The smallest 5.25gal beer needs 177bil yeast cells y can I only buy 100bil at a time

[jetmac]

When I use Mr Malty yeast calculator the default beer is a 5.25 gal batch of 1.048 ale.

The calculator says I need 177 billion yeast cells. Or 1.8 smack packs/vials. And that's with a yeast pack/vial dated today. A simple 1.054 5 gal ale requires 200billion cells.

Why do Wyeast and White Labs only sell packs with 100 billion cells? Why do I have to deal with buying multiple packs or why do I feel i have to make a starter?

I think they should make smack packs or vials with at least 200 billion cells since many brewers (if not most brewers) are faced making a starter to increase cell count or dealing with multiple smack packs.
And the simplest beer needs 177 billion. I know I save money buying 1 smack pack/vial and stepping it up but has anyone ever calculated the cost of equipment to make a smack pack. Or the energy required to boil it. Or the added expense of DME and nutrients and the time it takes.

 

[waldoar15]

They're in the business to make money.
Wash your yeast or pitch slurry. Even dry lager yeast takes almost two 11g packs for a 1.045 beer. Just have to use it more than once, like many of us do.

 

[Gwitz]

First off the Mr malty calculator suggests alot more yeast than iv ever used. Im drinking a beer that is pretty good and it got less than 30ml of harvested yeast. Obviously my opinion is mine, but a 100ml smack pack is good for 5 gallons of 1.050 beer. If i wana do a higher gravity beer or 10 gallon light beer, i do a 2 liter starter and let it ride for a day and pitch the whole thing. Away she goes.

Now onto the cost of starters. It depends on what you use, but i can make 1 liter of starter wort for around 30 cents. If you use an electric stove to boil and for the sake of argument it takes an hour to do it(including canning if ur like me), thats between 12 and 20 cents depending on what you pay for electricity. My pressure cooker fits 7 liters, and i pay $.06 kw/h. So thats very roughly 32 cents per liter of starter, plus my time. But its a hobby the time is irrelevant.

It seems to me its worth it to invest in a little equipment rather than pay 6-9 dollars per 5 gallons for liquid yeast.

 

[crush]

I think the figures are there if you want the yeast to hit the ground running so to speak, to avoid the lag phase when they bud off to make up the required numbers.

If you pitch too little yeast by a reasonable factor, the yeast will make up for it by reproducing to create the appropriate number of cells. Although this creates a lag from pitching to active fermentation, this is good for the beer since it removes a lot of the dissolved oxygen in the wort, making it less habitable for aerobic organisms, e.g. acetobacter.

Pitching from a yeast cake will give you more than enough yeast, as will pitching a suitably sized starter (2L for 5 gal, although I usually use 1L stirred.) I prefer making a starter, since it shows the yeast are viable (useful when they come from a vial), and that the quantity is not too much yeast (I've overpitched a couple of times from the yeast cake and ended up with rubber-meat-beer after 3 weeks.) I would only use two smack packs if I were in a hurry, and then I'd probably use dry yeast, unable to justify the expense of two packs of liquid.

 

[microbrewswhoo]

Still learning how all this works and new to brewing, but I have pitched single vials of White Labs liquid yeast into both my amber ale and hefeweizen recently and they seem to have gone through complete fermentation. They are in bottles right now, and they are carbonating just fine, so there must have been plenty of yeast leftover to do that, right?

So using one vial is OK so long as you are patient enough to let it simmer a bit longer, right?

 

[rico567]

Still learning how all this works and new to brewing, but I have pitched single vials of White Labs liquid yeast into both my amber ale and hefeweizen recently and they seem to have gone through complete fermentation. They are in bottles right now, and they are carbonating just fine, so there must have been plenty of yeast leftover to do that, right?

So using one vial is OK so long as you are patient enough to let it simmer a bit longer, right?

This is a question I'd like to see answered, similar to one that's being done by someone in a concurrently running thread on oxygen vs. plain air æration. I am more than willing to let the fermentation go- I'm doing 3-4 week extended primaries now. Only way to really prove it would be to split batches of wort and pitch varying amounts of yeast= taste the results.

I have made starters, but rarely, pitched on a yeast cake once, and washed yeast several times. I was not struck by the superiority of using a lot more yeast, but I didn't split the batches or do anything else that would eliminate all variables except the quantity of yeast.

 

[o4_srt]

This is a question I'd like to see answered, similar to one that's being done by someone in a concurrently running thread on oxygen vs. plain air æration. I am more than willing to let the fermentation go- I'm doing 3-4 week extended primaries now. Only way to really prove it would be to split batches of wort and pitch varying amounts of yeast= taste the results.

I have made starters, but rarely, pitched on a yeast cake once, and washed yeast several times. I was not struck by the superiority of using a lot more yeast, but I didn't split the batches or do anything else that would eliminate all variables except the quantity of yeast.

There has been several experiments concluded regarding pitching rates, and people, even with unrefined palates, can taste differences between underpitched, properly pitched, and overpitched beers.

 

[onthekeg]

Making a starter is best for liquid yeasts, even if they sold larger smack packs you may still have an issue with enough yeast due to shipping, age, etc. If you don't have time to make a starter, I have had success with the following.

Brew your beer as normal, but run one gallon into your fermenter and put the balance in another sanitized container. Add your yeast to the 1 gallon and let it ferment for 12 hours or so. Once it reaches high krausen, dump in the remainder of the wort and it will go like crazy.

I have had much success with this and its much easier than making a starter, and is much quicker as well.

 

[optimatored]

my nickel:

mr. malty and making starters made ONE of the biggest difference in my homebrew... not going to all-grain, but good fresh yeast and plenty of them. i see signs of ferm in just a few hours normally and complete ferm in less than 48 hours with an average gravity brew.

it doesn't really matter how many cells are in one smack pack or vial because you can culture as many as you need. plus, lately, i noticed that unless you are going for some specific style, dry yeast will do the trick (and two-three packs of dry are far less $$$).

 

[rico567]

There has been several experiments concluded regarding pitching rates, and people, even with unrefined palates, can taste differences between underpitched, properly pitched, and overpitched beers.

Well, I haven't the stomach for researching all these studies, so for now I'll drop that part of it. I think the easiest and best course for me, since I do my brewing in two fairly active sets of batches in Spring and Fall, is to resort to yeast washing. I've done it before, and it doesn't rely on the purchase of a new set of equipment (Erlenmeyer flask, stir plate, etc.). I can just use the home canning equipment and jars that are around here anyway. I just line up the batches that take the same yeast, and I'm good to go.

 

[pohldogg]

From the interviews I've listened to with the Whites, the goal is to have the yeast reproduce 4 to 5 times during fermentation. Underpitching requires more reproduction and yeast stress causing off flavors, and overpitching doesn't require all of the reproduction leading to a blander beer. If Mr. Malty calls for 200 billion cells for say a four fold increase, pitching 100 billion will require five, still within the overall goal, making the vials and packs pretty good for a normal sized beer.

 

[markg388]

when it comes to american ale and other hearty strains of yeast you can still make a *good* beer with just 1 vial or smack pack, underpitching a bit. if you're looking for excellence, perfection or stupendous results, it's time to pitch harvested yeast and make starters.