Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Resto3 said:
Please!!! Can someone give the me the cliff notes to this thread?? ...
Click to expand...


Sure. Essentially it's this... Go to CSI 's website and brew the version currently posted there and don't cut corners. It's well vetted and it will serve you well.

End of story.
 
One observation that I am willing to bet makes a difference in the end product is the bulk aging. I opened a corked bottle just to make sure they carbed up and such, and there was quite a bit of sediment in the bottle (I laid the bottles down to keep the cork wet). Not a big prob, I was able to get a decent pour without taking the sediment with it, but with the bulk aging I would bet a million bucks there would be less sediment in the bottles... So yea... Those of you thinking of doing what I did and not bulk aging, there will be more sediment. Just something to think about. If you are just capping the bottles then I guess it really dont matter if the bottles are not gonna get laid down...
 
Brewing this again today. 11 gallon batch.
I brew the version from page 52 of this thread. There may be a better version, but we love this beer too much to try a different one. LOL
 
Gixxer said:
One observation that I am willing to bet makes a difference in the end product is the bulk aging. I opened a corked bottle just to make sure they carbed up and such, and there was quite a bit of sediment in the bottle (I laid the bottles down to keep the cork wet). Not a big prob, I was able to get a decent pour without taking the sediment with it, but with the bulk aging I would bet a million bucks there would be less sediment in the bottles... So yea... Those of you thinking of doing what I did and not bulk aging, there will be more sediment. Just something to think about. If you are just capping the bottles then I guess it really dont matter if the bottles are not gonna get laid down...
Click to expand...

Whether you need to keep the cork wet is debatable (I don't lay them down), but you could stand them up in the fridge for a few days to a week before drinking and you'd have less sediment when pouring.
 
Layne said:
Brewing this again today. 11 gallon batch.
I brew the version from page 52 of this thread. There may be a better version, but we love this beer too much to try a different one. LOL
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. Page 52 was a good one. Really, really temped to go back to Brewers Gold even though Northern Brewer is most likely the bittering hop used at St. Sixtus.

Here's a comment worth sharing on Brewers Gold. Most bittering hop contributions age-out over time in high ABV ales. Brewers Gold still has a noticeable presence in all of our Westy clones that used it even after 2 years in conditioning. Spicy floral and aromatic. I would even say that the older clones have a better palate over the import.
 
Layne said:
Brewing this again today. 11 gallon batch. I brew the version from page 52 of this thread. There may be a better version, but we love this beer too much to try a different one. LOL
Click to expand...

I'm on an iPhone, so page numbers don't match. What is the date of the post of the recipe?
 
Crap! This is the second time this happened to me. ( the last two times I brewed it)
I hit my numbers into the fermenter- 1.091
Mashed at 149
Pitched at 67, let free rise to 80, and held it there for a week. Good blow off the entire time.
But stopped in low 1.020's

Last time was my fault. For some reason I decided to use two vials of yeast in a two liter starter.
This time I went back to my tried and true. I dumped it on a fresh yeast cake from my belgian dubble.
Same results, 9 days after brewday, stuck in the low 1.020's ( still at 80 degrees)
 
Layne - I made two batches. The first did not finish as it should have, the second did.

The first batch fermented with a starter and the second a starter from non-washed yeast of the first batch. The yeast was approximately 11 months old, stored in a mason jar in the keezer.

The first batch was heated (thermowell, thermostat, and heat mat) to bring the temperature up while the second was left to whatever happened.

The first was babied, the second forgotten and left alone.

Despite more heat and agitation (the yeast and me) - the first batch wouldn't budge past 1.018/19 and the second finished where it should.

My brewing process is the same, perhaps something along the process changed.

What is most interesting to me is that I used yeast that was 12+ months old (if you include the production date) and it turned out great.
 
Layne said:
Crap! This is the second time this happened to me. ( the last two times I brewed it)
I hit my numbers into the fermenter- 1.091
Mashed at 149
Pitched at 67, let free rise to 80, and held it there for a week. Good blow off the entire time.
But stopped in low 1.020's

Last time was my fault. For some reason I decided to use two vials of yeast in a two liter starter.
This time I went back to my tried and true. I dumped it on a fresh yeast cake from my belgian dubble.
Same results, 9 days after brewday, stuck in the low 1.020's ( still at 80 degrees)
Click to expand...

1.091 sounds like a near-perfect OG. If you pitched 260-270 billion healthy cells, (underpitch), you should reach 1.013-1.014 in 6-7 days.

A 2000ml 10P wort stir-plate starter will yield about 200-210 billion cells which is probably too low. A yeast cake of undetermined health/cell count is a shot in the dark for an ale this difficult to brew. It could end up being a quick attenuation, (not enough ester development), or a stalled fermentation due to exhausted yeast.

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/pitching_rates_-_rev_1.14.pdf

...
 
Layne said:
So should I just drink it @ 1.020, or try repitching, of something else?
Click to expand...

1.020 a bit high for an FG on this ale IMHO. You could re-pitch a fresh starter of 3000ml (fully decanting the starter beer). You will need this as the minimum size starter to reach FG at this stage of ABV and low oxygen. It will take 3-4 weeks.
 
I am planning to use WY3711 for this recipe. I like my quads on the dry side and like the the taste and aroma of the french saison yeast.Just not quite sure how it will work in darker beers. Any thoughts?
 
I wouldn't, im big fan of 3711 strain but i find high gravity beers fermented with it lacking complexity and being alcohol forward
 
Estbrew said:
I am planning to use WY3711 for this recipe. I like my quads on the dry side and like the the taste and aroma of the french saison yeast.Just not quite sure how it will work in darker beers. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Westmalle yeast is a big part of this recipe. I think you could substitute hops, choose any maker of candi syrup, change your mix of base grains and not impact flavor as much as changing the yeast. Using Chimay yeast would be a noticeable change - while using a spicy saison yeast would be a pretty massive change.

If you think you will like it then do it! But it wouldn't be a Belgian quad as described by this thread.
 
Estbrew said:
I am planning to use WY3711 for this recipe. I like my quads on the dry side and like the the taste and aroma of the french saison yeast.Just not quite sure how it will work in darker beers. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Love WY3711 for dry Saisons but the ester profile would be way off for this ale.
 
So... I'm doing this again(CSI v19). I remember being puzzled about the decoctions.

For those that have done it; I realize I need the temperature for the infusion to reach my target temps and I know to boil more than the target volume to be certain to hit my temp ( cool the remainder and re-introduce when at temp).

My question is how long should I be boiling the decoctions for? Is there a standard or rule I don't know?

Btw... Here's my sloppy 2.5 L starter of White Labs Abbey for tomorrow night... ImageUploadedByHome Brew1388238499.899081.jpg
 
Brewskii said:
So... I'm doing this again(CSI v19). I remember being puzzled about the decoctions.

For those that have done it; I realize I need the temperature for the infusion to reach my target temps and I know to boil more than the target volume to be certain to hit my temp ( cool the remainder and re-introduce when at temp).

My question is how long should I be boiling the decoctions for? Is there a standard or rule I don't know?

Btw... Here's my sloppy 2.5 L starter of White Labs Abbey for tomorrow night...View attachment 168514
Click to expand...

We like to 'crash' the decocted mash onto a hot kettle basin then bring to a boil and hold for a short time, (about 5 minutes). A lot of different variations on decoction boil duration and method. If you do not have agitation, it's good to immediately stir the decocted mash to keep grains from burning :)
 
Cool. Thx. Crash as in dropping thick mash into a hot empty kettle? I assume moderation is key -not too much and not too hot
 
Whelp..... Missed my numbers a little... 1.100 after adding a couple quarts of water to the fermenter (my boil off rate is still a little low in BeerSmith and the 90 min boil didn't help). By the time I adjusted The recipe for my system I was looking for a 1.099 OG so, not bad after the water addition.
I did old world CSI v.19 double decoction ( one to get to sacch rest and a second for the MO raise). Used my old 8 gallon HLT for boiling the mash and I was glad it has a thermometer on it. The mash boils around the edge of the pot before the whole mass comes to a boil so, by stirring and using the thermometer, I was able to get positive feed back for when I was actually boiling the mash.
Also. My first attempt at this I had a 10 gallon kettle so I only did a 60 min boil. In retrospect, that was a mistake as I ended up with some fairly strong DMS notes. This year I upgraded to a 15 gal kettle and did the 90 min with zero issues. Also got to play with my new Xmas present too...ImageUploadedByHome Brew1388496080.237679.jpg
 
Brewskii said:
Whelp..... Missed my numbers a little... 1.100 after adding a couple quarts of water to the fermenter (my boil off rate is still a little low in BeerSmith and the 90 min boil didn't help). By the time I adjusted The recipe for my system I was looking for a 1.099 OG so, not bad after the water addition.
I did old world CSI v.19 double decoction ( one to get to sacch rest and a second for the MO raise). Used my old 8 gallon HLT for boiling the mash and I was glad it has a thermometer on it. The mash boils around the edge of the pot before the whole mass comes to a boil so, by stirring and using the thermometer, I was able to get positive feed back for when I was actually boiling the mash.
Also. My first attempt at this I had a 10 gallon kettle so I only did a 60 min boil. In retrospect, that was a mistake as I ended up with some fairly strong DMS notes. This year I upgraded to a 15 gal kettle and did the 90 min with zero issues. Also got to play with my new Xmas present too...View attachment 169189
Click to expand...

Nice mill :)
 
Thanks. Gotta bring the gaps in some but it mills a lot better and faster than the ole "junk Corona" as they say. I liked that set up because I had it dialed in but this is the way to go.
Back to Westy....other than following the ferm temps it's in God's hands now. Thanks for the exhaustive research CSI.
 
A couple of folks trying to clone the cuvée de tomme sour used a version of the westy 12 clone recipe for that... Search cuvée de tomme and you can read all about it. I would normally post a link to the thread but I am posting from my phone...
 
The idea behind making a Flanders or any variation of sour ale from an 11% ABV ale is fundamentally flawed.

Acetobacter spp., Brett spp., Lactics, etc. will cease mitosis at about 8% ABV and die a slow death at 9%. On the bright side though, you could brew a pared-down dubbel at say 6% ABV and vary it with sour bugs but this would not be anything resembling a Westy 12 sour variation. :(
 
Layne said:
So should I just drink it @ 1.020, or try repitching, of something else?
Click to expand...


Hey Layne; any news on this? I'm in a similar boat ( krausen dropped out completely at day 10 and I'm showing 1.030 now, down from 1.100 OG) I roused mine just today, but I'm not expecting much movement from here based on how it's behaving.

I pitched 2.5 L starter of white labs Abbey with yeast nutrient, hit the brew with 2.5 min pure o2 prior to pitch. Pitched at 58, let it free rise to 62 and I've been ramping it to what is now 80f by 2-3 degrees per day. Today is day 11 and the first day that the krausen fell completely.
 
It did not budge from 1.020
The sample tasted good, so I kegged it. It will be very drinkable, and I'll try agin soon to brew it and get it to ferment down to where it should be.
 
I'm thinking I may go the re-pitch route with a decanted 2-2.5L starter. Thought I did everything by the book this time but got snagged.
 
I have found that after 2 weeks there is still another 15 points of SG that will drop out. IMO just stick with it. I let this ferment for 4 weeks and then let 1 more go by just to be sure it is done (so that I won't get bottle bombs later.)
 
Thanks for that. I'm not in any rush to move this and it would take a while for me to mobilize on a re-pitch culture anyway do, wait I will.
That said, I really do hope it dries out because even at this stage the esters are much more in line than my first go at this brew last year. This on will likley become a New Years(ish) tradition for my brew schedule (It may take that long till this one comes around).
 
Brewskii said:
Thanks for that. I'm not in any rush to move this and it would take a while for me to mobilize on a re-pitch culture anyway do, wait I will.
That said, I really do hope it dries out because even at this stage the esters are much more in line than my first go at this brew last year. This on will likley become a New Years(ish) tradition for my brew schedule (It may take that long till this one comes around).
Click to expand...


Do you remember the use by date on the vial?
 
Like mid February 2014, If I recall correctly. It made for a vigorous starter as you may be able to tell from my earlier post.
 
Yea I saw that beast of a starter. I'm trying to get a clearer picture.

I'm just curious as to why some people get stuck around there and others don't.
 

Similar threads

D
First Recipe: 1 Gallon Maris Otter / Goldings SMaSH (Comments, suggestions?)
Replies
6
Views
329
Northern_Brewer
Northern_Brewer
Zippy123
Feedback on recipe to split mash for two different beers
Replies
2
Views
399
Zippy123
Zippy123
PashMaddle
Brew day #2 is done.
Replies
22
Views
1K
lumpher
lumpher
S
Autumn Wheat Ale
Replies
5
Views
1K
kwilson16
kwilson16
Clint Yeastwood
Failure Beer
Replies
9
Views
815
Zambezi Special
Zambezi Special
BrewSwag 300

Latest posts

Back
Top