Tips on Wood Aging.

[NewBrewB]

I am working on an extract kit for vanilla bean whiskey barrel aged imperial stout.

The kit came with a toasted oak stave, which I am soaking in whiskey for a week until I transfer to secondary, at which time, the stave will be suspended from a sanitized wire or string.

 

[mkitch]

I am working on an extract kit for vanilla bean whiskey barrel aged imperial stout.

The kit came with a toasted oak stave, which I am soaking in whiskey for a week until I transfer to secondary, at which time, the stave will be suspended from a sanitized wire or string.

If I like the way mine comes out, maybe we can trade a bottle for a bottle to see which technique we like better!

 

[NewBrewB]

Awesome. I should be kegging this on about April 01 (No April Fool's Day prank here) so it would be carbed a week or so after that, unless I use CO2 to carb... then only 2-3 days.

Actually, this kit did say to let it age at least 30 days and longer if possible, but I will probably try it much sooner than that. If it's good, I'd be glad to send a bottle your way.

 

[keesh]

Hey since this is an old thread I won't be surprised if no one answers, but: does anyone know if it is legit to use wood cubes/chunks/chips made for smoking, in beer? Do they come untoasted? Are there any additives I'd have to be aware of that would cause problems?

 

[NewBrewB]

Hey since this is an old thread I won't be surprised if no one answers, but: does anyone know if it is legit to use wood cubes/chunks/chips made for smoking, in beer? Do they come untoasted? Are there any additives I'd have to be aware of that would cause problems?

Is there an "ingredients" list on the packaging? I would think they would have "not for ingestion" or something if it was dangerous to use in a way other than smoking. I'm sure this has been discussed on here somewhere... hmmm

 

[mkitch]

Don't know the answer to this for sure, but I would think they would not be able to put any harsh/dangerous chemicals on anything designed to be used to cook meat that you will be eating. If you are not planning to soak them in any alcohol, I would definitely sanitize them first.

If it's a smoked character your looking for, have you considered using a small amount of smoked malt?

 

[keesh]

Don't know the answer to this for sure, but I would think they would not be able to put any harsh/dangerous chemicals on anything designed to be used to cook meat that you will be eating. If you are not planning to soak them in any alcohol, I would definitely sanitize them first.

If it's a smoked character your looking for, have you considered using a small amount of smoked malt?

I'm actually not looking for smoked character, but the only thing I can find that is maplewood is designated for smokers. Thanks for the tips everyone!

 

[smokinghole]

There was a recent article in ASBC's newest journal that demonstrated the difference between American MT and French HT oak chips on a beers flavor. It just so happened that the HT in both instances had more of the desirable flavor compounds giving the creamy, coconut, and vanilla flavors. The MT of both wood types had more burnt and maybe less desirable notes contributed to both beers. The results are surprising to me a little I figured you'd get more burnt wood flavors from the HT oak. The HT had less flavors over all but also had as much or more of the flavors often looked for in wood aging.

 

[BARBrewer]

There was a recent article in ASBC's newest journal that demonstrated the difference between American MT and French HT oak chips on a beers flavor. It just so happened that the HT in both instances had more of the desirable flavor compounds giving the creamy, coconut, and vanilla flavors. The MT of both wood types had more burnt and maybe less desirable notes contributed to both beers. The results are surprising to me a little I figured you'd get more burnt wood flavors from the HT oak. The HT had less flavors over all but also had as much or more of the flavors often looked for in wood aging.

I believe the vanillin compound is created when either the lignin or tannin in the wood are burnt. Thats why whiskey uses a char rather than a toast, to get that big vanilla flavor.

 

[BARBrewer]

I'm actually not looking for smoked character, but the only thing I can find that is maplewood is designated for smokers. Thanks for the tips everyone!

What do you expect to get out of the maple? I would imagine the flavor would be sort of neutral.

 

[Whippy]

Most of these guidelines I would agree with, but I must say that I feel months on oak cubes would be too much unless you want the oak to be the highlight of your beer.

I have had 5 US gal of Old Ale (OG: 1.078) on an ounce of medium toast Hungarian cubes for 9 days and I can already pick out the flavor. I also have molasses (8 oz) in this beer and at this point I can taste both, so will be removing the cubes within 3 days or so.

I suppose the length of time on oak cubes will vary greatly depending on the style of beer you are brewing, as you will "need" to balance your oak with the other ingredients in the beer.

The best advice I have seen in this thread is to taste your beer frequently! Use the available guidelines to help you plan your timeframe, but certainly don't just put your beer on oak and leave it for 4 months just because you read it on the internet

 

[smokinghole]

What flavor are you picking out? The flavor of wood or the flavors associated with wood aging? Its my experience using cubes that you can get the straight up wood flavor fast but if you want the complexity that wood aging offers you need to go longer than 9 days. I left my old ale at about the same gravity with cubes for six months and it is not the featured flavor.

 

[Subsailor]

I have made an Oak Aged Stout, partial grain recipe 3 times this past year using 6" of med. toast American Oak spiral in the secondary for 2 weeks. Me and my sons and my brewing buddies are addicted to the stuff.

 

[Whippy]

That's interesting, smokinghole, thanks for sharing your experience! I feel I like where my beer is right now, so I'm going to pull it this time. I may well rack half of it and continue to age on the oak so that I may compare. ... nice!

 

[mkitch]

how did your beer come out? I wasn't completely satisfied with mine, but it did win our local homebrew contest. I always think it can be improved.

 

[Whippy]

I am ageing mine for a year if I can wait that long, so stop tempting me! :cross: From the samples I feel it is going to be just what I was looking for. I must say I have never even tried a "real" old ale, so I have no idea how this will compare, but it should be pretty much what my brain was looking for. I am excited to see how it will be with carbonation and with age, as it WAS hot with alcohol at bottling. Last friday was 1 month after bottling; I told myself I would try one after 6 months out of curiosity.

When the old ale was bottled, I brewed a brown porter over the yeast cake. When I drink the porter now, I can taste hints of the old ale in the background (along with the faint oak)...really cool how that turned out! I never bothered keeping half on the oak.

It is very nice to hear of your success, mkitch! Congratulations! It is also nice to hear that you learned from the beer

 

[tgmartin000]

I've got an imperial brown that's been in secondary for about 4 months. I plan on adding 2oz medium American cubes for 4-5 months. I've been searching for this thread for a couple weeks now! Another vote for a sticky.

 

[iheartcraftbeer]

I plan on doing a clone of KBS and I'm unsure about the timing of all the secondary ingredients. I am going to use coarsely cracked coffee beans and a couple vanilla beans, as well as oak cubes that have soaked in bourbon. Should I add the coffee beans and vanilla first for a week or two, then add the cubes? Or should I just put all three ingredients in the carboy at the same time and let it sit for a few months?

 

[flanneltrees804]

I looked through the thread and didn't see anything about using staves but I think they could be really useful. I am about to come into 6 carboys and want to start developing a good sour program and do some blending in the future. I found a place that sells barrels, heads and staves so I can just get a stave or two, cut them down to just a few inches and put them right into secondary... anyone have feedback? Bad idea? Waste of time? Better than sliced bread?

 

[iheartcraftbeer]

I plan on doing a clone of KBS and I'm unsure about the timing of all the secondary ingredients. I am going to use coarsely cracked coffee beans and a couple vanilla beans, as well as oak cubes that have soaked in bourbon. Should I add the coffee beans and vanilla first for a week or two, then add the cubes? Or should I just put all three ingredients in the carboy at the same time and let it sit for a few months?

Any thoughts on this from the gallery?

 

[milleniumsmoker]

I would oak first, add the coffee when bottling. Vanilla will depend, if you are using beans then I would add them after oaking but before bottling. If you are adding extract then add it with the coffee at bottling.

 

[Gofastr1]

This thread has been an excellent resource. But I have some additional questions regarding an English-style barleywine, I am considering aging.

OG - 1.104
FG - 1.024
IBU - 85 (East Kents and Brewers Gold for bittering; East Kents for aroma/flavor)
SRM - 14

It has been sitting in secondary since late May with the plan to bottle it in September or October for Christmas gifts. I've stolen a couple of tastes from the carboy and it reminds me of a smooth scotch, which initially put this idea in my head; this thread only sealed the deal. The plan would be to rack off 1-1.5 gallons of the brew in to a couple growlers during bottling and age on oak chips for a couple months longer. These would be a limited spring 2012 release for my nearest and dearest. I want a slight to medium effect from the oak. I've already settled on French oak (unless anyone wants to convince me otherwise), but I want to know what kind of char I should get so I can my desired effect for this beer. Also, I was thinking about 0.5 oz/gallon. Is that a good guess?

I know I have lots of time to figure this out, but I'm the kind of person who likes to have all of his bases covered ahead of time. Thank you for all the work put in thus far and all the answers I am (hopefully) to get.

Never bumped a year old post - but it IS a barleywine... what did you go with and how did it turn out? I've got 5g of barleywine cool conditioning for about 2 months now, am going to oak age all or part using spirals, and appreciate thoughts on what oak to use (American or French, and toast level) and how much.

My barleywine is an all grain recipe based roughly on what I could learn of Old Foghorn and Alaskan's Pilot Series BW:
OG: 1.113
FG: 1.026
IBU: ~ 65 (all US cascade)
Dry hopped w/2.5 oz mix of US and NZ cascade.

In spite of how big this is (almost 12% ABV), this was nicely balanced at time of dry hopping.

I was thinking about starting with 3/4oz of rum soaked French spiral, medium toast, (plan to drink the soaking rum, not add to beer) and letting it condition on the spiral for another few months before bottling, but LHB shop suggested American medium toast. I want very subtle oak flavors, so if more oak is necessary later, I'd add it... but that might try my patience!

 

[NuclearRich]

I just wanted to thank the OP, this whole thread was a useful introduction to wood aging.

 

[tgmartin000]

Just wanted to chime in here....on 1/1/12 I brewed Janet's brown ale...sort of. I overshot the og to about 1.092. On about may 1, I added 1.75 oz med toast cubes. Bottled on 9/2/12. Drank my first after about a month in the fridge.

I've only had that one, but I only got slight to negligible oak. But only having one so far, the verdict is still very out. Excellent beer, regardless.

 

[scaesare]

Good thread.

I just bought a 6gal oak barrel that had been used to hold bourbon and to age beers and a barley wine. Not sure what type of oak.

I have a smoked porter in glass for a 2 week primary fermentation right now. Thinking of a one week secondary in the barrel after conditioning it with some bourbon.

Will report back when done...

-sc

 

[smokinghole]

Good thread.

I just bought a 6gal oak barrel that had been used to hold bourbon and to age beers and a barley wine. Not sure what type of oak.

I have a smoked porter in glass for a 2 week primary fermentation right now. Thinking of a one week secondary in the barrel after conditioning it with some bourbon.

Will report back when done...

-sc

Well if it had bourbon in there then it has to be white american oak.

 

[scaesare]

Well if it had bourbon in there then it has to be white american oak.

Ah, ok... didn't know that. Thanks.

of course, the barrel was owned by "some guy" (a home brewer) on craigslist... and he was the one who kept bourbon in it.. so I hope HE knew that.

-sc

 

[smokinghole]

It's probably still white American oak, but who knows if it came from a homebrewer. The legal definition of bourbon does specify a charred new white American oak barrel though.

 

[Oceantendency]

I looked through the thread and didn't see anything about using staves but I think they could be really useful. I am about to come into 6 carboys and want to start developing a good sour program and do some blending in the future. I found a place that sells barrels, heads and staves so I can just get a stave or two, cut them down to just a few inches and put them right into secondary... anyone have feedback? Bad idea? Waste of time? Better than sliced bread?

One of my LBHS carried a French Oak Stave, I bought the last one. I toasted by soaking in water then placing on Aluminum Foil, baked in the Oven for about 15-20 min @ 170*, 2 weeks in my secondary aging an Old Ale; it gave a beautifuly smooth toasted vanilla tinge to it and was outstanding. I soaked in water, dried out and placed in a zip lock. I reused the stave for my Aigi Dubbley recipe. But since it was used before I soaked again for awhile in fresh filtered water, toasted @170* for about 15 min and placed in my secondary for 3 weeks. Haven't cracked open a bottle yet, but tasted good upon bottling. I'll know come Jan/Feb when it starts getting ready.

I was contemplating toasting some Apricot or Necterine Wood and soaking in some Cinnamon Whiskey before toasting and placing into my Fall Harvest Saison. I might attempt on some straight base malt as an experiment. I could just keep some wort from a starter to experiment with.

 

[millsbrew]

Is there more information on maintaining a barrel? I am in the process of buying one but will not be able to use it for a month or two.

Thanks

 

[Jipper]

http://morewinemaking.com/articles/Oak_barrel_care_guide

Cheers!

 

[millsbrew]

Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[TxBigHops]

Fantastic thread! So much info, although the OP seems to be blowing off spirals, which are now seeming to be quite popular. Is there a consensus on how long to leave the beer on them? Minimum? Maximum?

I'm just about to rack my RIS after 4 weeks in primary. I have one med toast American oak spiral that has been soaking in bourbon for two weeks. RIS has an FG of 1.026 and is about 9.5% ABV. Suggestions? Four weeks on the oak, or longer??? I'm patient, as I don't plan to drink any of these until my birthday in November. Just want the beer to be it's best, whenever that will be.

 

[mtnagel]

I've only used a spiral once, so I'm definitely no expert, but I did 3 months for 1 spiral in 3 gallons. I tasted it a few times throughout and at bottling and at no point did I think the oak flavor was overpowering. It's been in a bottle for almost a month and I haven't tried one yet. So take that for what it's worth.

 

[ArcLight]

I've only used a spiral once, so I'm definitely no expert, but I did 3 months for 1 spiral in 3 gallons. I tasted it a few times throughout and at bottling and at no point did I think the oak flavor was overpowering. It's been in a bottle for almost a month and I haven't tried one yet. So take that for what it's worth.

3 months for a spiral? And not over oaked?
A spiral has more surface area than an ounce of oak cubes.

I experimented with different oaks.
1 ounce of medium toast American oak in 12 ounces of Bourbon for 42 days (6 weeks) had a very strong oak taste that took many months to mellow out.

Maybe the Bourbon did a better job of extracting the tannins than your beer, but 3 months with a spiral sounds like a recipe for over oaking.

The golden rule of any additive to beer is:
Taste it until you like it, then age it or keg/bottle it.

 

[mtnagel]

I did taste it every few weeks.

I also have an imperial porter sitting on 2 oz of cubes for almost 2 months. Last time I tried it, it doesn't have too much oak.

Maybe I can't taste oak

Edit: and now I reread your post and found another post from you and you added the bourbon to the beer. I put the spiral in port wine for a few weeks and only added the spiral to the beer for 3 months and threw out the port. Then I added new port in the beer to taste at bottling. I can see how the alcohol you used to soak the spiral in would extract out a lot of the oakiness. But it seems the beer didn't extract out as much from the spiral after it was in the port.

 

[TxBigHops]

Thanks for the input guys. My spiral is in a ziplock bag with only 3-4 oz of bourbon, and has been in it for just two weeks. I will probably add the bourbon to the beer with the spiral. Thinking I will taste it after 2-3 weeks and go from there. I don't necessarily want tons of oak flavor, so thinking 4-6 weeks max for the profile I'm looking for. Then the RIS will be bottled to age another few months before drinking this winter.

 

[mtnagel]

Sounds like you should be cautious adding the bourbon the spiral was soaking in. If it were me, I'd remove the spiral from the bourbon and only add the spiral, but save the bourbon it was soaking in. Then taste the beer along the way to make sure it didn't become too oaky. Then if you want more bourbon/oak flavor you can add it at bottling to taste.

 

[TxBigHops]

Sounds like you should be cautious adding the bourbon the spiral was soaking in. If it were me, I'd remove the spiral from the bourbon and only add the spiral, but save the bourbon it was soaking in. Then taste the beer along the way to make sure it didn't become too oaky. Then if you want more bourbon/oak flavor you can add it at bottling to taste.

Sounds reasonable. I guess I can always add it in later, but I can't take it back out! I'll also taste the bourbon to see what flavors it has absorbed.

 

[mtnagel]

Correct. Good idea.