Toasted Malt

[Tobor_8thMan]

While pedaling my bicycle my mind is occupied with other things probably as a self preservation in not acknowledging how many more miles I have to pedal or how long I've been pedaling especially when it's brutally hot and humid outside (seems no one is outside but me).

Anyway, during a recent bicycle ride my mind returned to my malt extract brewing days. There was a recipe from a local home brew store that used toasted (toasted in one's oven) malt. The toasted malt was steeped for a brief amount of time then the malt extract was added, etc. This was a very enjoyable malt extract brew.

As I pedaled I got to thinking "What is an all grain equivalent for toasted malt? Biscuit? Or, some other malt?"

Checking BeerSmith I see

For Toasted malt (I hope Brad doesn't mind me copying and pasting as I don't believe malt descriptions are copyrighted.)
"Toasted malt can be made at home by toasting pale malted barley for 10-15 minutes at 350 F. Similar to Biscuit or Victory malt - this malt adds reddish/orange color and improved body without sweetness. Toasted flavor. Mashing required to avoid haze."

For Biscuit malt
"Use for English ales, brown ales and porters.
Adds a biscuit like flavor and aroma.
Can be used as a substitute for toasted malt."

For Victory malt
"Toasted malt that adds a 'Biscuit' or toasted flavor to English ales.
Use for: Nut brown ales, porters"

To me these descriptions are iffy because of the "Similar" and "Can Be".

IMO, if Biscuit malt is a substitute for toasted malt then the description is "Is used as a substitute for toasted malt". Same for the toasted malt description. "Biscuit or Victory malt are substitutes" instead of "Similar to Biscuit or Victory malt".

My question. Are Biscuit or Victory malt valid direct substitutes for toasted malt?

Thanks.

 

[Robert65]

There's a whole lot of room for variety in "toasted malt." Sure, biscuit and Victory are on the spectrum, but I don't think they're even substitutes for each other. Different flavor profiles. If you're really interested in this, Randy Mosher's book Radical Brewing has a section on toasting and roasting, with guidelines for times and temperatures to get different ranges of color and different flavor characteristics. I've tried this a few times with Pils or brewers malt to get something in the biscuit/Victory color range, but different flavor from either. (The only drawback of home toasting is, you might get something you really love, and never be able to replicate it!)

 

[brewbama]

I recommend you brew a recipe using Biscuit. Then brew the same recipe replacing Biscuit with Victory. Then toast some malt and substitute the Biscuit and Victory in your recipe. If you can tell a difference they are not substitutes in your brewery. If you can’t tell a difference they are substitutes in your brewery.

Don’t use BeerSmith or a malster’s description or another brewer as your source of information. If you ask me, they’re close enough and I’d substitute them without a second thought. But YMMV.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

There's a whole lot of room for variety in "toasted malt." Sure, biscuit and Victory are on the spectrum, but I don't think they're even substitutes for each other. Different flavor profiles. If you're really interested in this, Randy Mosher's book Radical Brewing has a section on toasting and roasting, with guidelines for times and temperatures to get different ranges of color and different flavor characteristics. I've tried this a few times with Pils or brewers malt to get something in the biscuit/Victory color range, but different flavor from either. (The only drawback of home toasting is, you might get something you really love, and never be able to replicate it!)

Thanks. I have Randy's book. Time to visit the brewing library.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I recommend you brew a recipe using Biscuit. Then brew the same recipe replacing Biscuit with Victory. Then toast some malt and substitute the Biscuit and Victory in your recipe. If you can tell a difference they are not substitutes in your brewery. If you can’t tell a difference they are substitutes in your brewery.

Don’t use BeerSmith or a malster’s description or another brewer as your source of information. If you ask me, they’re close enough and I’d substitute them without a second thought. But YMMV.

Well... I considered doing as described. However, I'm going thru the Cream Ale brewing cycles/versions and have just about had enough Cream Ales for quite a while. I don't want the same turn off or "I've had enough of this style!" with the toasted ale that I remember.

 

[brewbama]

That is a good point. The old ‘change one variable at a time’ can be monotonous. ...but then again before drinking only the beer I brew, I used to drink the same beer for about a decade so I can handle the same recipe over and over. I just completed a series of the same recipe Pale Ale substituting only aroma and flavor hops in each batch. I dialed in my system to a T and got some great drinking beers out of the exercise. Really glad I did it.

 

[RM-MN]

Well... I considering doing as described. However, I'm going thru the Cream Ale brewing cycles/versions and have just about had enough Cream Ales for quite a while. I don't want the same turn off or "I've had enough of this style!" with the toasted ale that I remember.

First off, pedal harder so you don't have the time and energy to be thinking so hard.

Second off, you aren't thinking enough about samples. You don't have to make 20 gallons of each beer to be able to sample the differences. Do a small batch of each beer using Biscuit, Victory, and home toasted malt. Make another couple using home toasted malt to see if you can duplicate the flavors from one batch to another. With that you will know if there is enough difference to be worth the effort of toasting your own of if perhaps you will be satisfied with using Biscuit or Victory like most of us do.

 

[dwhite60]

I had read that you should let toasted malt rest for a week or two in a paper bag after toasting. Something about harshness from freshly toasted. Here it is.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/experiment/toasting-your-own-malt

All the Best,
D. White

 

[okiedog]

I had read that you should let toasted malt rest for a week or two in a paper bag after toasting. Something about harshness from freshly toasted. Here it is.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/experiment/toasting-your-own-malt

All the Best,
D. White

I have never noticed any harshness from freshly toasted malt or grain. That is usually a concern when making roasted grains, ie: roasted Barley, Brown malt, chocolate or Black malt. I routinely toast some malt or flaked grains for some of my darker beer, to add a bit of toasted, nutty flavor. It's a quick and easy process, and I just dump the freshly toasted grains right into the mash.