toasting two row in the oven

[Owly055]

I'm currently in the process of toasting 2 pounds of 2 row in the oven for tonight's brew. In a 2.5 gallon brew it will make up about 1/3 of the grain bill. The process I'm using is simple.... 2 pounds of grain in a lasagna pan..... I just run a spatula through it every few minutes to keep it turning as it browns. I'll be darkening it quite a bit, though nothing remotely approaching roast barley...... I'm shooting for quite a bit of color. The smell is heavenly!! Current visual color observation is slightly darker than CR60 (I have a bag of that for reference). I'm shooting for somewhere closer to 120-150.

Any thoughts on fermentability and diastatic power? My plan is to use some amylase in the mash..... I'd be interested in hearing accounts of personal experience doing this. I'm assuming that the flavor contribution from toasting will be pretty positive.... I'm hoping for a bready toasty flavor.

2.5 gallon brew:

4 pounds of two row
2 pounds of toasted
.25 pounds of CR 150
.125 pounds of smoked malt
.125 pounds roast barley
1 gram of crushed juniper berries

hopped with Northern Brewer and Hallertau.

Wintertime in Montana..... Plenty of time to play with this kind of thing. Blowing about 60 mph out there temp about 50F, it hit 65 yesterday, and a few days ago it was down around zero...never a dull moment. We've been rocketing from sub zero temps to the 50's and back and forth most of January with nice weather predicted as far out as the reports go (nice by my definition). I'm concerned about moisture in the mountains... We really haven't had enough this year.


H.W.

 

[Owly055]

I think I took it a bit too far.... next time I'll stop at about the same color as CR60. Efficiency was very poor... 67% Initial tasting showed not enough smoke and not enough juniper.......... You have to start somewhere. Color was stout / porter. It think toasting beyond a particular point brought out some bitterness....... another reason not to toast as much. My toast ended up at around the same appearance as CR 75, or just a tad darker.

Clearly I needed to end things while it still had that lovely fresh baked bread aroma... The real science is in temperature / time... longer time lower temp gives one effect, shorter time higher temp another. The ideal toasting environment would be a rotating drum in a closely temp controlled environment. My guess from this experiment is that a master maltster probably relies not just on instrumentation but on his nose as well. The difference between art and science.

H.W.

 

[thaymond]

Did you let the malt sit for a few days after you toasted? I read that the darker you toast, the more necessary it is to let it sit. There was a huge difference in astringency from my 1lb of MO in a "right in the mash" batch vs. The "bench warmer" batch. I toasted 2 lbs and split the grain bill of 2 full batches. 1lb in each. The Bench warmer sat for 2 weeks before I used it. Mine was a light toast too, only 275 for 25—30 minutes. Youre right though, the kitchen smells magical when you toast your own.

 

[seanybubbles]

Having tried roasting 2 row several times, I have never gotten the flavour or colour I wanted. I find using either Maris otter or another specialty malt like biscuit gives you more of the flavour you might be looking for. It smells great though!

 

[govner1]

If your shooting for 160°L your diastatic power will be essentially "0".
Caramelized grain will add color, flavor, & body but no fermentables.

 

[Owly055]

I toasted another two pounds for my next brew which will be around the weekend.... I stopped this at a lighter color, and it will have some time to age...... I hope aging in a zip lock is acceptable.

 

[TheDudeLebowski]

I don't know if I'm spreading misinformation but I think you want to age in something that will let a little bit of air flow like a brown paper bag. I've been wanting to experiment with toasting grain but haven't gotten around to it:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-4.html

I think there were a couple of articles years ago in BYO repeating this information.

PS - MT is probably one of my favorite states I've ever visited. Very jealous.

 

[thaymond]

I toasted another two pounds for my next brew which will be around the weekend.... I stopped this at a lighter color, and it will have some time to age...... I hope aging in a zip lock is acceptable.

Open the bag and let the bad boy breathe a little. Maybe store in a loosely closed paper bag.

 

[thaymond]

Sorry double post

 

[Owly055]

Open the bag and let the bad boy breathe a little. Maybe store in a loosely closed paper bag.

I'll take that advice............


H.W.

 

[stpug]

Crack open some of those kernels and look at the interior color of the grain. Generally, it's much darker than the outside husk and is more true to the types of flavors it will create. I would say most times I toast grain it's to get upto the amber malt stage or less, and the outside husk has only barely changed color. Varying the temp and time can play a big role; lower heat for longer time can get you closer to a munich character; moderate heat with short-to-medium length can get you in the victory/biscuit-to-amber malt realm; and moderate-high heat and short/medium length will get you to brown or more. And, yes, letting the grains vent a bit helps with their character - there's no harm in waiting a week or more, but a couple days should be minimum to allow them to offgas.

 

[Owly055]

I don't know if I'm spreading misinformation but I think you want to age in something that will let a little bit of air flow like a brown paper bag. I've been wanting to experiment with toasting grain but haven't gotten around to it:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-4.html

I think there were a couple of articles years ago in BYO repeating this information.

PS - MT is probably one of my favorite states I've ever visited. Very jealous.

You can live anywhere you want.........But there's a price. Where I live that price is wind and cold. The price is that you can't make the kind of money you can in the city.... not even close...........It's a price that's too high for most people. My priorities are different.

H.W.

 

[electric_beer]

All you need to know about home roasting is here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/home-roasting-expert-needed-138483/

 

[Owly055]

This is mostly about making crystal malts at home........ not what I'm trying to achieve. I'm looking for a toasty flavor, but not unfermentable sugars. Considering the amount of crystal I use in a typical brew, making my own crystal would make very little sense in terms of economics. I doubt that as 10% or less of the grist, the difference between crystal made from MO or Harrington would be detectable.

Being in Montana, and surrounded by grain growers, I inevitably will end up buying a few hundred pounds of Harrington up around Fairfield or Conrad....... or closer to home, just for the pleasure of malting at home...... About as close as I can come to a completely home grown beer.... Home malting and home grown hops. This summer I had malting barley growing within a mile of home!! Grown by a friend I have a relationship with such that if I were to ask, he would probably just give me a few hundred pounds............ I do a lot for him.


H.W.