Thoughts on pH Buffer 5.2

[hoptualBrew]

I have been brewing all grain for about 8 months now and have yet to reach over 70% efficiency. My normal efficiency is between 60-65% and has puzzled me until a recent conversation with my LHBS owner where he pointed out the probably alkalinity of my brewing water. I use water from a Glacier water filter machine at the local supermarket and didn't (and still don't know) the actual pH of the water.

The LHBS owner suggested I use pH Buffer 5.2 in my water. Just wanting to get some feedback to see if it is worth using or if other acid inducing methods are superior?

By the way, I cannot believe it has taken me 8 months of all grain brewing to finally bring in a water sample to a local water systems store to get analyzed. I called and found they test the water for free and free print outs. I will be taking samples in each time before I brew to chart deviations (or lack there of) in water chemistry. What pracitces do you use for water chemistry?

 

[broadbill]

The LHBS owner is probably suggesting the 5.2 because he doesn't want you to find out the real reason for the 70% efficiency is the grain crush he is giving you!! Crush is probably the number one factor in determining brewhouse efficiency. A quick test would be to buy your grains from another place and see if there is a difference. There are any number of online stores that have a good crush going out the door.

That being said, 60-65% isn't that bad and I'm not sure if its worth chasing down an extra 5%.

Back to the 5.2: Do a search and I think you will find that the consensus is that its a bunch of hooey. Save your money.

 

[hoptualBrew]

I thought of that, but I have bought a lot of grain from Northern Brewer and had the same range of efficiency. If my water does turn out to be about 7.0, it would improve my efficiency to acidify my brewing water wouldn't it? And if the pH Buffer isn't worth it, what other method could I use to bring my pH down ~1.8?

 

[DSmith]

It's the pH of the mash that you want to be about 5.4-5.6 at room temperature readings (about 5.1-5.3 at mash temperature), not the pH of your brewing water.

Wards lab is a great place to start to get a water report with everything you need for brewing (W-6 test). If you have a water softener, use water upstream of that for testing/brewing. Your free test will probably not give you the same parameters listed in the W-6 test.
http://www.wardlab.com/FeeSchedule/WaterAnalysis.aspx

The next step is to download a brewing mash/water spreadsheet (link below to one popular option) and use your water report, recipe grain & mash water volume to estimate the mash pH. There are other programs but this is the simplest and has been fairly accurate. Limit yourself to CaCl2 & CaSO4 salt additions, lactic acid/acidulated malt. Your LHBS should have all of those.
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

You're going to have to decide where to go with your brewing water when you get an accurate report. If it's low/moderate alkalinity and Ca, Na, Mg, Cl & SO4 values aren't too "high", then you're tap has a lot of potential - post your water report to get some advice regrarding mashing & sparging with your water. If one parameter is "high", you might want to consider buying reverse osmosis water and starting with a blank slate of alkalinity and ion concentrations, adding CaCl and/or CaSO4 according to the primer (link below).
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

The final step is purchasing a pH meter with 0.01 resolution and accuracy, pH 4.01 & pH 7.01 buffers, storage solution & cleaning solution (budget $140) and check the actual mash pH with cooled samples in comparison to your planning tools. You'll really get a sense of how different malts used in different percentages from different brands influence your mash pH with the water you're using.

 

[OkashiiBrew]

I was 65% doing a single batch sparge. Adding a second sparge increased eff to 78%. Same crush (my malt mill), same water, same beer. I strike with 60% of my water and sparge twice with 20% each. Try doing the easy free fixes first.

 

[david_42]

Many people diss pH5.2, but I have very pure water and it makes a noticeable difference.

 

[helibrewer]

I find the grain bill does an excellent job of bringing the mash pH right in even when using RO water. Acidifying the sparge water is what's easy to forget. I use Phosphoric Acid since I have a lot around for wine making but Lactic works just as well. Get your sparge water at least into the high 5's to low 6's.

 

[DSmith]

I was 65% doing a single batch sparge. Adding a second sparge increased eff to 78%. Same crush (my malt mill), same water, same beer. I strike with 60% of my water and sparge twice with 20% each. Try doing the easy free fixes first.

I agree that verifying your crush is very important, have no experience with a double batch sparge yet but have read threads where people report better efficiency. I crush until I can't find an intact grain. Here is a plot of mash efficiency with a single batch sparge for a wide range of original gravities (1.5 qt/lb mash ratios, mash pH's measured 5.4-5.6 at room temp). I've taken off any beers that have sugar added to the kettle because they skew the data.

The original poster didn't specify what gravity he was trying to brew.

 

[neosapien]

Dough-in a bit early, say at 90 degrees? See if that you can get that phytase working and drop your mash that way as you heat up to your next step? I did this once by accident and ended up with a pH that was way too low (as it was unnecessary for my water).

Somebody with more experience please correct me if I'm wrong about this being science.

 

[mjohnson]

Your LHBS guy might be right in that pH could be causing a drop in your efficiency. However, I'd bet that the crush is more responsible. I routinely get 60-65% with my LHBS crush and I do my best to manage pH. I just embrace it and adjust my recipes to compensate. When I get a mill, I bet it will jump up. If your beer is turning out good, I don't stress to much about it.

Regarding 5.2: I've never used it, but enough smart folks in the brewing science forum have looked into it and it doesn't do what it says. I'm not making a judgement on if it makes your beer better, but it doesn't necessarily bring your pH to 5.2. If you want to manage pH of your mash, I'd get a meter and do some reading the science forum instead of using 5.2.

 

[Homercidal]

I've actually went from doing a double sparge on all my brews to doing a single sparge because the difference was so small as to make me not want to take the time. A couple of percentage points.

There could be a few reasons why you are getting a poor efficiency (relatively speaking). Crush is the big one. You could have inefficiencies in your equipment. Bad thermometer calibration, poor pH.

LOTS of people brew AG without playing with pH and they do just fine with efficiency. Yes it plays a role, but some of the other factors are more important IMO. If you are really interested in knowing more about pH, I'd suggest reading in the pH primer and listening to Kai's podcasts and read his website. Check out mabrugard's website and try your hand at using his spreadsheet. It's more complicated than the EZ one, but I find it easier for me to use, personally. Both are good at what they purport to do.

Water chemistry is known to be one of the more challenging technical aspects of brewing, but it's really not hard once you get the "A-HA!" moment. In a nutshell you just have to add salts or acid, or dilute your water (remove salts) to get the pH in the correct range. What salts you use may be partially determined by what flavor minerals you want to add for the style. (Calcium Sulfate to raise the calcium level AND the Sulfate ratio, or Calcium Chloride to raise the calcium and the Chloride ratio, etc.)

The best way to go about this is to actually test your pH though. Otherwise you are kind of shooting in the dark.

 

[Yooper]

When I bought pre-crushed grain from Northern Brewer, I always got 62-65% efficiency. With my own mill, I get 75-78%. It's definitely their crush, and while I was there I asked if it could be adjusted- the answer was a definite "no"! I was told that the mill is at 0.040" and there it is staying permanently. That means no stuck mash or stuck sparge and no shredded husks, though, so it's not that big of a deal as long as the brewer knows this.

Efficiency issues are almost never due to pH issues, while flavor issues are. If the beer tastes great, but with poor efficiency, it's more than likely the crush. If the efficiency is good, but the beer has some flavor issues (tannins, astringency, harshness), it's probably the pH.

Using one reverse osmosis water for one batch will let you know which it is.

 

[phuff7129]

I have been using 5.2 for my last 5 batches and here is what I have found. I had a slight increase in efficiency, maybe 2-5%. I have been detecting a bit of an off flavor. I can't quite put my finger on it but it is kind of salty. I don't remember this before using 5.2. Also it seems like my hop utilization has gone down and I think it has a negative effect on dry hopping. I have not been getting the kind of hop profile that I have been expecting and I have been very disappointed with the aroma of my dry hopped beers. To sum it up the beers I have brewed with 5.2 were good but not as good as when I did not use 5.2. I am brewing this weekend and I will not be using 5.2. Also remember that consistant efficiency is better than high efficiency as grain is cheap. I would take 65% consistantly rather than 80% one time and then 72% the next and so on.

 

[Primevci]

I have been using 5.2 for my last 5 batches and here is what I have found. I had a slight increase in efficiency, maybe 2-5%. I have been detecting a bit of an off flavor. I can't quite put my finger on it but it is kind of salty. I don't remember this before using 5.2. Also it seems like my hop utilization has gone down and I think it has a negative effect on dry hopping. I have not been getting the kind of hop profile that I have been expecting and I have been very disappointed with the aroma of my dry hopped beers. To sum it up the beers I have brewed with 5.2 were good but not as good as when I did not use 5.2. I am brewing this weekend and I will not be using 5.2. Also remember that consistant efficiency is better than high efficiency as grain is cheap. I would take 65% consistantly rather than 80% one time and then 72% the next and so on.

Here is something to try have a friend put in the 5.2 or not put it in and see if you can figure out if they did or not

 

[danielbt]

Here is something to try have a friend put in the 5.2 or not put it in and see if you can figure out if they did or not

Or just don't use it at all, because it only works if you have the exact right water profile in the first place.

Causes of poor efficiency:

1: Grain crush
2. Sparge technique
.
.
.
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3. Other stuff.

 

[Stephonovich]

I have been using 5.2 for my last 5 batches and here is what I have found. I had a slight increase in efficiency, maybe 2-5%. I have been detecting a bit of an off flavor. I can't quite put my finger on it but it is kind of salty. I don't remember this before using 5.2.

Many other people have noticed this. The buffers in 5.2 add quite a bit of sodium, which leads to astringency, or at worst, noticeable saltiness. I've used it, and in darker beers, you don't notice it much. However, given the general consensus that it works poorly at best, why risk it?

 

[mabrungard]

I hate to agree with the use of 5.2 in brewing. But for brewers with very low alkalinity water (like RO), adding a little 5.2 to the mash water only can be helpful when brewing with very acidic grists like dark beers. It adds buffering that helps the pH avoid dropping too low. But for all other brewing use, this product is not worth using and can be detrimental to beer taste.

Learn to properly adjust your brewing water and this product will never have to sully your beer.