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Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

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saq

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Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
WLP530
Yeast Starter
3.8L stirplate
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.5
Original Gravity
1.090
Final Gravity
1.012
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
35
Color
33
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
5 @ 83
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
2 @ 65
Additional Fermentation
60 @ 50
Tasting Notes
see thread
I have gotten a few PMs from people who followed the two Westvleteren 12 threads I did regarding trying to clone this recipe and a competition with the other people who were in on it so I'm posting up my notes.

There are two ways of making this, a "New World" recipe that uses specialty malts, and a "Traditional" recipe that goes by the way Westvleteren has been making it for a while with just two basemalts and sugar.

The Pious New World - Took 1st place & BOS in the Westvleteren 12 clone comp with 43 points beating out a real Westvleteren 12 with 40 points.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.54 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 26.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 74.71 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.53 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2.77 %
0.33 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.83 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.38 %
0.19 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.05 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (30 min)Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (30 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.00 item Servomyces (10 min)
1.50 lb Dark Belgian Candi Syrup (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8.30 %
0.75 lb Amber Belgian Candi Syrup (40.0 SRM) Sugar 4.43 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 15.77 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 24.00 qt of water at 159.3 F 150.0 F


The Pious Traditional - I like this better than the New World.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 8.27 gal
Estimated OG: 1.092 SG
Estimated Color: 33.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 42.11 %
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 42.11 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 25.7 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] (20 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (20 min)Hops 2.4 IBU
3.00 lb Dark 2 Belgian Candi Syrup (160.0 SRM) Sugar 15.79 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale
1lbs sugar added to beginning of boil, 1lbs added to last 5, 1lbs added in secondary.

Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Double
Total Grain Weight: 16.00 lb
----------------------------
Decoction Mash, Double
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
10 min Protein Rest Add 32.00 qt of water at 137.5 F 132.0 F
30 min Saccharification Decoct 8.79 qt of mash and boil it 151.0 F
30 min Saccharification Decoct 4.85 qt of mash and boil it 159.0 F

Same yeast is used in both, and same fermentation schedule is used in both. Chill the wort down to 65f, pitch and let it self rise to about 82-83f and try to hold it there. The yeast will keep the temp there for about 5 days when fermentation is about 80% done (about 1.018) and start to chill down to 65f until you hit terminal gravity at 1.012 which should take 2 days. After this rack off into a secondary (I did kegs for both as I keg conditioned) and chill to 50f for 7 weeks, then carb however you want.
 
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saq

saq

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Brewed a batch of The Pious Traditional yesterday. I hit 78% efficiency so I adjusted by brewing a 5.75g batch size and using some of it to top up my Cuvee De Tomme barrel, gravity came in line after that.

Its fermenting away QUITE aggressively right now, I think I got foam control in at the perfect time as when I took a peak this morning I didn't see any foam control on the top. I've got a blanket wrapped around it indoors and its at about 79f right now and rising (was at 76f before the blanket).

It'll probably hit 82f by tonight right as planned when I need to figure out how to let it lose a little heat but still keep enough to maintain temp. Love this beer, can't wait to try it with the D2 as opposed to my first brewing which used D1.
 

chelero

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I would like to make this recipe on a friend's brewmagic 15gal system. how would we adjust the amount? how many viles of white labs? and then 60 days at 50F? is that correct?
 
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saq

saq

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The recipe scales exactly linearly. Just multiply all the ingredients by 3.
For figuring out how much yeast you need you should use the Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator to figure out how much yeast you should be pitching.
15 gallons of 1.094 needs a seriously hefty amount of yeast, and this is an absolutely crucial step you should not skip.
Without a starter you are looking at 11 vials of yeast from whitelabs/wyeast. If you do a simple starter (no o2, shaking or stirplate) you will need about 2 vials and a 32 liter starter. If you have a stirplate (your buddy should REALLY have a stir plate with these big batches) you can get by with 2 vials and a 12 liter starter.
 
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saq

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The Pious #3 beer just won Best of Show and ProAm selection at the Thunder Canyon Brewing Company / Tucson Homebrew Club Proam competition. My beer will be at GABF!
 

meadowstream

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Congratulations on doing so well with this recipe! I am going to try it!

Will you please help me with a couple of questions?

1. Most Belgian Pils is highly or fully modified: if you don't use decoction, then do you think a protein rest is still important? Would you still split mash time between 150 and 159 degrees?

2. Philosophically, do you think there is a problem with pitching what WL or Wyeast suggest and let the yeast fight to get the same mass hours later? Or do you think that pitching that large amount of yeast has a positive impact on flavor or final attenuation?

3. Substitute Wyeast 3787 at will for WLP 530?

Thanks for sharing your recipe!
 
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saq

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1: Protein rest is definitely not required, its more of an excuse to get the juices flowing in the malt and to get a nice decoction going. Doing a single or double infusion vs a decoction is all going to produce slightly different flavors. Experiment and see what you like best!

2: Belgian brewers pitch very similar levels of yeast as the general rule of thumb of 1 million cells per ml per degree plato. This is more or less the math MrMalty spits out. All of the esters from Belgian yeast is not caused by a very large and overly stressful reproduction phase, plenty is done in the fermentation phase.

3: Wyeast 3787 and WLP530 = Westmalle yeast, so yes.
 
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saq

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Brewed this at Thunder Canyon Brewery today, man its so easy brewing on real brewing equipment that is setup right! We got about 17.2 bbl into the fermenter, should be ready in about 8 weeks!
 

BK1017

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Thanks for posting these amazing recipes! Due to space constraints, I'm working with a 5 gallon MLT (and split boil) in my apartment kitchen and was wondering if anyone had a good partial mash recipe for these. I can do about 10 lbs of grain in MLT fyi. I've tried using BeerSmith and adapting these recipes, but something is not coming out right. Any help is appreciated! Thanks in advance. - BK
 
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saq

saq

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A 5 gallon MLT is a really tight constraint, just do a smaller batch. Its worth doing right.
 

thesanch

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Brewed this at Thunder Canyon Brewery today, man its so easy brewing on real brewing equipment that is setup right! We got about 17.2 bbl into the fermenter, should be ready in about 8 weeks!
Awesome! Can't wait for that to be tapped. :mug:
 

MilwaukeeBrewGuy

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so what if any are the distinct differences in taste between the new world and traditional? I really don't want to do a decoction mash. So I am leaning towards the New World recipe.

I assume this is right along the lines of a St. Bernardus Abt 12 right?
 

MilwaukeeBrewGuy

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I just noticed that you are adding 1# of D2 to the secondary. I would assume little of the D2 gets fermented at this stage. Are you doing this primarily for sweetness/ mouthfeel?
 
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saq

saq

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Haha I don't do that anymore actually. I was cleaning out my conical after brewing a batch and found some of the syrup in the fermenter. I've switched to putting all the sugar in at flameout, it has the added benefit of knocking the temperature down quite a bit.
 

MilwaukeeBrewGuy

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wow. so no boiling of it whatsoever? huh. I would have thought that boiling it would help some of the flavoring but maybe it just drives it off. Thanks saq for posting this and doing all of the legwork for us. :rockin:
 
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saq

saq

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I've never used wyeast 3787. I use WLP530 because thats what is available at my LHBS.
However, both wyeast 3787 and WLP530 are the same yeast, Westmalle yeast.
 

MilwaukeeBrewGuy

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Just brewed this up but I scaled it back in an attempt to make an 8 out of it.

6.0# Belgian Pale
6.5# Belgian Pils
1# D2 90 min
1# D2 flame out.

Mashed at 151.

My efficiency really sucked so I ended up with 1.062. Just barely fit into the style guidline.

She has been going gangbusters now but has not jumped off the temperature strip. (about 78 degrees).

Should be a good dubbel even though it is a bit lighter. Thanks again for posting.
 

grahamfw

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I've been lagering this for 8 weeks at 55 degrees and it's still only down to 1.02ish. I agitated the carboys to hopefully rouse the yeast. I'd rather not have to repitch. It should be noted that I started out only around 1.081.

Anyone else finish much lower? These will be bottled so I really don't want to pooch this and have exploding bottles!
 
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saq

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You need to follow the fermentation schedule properly if you want to get it to finish in the right place. IMO 1.020 is way too high of a finish gravity for this beer thats supposed to finish fairly dry and yes I would be worried about bottle bombs. You need to get the fermentation temperature up to 78f minimum to get the high attenuation that defines this style. 1.012 is to style and I think 1.016 wouldn't be too sweet, but 1.020 is over the top.

Once you get the fermentation temperature down to 55f you are going to put the yeast into hibernation and it starts to drop out. In order to fix this you are going to need to get the temperature back up to 70+ and pitch some new yeast. You can take some of the yeast you have and put it in some new wort to get it going again, but this yeast likes to crash and go to sleep once it hits a significant temperature swing.

The belgian's don't really mean "lagering" in the conventional sense of the word, its really just "cold conditioning" and no fermentation activity is occurring.
 

Tall_Yotie

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Question regarding the 55F 7 weeks part. Do I need to do that, or can I do another method at standard temperatures? I have no method of holding a batch at that temperature, but would LOVE to make this. Thanks a great deal!
 
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saq

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Its probably going to result in some different flavor characteristics, but if the fermentation is strong and finishes as expected and you get it off the yeast you can try other temperatures. This is just what I usually shoot for.
 

smuth10

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I just kegged this with the intention of bottling from the keg. I have never done this before, especially with a Belgian, so I have some questions. I kegged at 16 PSI at roughly 35 deg and according to my chart, this gives me ~3.1 volumes. I was going to leave it at 16psi for about a week and then bottle at about 2psi. Do I still need to add a little yeast when bottling this way. Any pointers would be much appreciated.
 

MilwaukeeBrewGuy

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i would think not. I have bottled this way with no yeast and have not seen any carb loss after several months. (haven't gone beyond that).

I plan on doing the same thing with mine (which is currently lagering)
 
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saq

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I bottle from keg when it sat about 3.1 vol/co2. Its a bit of a pain, make sure you have frozen bottles to reduce the temperature shock which will keep the foaming down.
 

smuth10

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Great tip, thank you. What psi did you bottle at? I was thinking 2 or 3 psi.
 
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saq

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About 3 psi. Depends on your system.
 

burtonbaton

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I went and tried The Pious at Thunder Canyon. Having never had Westvleteren 12, I have to say it was great, and I hope to get back for several more. How does it compare to your homebrewed version?
 
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saq

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Its really damn close, I made a few changes to the recipe we brewed that I feel were some improvements. Rate it on ratebeer if you've had it!
 

Bashiba

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I'm brewing the New World version tomorrow night, can't wait to try it out. One thing that has me a bit confused is why is the boil size so different(almost a gallon apart) on 2 same sized recipes? I assume they are based on the same evaporation rate, they use almost the same amount of hops, and have the same boil time, shouldn't they be sparged to very close to the same amounts? I'll have to adjust the amount of water to my system and evaporation rate anyway so it won't affect me, It just made me curious if there was a reason for this?
 
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saq

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Doing a decoction you use more water. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 

mullimat

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Just brewed a batch of New World yesterday but added a few twists. Instead of 1.5 lbs. of Dark Belgian Candy Syrup I added 1 lb. of Dark Syrup and 1lb. of Dark 2 Syrup. Also I pitched Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II yeast. I overshot on my cooling and it cooled down to about 58 instead. Not sure if this will affect anything but curious to see how my other changes will effect the beer.
 
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saq

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The different yeast will make it a very different beer, 1762 is the Rochefort yeast which I have yet to use. It should still be pretty good :)
 

Tall_Yotie

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Just got back from Belgium, tried the Westvleteren 12, and it lives up to the hype and beyond. I can now not wait to make this clone. Brought back a couple bottles, so will be able to compare in the end.
 

dachoe

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Just wondering about the fermentation schedule. Why does the beer have to be chilled starting at 1.018? Why not let it finish out at 80F-ish?

I ask because in my experience, WLP530 crashes hard if I begin to chill even a little.

Thanks in advance.
 

Bullka

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Do you have any recommendations if my clone stopped fermenting at 1.028?
It has been 2 weeks since I began fermentation.
I am now pretty sure that I did not pitch enough yeast, should I just add a little dry yeast to help it finish before I condition it?
If so, does the yeast really matter that much now or can I add a 1/3 or so of a package of dry lager yeast I have lying around?
 

grahamfw

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Did you raise the temperature at all? I had to ramp mine to 80 to get it to finish. You want a more fully attenuating yeast I believe, so choose what you pitch wisely.
 
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saq

saq

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If you followed the recipe closely and got your fermentation temperature up to 78 or higher you shouldn't have any problems with the beer finishing in the low teens by day 7.
 

Bullka

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I think that was my biggest problem, I could not get my temperature high enough during the first week.
Should I raise the temp up to 80 and see if it finishes or add more yeast?
I think now I can get it high enough b/c I have a heater and temp controller if needed.
 
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