Too Much Lagering?

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Jack Arandir

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Is it possible to lager a beer too much?
Every year I brew a festbier for drinking in the fall. Ideally I want to lager it 6-8 weeks to develop that rich lagery goodness.

This year's schedule forced me to push it earlier than normal, so I brewed one batch last week and I'll brew another in February. That's about 28-30 weeks of lagering. I'm driving oxygen to the bare minimum via closed transfer and spunding in kegs. But are there any downsides for lagering it that long?
 
Excessive aging does enhance oxygenation, loss of hops, and just general taste. I like a variety of beers, aged from 2 weeks (hefe) to Barleywine (aged years), but I wouldn't age a lager 7 months. Companies like Budweiser started the "brewed on" stamp because even with their equipment they can't keep it fresh that long.
 
I think it really depends on the style and method of storage. Are you keeping the beer in a vessel that is air tight, devoid of O2, and in a dark and cool place? All these factors will maintaining the beer better than say, leaving it in a glass carboy in a warm room in direct sunlight. Also, you may want to take the beer off any yeast if you intend to store it that long.

Over all though, I wouldnt worry too much about it, as long as you maintain storage conditions to the best of your ability. I frequently lager pale lagers for 3+ months waiting for space to open in the kegerator and havent noticed any negative impacts.
 
Yes. I think on our scale and setups, 3-4 weeks is tops for a lager period. What is more important is have processes to get clean wort into the fermenter and to transfer away from all of the yeast and sediment. Most of lagering is just gravity although some magic happens. But that magic can be covered up if the "stuff" is still suspended in the beer. Bottom line, from the mash onward get rid of the "stuff"! Try not to fall into the convenient thinking of "it doesn't matter"... If you are particular, it does.
 
I brew lagers pretty regularly and seem to always get a noticeable improvement in the beer around 8 weeks. I have fined after kegging and drank crystal clear beer after a week. I try that same beer each week thereafter and still like it most around week 7-8. I have conditioned without fining and tapped after 2, 3, 4, and 5 weeks and, invariably, I enjoy it most when it hits week 7-8. My wife notices the same change and I can 100% promise you that she doesn't know how long each one has been lagered 😂 @day_trippr, I would tend to agree with you on many styles. I think this is partly down to my tastes and what I want out of a lager. Not here to yuck anybody's yum but, for my palate, I have to disagree.

@Jack Arandir, I want to say "it depends" but...28-30 weeks is a long time. I'm pretty particular about purging kegs, purging transfer lines, doing closed transfers, etc but at the end of the day I still have a homebrew setup. If my IPAs are falling off some after 4-6 weeks then a beer lagered for 30 weeks is almost assuredly going to fall off too. Maybe it will still be okay after 30 weeks, but maybe it won't. If you like it at 6-8 weeks I would just drink it then and enjoy somebody else's festbier when the time comes :)

Also, that on tap and fermenting list you have... Nice! :mug:
 
Pale beers don't tend to age as well as darker beers, lager or ale. Thats due to the compounds in darker malts to resist oxidation off flavors. A pale lager such as a festbier while have peaked long before your 28-30 weeks is up.
 
I think it is interesting how the black box of lagering is different for everybody. What is actually happening after the beer is clear? I have gone to lagering my Belgian blondes and tripels 3-4 weeks as they taste more homogeneous. My guess is that it is actually yeast strain dependent. I have heard accounts of pressure speeding up the process as well.

Although one should ask how long the beer will be alive on tap? Playing the curve is important. For a party, you want to hit it on the head. If you have two months of a beer here and there then you might want to start earlier.
 
Yeah, I wish I had an answer for the lagering black box but the truth is I have no idea. I was just listening to Swifty and Amos from ABGB on the Craft Beer and Brewing podcast and Amos answered the same question with basically a shoulder shrug. It seems to change for them around the same 8 weeks but they don't know why. My senses tell me something is happening in that black box but I am currently too ignorant to know what. That's a curious hypothesis about the yeast strains but I'm far too ignorant in that department too. I can say that I see the same effect when I make blasphemous "lagers" from Bootleg's OSLO or Omega's Lutra. Does it taste exactly like a more traditional lager...no. Does it improve at 8 weeks with lagering...yes.

I typically do the same 3-4 weeks for my saisons. They drink fine after a couple of weeks. They pull together and drink much better after 3-4. Most other styles I drink and like as soon as they're clear. I guess that's the beauty of brewing to our preferences.

Yeah, that was part of my thought in terms of tapping it for a party, @Bassman2003. If Jack is planning this for a party then this beer is probably not going to land at the top of the curve like he'd want...so why wait 30 weeks. If he's drinking it for himself and likes it best at 6-8 weeks then also...why wait? In terms of drinking through the curve, I think about that all the time. I tell friends and the wife that if something is drinking really well right now then drink it! Otherwise, it's likely just sliding down that curve.
 
I mostly brew moderate gravity German Lagers for the last 5 years (Helles, Pils, Rauch etc) and I have found that there is a sweet spot for Lagering of 3-4 weeks after that it is diminishing returns. High gravity Lagers (Doppelbocks, Mai Bock, Spring Bock etc) can be Lagered for 6-8 months. This is what I have been doing to great success.
 
We can call "strategic drinking". Makes it sound official. Since I am a kool-aid drinking low oxygen brewer, I am always aware to time sitting anywhere, even in kegs. The forces of staling are working against us, especially 8 weeks out and beyond. It is all a balancing act which we love.
 
I primarily brew lagers. The only exception these days is 'British Strong Ales'. In general, my impression is that once the lager clears, it is at its peak. The only exceptions are beers like Eisbock which for me start getting optimal after about two years (or longer). My current Eisbock (17% ABV) was brewed two+ years ago, lagered for about 9 months, then ice condensed with further lagering.
 
Idealy, fresh is good, after the month or so of lagering, for lighter beers. But if keg is stored full, untapped and kept very cold, it should not decline much. However, once it is tapped, headspace is increased and tanked CO2 is introduced, flavor will decline.
 
Festbier has been meant historically to be lagered for half a year (from March to October). A prolonged impact of Lagering (whatever that impact brought about) was a signature feature of the style.
See in Krennmair's Historic German and Austrian Beer authentic historical recipes for a Wiener Lager of 1870 and an Oktoberfest of 1872. Both are identical in everything but strength (4.6% vs 6.1%) and Lagering length. For the Wiener, Lagering is 40 to 60 days. and for the Oktoberfest it's 6 months.
I've brewed both recipes. The beers taste notably differently, despite both being simple Vienna/Saazer SMASHes.
Although both beers are equal in bitterness (30 vs 33 IBU) the Oktoberfest tastes significantly sweeter because of the strength and particularly because of the aging ("hop loss"). It's probably exactly what the modern reinventions of the style try to achieve with adding a potpourry of Crystal malts.
 
Considering the original Oktoberfestbier was a Märzen, it would make sense that it was lagered for 6 months. The melenoidins could handle that much aging. However, today's Festbiers are essentially a bigger Helles, something that doesn't remain stable as long.
 
I normally only lager for a month. I have a Munich Dunkel on tap right now that was lagered longer, more like 10 weeks because I didn’t have a free tap. That one is phenominal - one of the best beers I ever brewed.
 
I make a lot of german styles and like others I think there's a point of peak flavor that only goes downhill with time past that point.

I find that point is different for every beer. The lighter color and lower abv styles being better younger.

For a pilsner helles and festbier I like 4-6 weeks. I have a pilsner entering week 4 right now. Basically as soon as it reaches bright clarity, its done for me.

For a Maibock, Marzen, and Dunkles Bock I like 6-8 weeks

For Doppelbock (and some ales like baltic porter, strong stout, and barleywines) I like 6-12 months depending on flavor
 
Contrary to what I had expected, I had an American light that peaked at 3 months of lagering. That was an awesome beer.
 
I lager every beer and all get better with the time.
My kegerator holds 4 kegs but has only 3 taps. This way the 4th beer lagers until it gets connected to the tap and then until it gets empty.
Lagers and ales go through the same cycle.

This Koelsch is still on tap as of 2023-Feb-03:

2022-Oct-25: 1qt starter
2022-Oct-27: started at OG=1.046, 67 F around 11.15am using 1qt starter and 6 gallons of water for LME
2022-Oct-28: G= 1,035 at 70F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Oct-29: G= 1,028 at 68F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Oct-30: G= 1,022 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Oct-31: G= 1,017 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-01: G= 1,016 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-04: G= 1,013 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-05: G= 1,012 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-06: G= 1,010 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-07: G= 1,009 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-09: G=1,009 at 66F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-11: G=1,008 at 67F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-13: FG=1,007 at 66F in the morning (per TILT)
2022-Nov-17: kegged
2022-Dec-16: On middle tap.
 
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Here is a page from a 1966 employee training book from one of the major US brewers. At the time, they were running 90 days from brewing until final product.

On my own lagers, I like 90 days too for most styles. They really seem to come into their own after this time. This is obviously before the time that commercial brewers began speeding up the lagering process. Love them bean counters, eh?

IMG_3307.jpg
 
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