Too much azacca!

[charliethebum]

I'm working my way through a keg of azacca/centennial hopbursted pale ale (predominantly azacca) and I'm getting a really sharp, astringent bite from it. Almost a chalky, tannic quality. Anyone else experience this from these hops? It's my second time experimenting with them, the first being a SMaSH ipa which I got the same sharp edge with. I ended up blending that with a galaxy SMaSH and it turned out pretty nice. I really want to like this hop because they smell great and are pretty inexpensive. Maybe I just need to use them in smaller quantities?

 

[aprichman]

I'm working my way through a keg of azacca/centennial hopbursted pale ale (predominantly azacca) and I'm getting a really sharp, astringent bite from it. Almost a chalky, tannic quality. Anyone else experience this from these hops? It's my second time experimenting with them, the first being a SMaSH ipa which I got the same sharp edge with. I ended up blending that with a galaxy SMaSH and it turned out pretty nice. I really want to like this hop because they smell great and are pretty inexpensive. Maybe I just need to use them in smaller quantities?

Azacca always seemed spicy to me... I have a pound that I haven't opened yet. I might just use them for bittering additions.

 

[Leapsandbounds]

I’m a big fan of Azacca. I use it to make a Pale ale that everyone loves. I make 2.5 gallon batches and dry hop with an oz. smells wonderful. I haven’t noticed any strange flavors from it though. However, my palate isn’t very refined

 

[JohnSand]

I've read about that sharpness, two recipies I've read recommend some crystal to balance it.
I have half a pound I'm planning to brew a pale.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I actually just read this the other day...

https://spikebrewing.com/blogs/ask-a-pro/bittering-additions

The brewer talks about how in his experience, hops with a high cohumulone percentage can create a very sharp/harsh bitterness. His specific example is azacca.

I just did a citra azacca pale ale last month and it was actually quite pleasant. But it was only 40 IBUs and i only used .25oz of azacca at 60 min.

My guess is this is what you're experiencing.

 

[ong]

Hmm. I did a hoppy 5 gallon pilsner with 8 oz of Azacca (most of it in whirlpool and dry hop), and didn’t get any of that. I didn’t get as much hop flavor as I was hoping for, either.

 

[charliethebum]

I actually just read this the other day...

https://spikebrewing.com/blogs/ask-a-pro/bittering-additions

The brewer talks about how in his experience, hops with a high cohumulone percentage can create a very sharp/harsh bitterness. His specific example is azacca.

I just did a citra azacca pale ale last month and it was actually quite pleasant. But it was only 40 IBUs and i only used .25oz of azacca at 60 min.

My guess is this is what you're experiencing.

That sounds like exactly it. Interesting stuff thanks!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Hmm. I did a hoppy 5 gallon pilsner with 8 oz of Azacca (most of it in whirlpool and dry hop), and didn’t get any of that. I didn’t get as much hop flavor as I was hoping for, either.

I would think that's why you didn't get it...? The article references using those particular hops as bittering additions. If you only used a small amount for bittering, it might not have affected you. Like on mine, I used a minimal amount so it came out good.

 

[charliethebum]

I’m a big fan of Azacca. I use it to make a Pale ale that everyone loves. I make 2.5 gallon batches and dry hop with an oz. smells wonderful. I haven’t noticed any strange flavors from it though. However, my palate isn’t very refined

haha my palate is about as refined as a chunk of iron ore the bite I'm getting is unmistakable. mind sharing your pale recipe? I love tinkering with my APA

 

[Leapsandbounds]

haha my palate is about as refined as a chunk of iron ore the bite I'm getting is unmistakable. mind sharing your pale recipe? I love tinkering with my APA

Sure, it’s pretty basic. Also my brewhouse efficiency is terrible (55%) so you might have to adjust grain amounts to reach your desired ABV. Also, I only do a 30 minute boil.

Recipe is for 2.5 gallons.
6 lbs American 2 row
4 ounces 40L crystal (sometimes I use 15L)

Mash 152 for 60-90min

.2 ounce Azacca 30 min
.3 ounces Azacca 15 min
1 ounce Azacca 0 min
1 ounce Azacca dry hop 5 days from bottling.

US-05
I usually shot for 2.4 volumes co2.
OG 1.051
FG 1.010-1.008
About 31 IBUs
ABV ~5.4%

Edited to add volume.

 

[charliethebum]

View attachment 592379

Sure, it’s pretty basic. Also my brewhouse efficiency is terrible (55%) so you might have to adjust grain amounts to reach your desired ABV. Also, I only do a 30 minute boil.

6 lbs American 2 row
4 ounces 40L crystal (sometimes I use 15L)

Mash 152 for 60-90min

.2 ounce Azacca 30 min
.3 ounces Azacca 15 min
1 ounce Azacca 0 min
1 ounce Azacca dry hop 5 days from bottling.

US-05
I usually shot for 2.4 volumes co2.
OG 1.051
FG 1.010-1.008
About 31 IBUs
ABV ~5.4%

Thanks that's a nice looking beer. Sometimes simple is best

 

[Leapsandbounds]

Thanks that's a nice looking beer. Sometimes simple is best

You’re welcome. I forgot to mention that’s for 2.5 gallons.

 

[ncbrewer]

I actually just read this the other day...

https://spikebrewing.com/blogs/ask-a-pro/bittering-additions

The brewer talks about how in his experience, hops with a high cohumulone percentage can create a very sharp/harsh bitterness. His specific example is azacca.

I looked up Azacca and Cascade on the Yakima Valley Hops website. It shows Azacca at 28 - 33%, and Cascade at 33 - 40%. Very different from what is shown in this article (Azacca 45%, Cascade low 20%). I wonder if it actually varies that much, or if one of these sources is wrong (or if I'm misreading the info).

 

[Leapsandbounds]

I looked up Azacca and Cascade on the Yakima Valley Hops website. It shows Azacca at 28 - 33%, and Cascade at 33 - 40%. Very different from what is shown in this article (Azacca 45%, Cascade low 20%). I wonder if it actually varies that much, or if one of these sources is wrong (or if I'm misreading the info).

Could be Harvest year changes. I know AA can vary.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I looked up Azacca and Cascade on the Yakima Valley Hops website. It shows Azacca at 28 - 33%, and Cascade at 33 - 40%. Very different from what is shown in this article (Azacca 45%, Cascade low 20%). I wonder if it actually varies that much, or if one of these sources is wrong (or if I'm misreading the info).

That's a good point. I didn't dig into the amount in Azacca, I just remembered reading the article.

This says 38-45%

Looks like it may just vary a bit.

 

[GoeHaarden]

OP. Just curious, what was your IBUs?

I have a half pound of Azacca and was planning some sort of IPA, bittering with some left over Challenger. Targeting 75 IBUs but it seems like it maybe be too much!? Maybe I'll bump up the crystal..

 

[ong]

OP. Just curious, what was your IBUs?

I have a half pound of Azacca and was planning some sort of IPA, bittering with some left over Challenger. Targeting 75 IBUs but it seems like it maybe be too much!? Maybe I'll bump up the crystal..

Ew, don’t bump up the crystal. The way I figure, IBUs calculated after the boil don’t count, so just load up Azacca in the whirlpool and fermenter. I’ve found it to not be a super pungent hop (which makes sense — subdued stone fruit, rather than a big tropical burst), so use plenty.

 

[Kickass]

Ew, don’t bump up the crystal

Yeah, don't bump your unknown amount of crystal with an equally unknown amount of crystal. That will, without a doubt, create an undrinkable beer. Hahaha, the crystal vitriol.

I just bottled an all azacca session IPA calculated at 41 IBUs. Going into the bottle it was pleasant, not sharp or astringent but it did seem to be a little more bitter than an identical session IPA brewed with NZ hops rather than azacca. I'll have to wait a couple more weeks to get another taste.

 

[charliethebum]

OP. Just curious, what was your IBUs?

I have a half pound of Azacca and was planning some sort of IPA, bittering with some left over Challenger. Targeting 75 IBUs but it seems like it maybe be too much!? Maybe I'll bump up the crystal..

I was shooting for around 50 ibu, almost entirely late additions.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Ew, don’t bump up the crystal. The way I figure, IBUs calculated after the boil don’t count, so just load up Azacca in the whirlpool and fermenter. I’ve found it to not be a super pungent hop (which makes sense — subdued stone fruit, rather than a big tropical burst), so use plenty.

Ha. I was only talking a few percentage points to prevent it from drying out too much!

Hahaha, the crystal vitriol.

Haha. Right. On second though I might just use it as my base malt.

Thanks for the both of your concerns though!

I just bottled an all azacca session IPA calculated at 41 IBUs...

I was shooting for around 50 ibu, almost entirely late additions.

Thanks. I may back down mine a little.

 

[ong]

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to be vitriolic. I just think crystal malt turns IPAs into sticky sweet muck. I gave up on it years ago and never looked back, and I have a hard time with most commercial IPAs. I don’t like them bone-dry (necessarily), but crystal adds flavors that I think benefit only a very few styles.