Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

[Bottoms_Up]

Cos one batch thats now in secondary has fg 1006. Therefore i wanted another batch with a high fg so i could mix the two into one beer with an fg of around 1014.

Is it not possible to add a little DME or D-180 to increase the FG a little?

 

[rockdemon]

Is it not possible to add a little DME or D-180 to increase the FG a little?

That was my first thought aswell but it doesnt seem to be a good idea according to the more experienced brewers. I guess that more sugar would also get the yeast active again..

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I guess that more sugar would also get the yeast active again..

Likely not if the amount is low, if the beer has already been racked to the secondary and it has been at lagering temperatures. But perhaps someone with more experience could comment.

 

[Hermit]

Malto-dextrin will add back unfermentable sugars won't it?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Both are pretty directly fermentable.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I think rockdemon identified the cause of the over-attenuation. A measured starter or measurement of packed sediment, (4-4.5 B/ml), will be a starting point toward fixing over-attenuation. A microscope/hemocytometer should not be necessary to get within a reasonable pitch rate to hit FG.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I used some bottleharvested yeast plus a smackpack and did a 3 liter starter with it and that gave me either too much yeast or a yeast that is too "aggressive". Used that mixed yeast for a tripel now. Went from 1070-1005 in 6 days. I really like the idea of using bottleharvested yeast but it seems too hard to calculate the amount and quality o that yeast. So from now on ill just use bought yeast. Atleast until i get more control of my brewing...



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The Fix rate is based on 100% viable yeast so the more active the better, so long as you are pitching to the OG you have. You can consult many online pitch charts. I use our own since it's easy to get to:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/pitching_rates_-_rev_1.14.pdf

For an OG of 1.090 I like to pitch 300-310B.

 

[rockdemon]

The Fix rate is based on 100% viable yeast so the more active the better, so long as you are pitching to the OG you have. You can consult many online pitch charts. I use our own since it's easy to get to:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/pitching_rates_-_rev_1.14.pdf

For an OG of 1.090 I like to pitch 300-310B.

Im not sharp enough to understand how to use that chart... If i make a 2000ml starter with my 50ml superyeast for 15L of 1074 wort i would probably overpitch like crazy...

Since im not really discussing the recipe(im just nagging about my fermentation-issue) Ill send you a private message instead. hope its ok

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Im not sharp enough to understand how to use that chart... If i make a 2000ml starter with my 50ml superyeast for 15L of 1074 wort i would probably overpitch like crazy...

Since im not really discussing the recipe(im just nagging about my fermentation-issue) Ill send you a private message instead. hope its ok

Ok

 

[el_caro]

Well i bottled this one 5 months ago and thought I would crack one to see how it was progressing.
VIrtually no carbonation.
Used 1762 belgian yeast and wonder if the ABV is too high for it to carb the bottles? My Brewmate program indicates 14% ABV

I am thinking of opening them and giving them some more yeast and maybe another dose of dextrose. I would do a test run on a couple of bottles only.

is that ABV an issue for 1762 ? If so can anyone tell me if they had same problem and what yeast would be good for carbing the high ABV beer?

 

[tehnick]

You should be able to use corn sugar and safeale 05 for bottling. Easy to measure both out for the process. I don't bottle anymore unless I bottle from the keg because I'm lazy and hate filling bottles lol.

 

[rockdemon]

You should be able to use corn sugar and safeale 05 for bottling. Easy to measure both out for the process. I don't bottle anymore unless I bottle from the keg because I'm lazy and hate filling bottles lol.

Ive been using safbrew f-2 for bottle conditioning without much success. Its hard to know the right amount when its 2 to 7 grams for 100 liters. And im usually doing 10-12 liters. Its alcohol tolerance is only >10% aswell. Do you think the safale us-05 is better for bottling?


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[Bottoms_Up]

Does anyone familiar with making the Westvleteren clone know how critical the 'lagering' temperature of 50 F is? I currently have a pilsner lagering in my temperature-controlled freezer at close to freezing temperature. I could raise that temperature to about 40F if necessary to accommodate both. Will that be too cold for the Westvleteren?

 

[itsratso]

The Fix rate is based on 100% viable yeast so the more active the better, so long as you are pitching to the OG you have. You can consult many online pitch charts. I use our own since it's easy to get to:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/pitching_rates_-_rev_1.14.pdf

For an OG of 1.090 I like to pitch 300-310B.

i also find the chart confusing. if i am reading it right, the standard pitch rate for 1.090 lager is 506B and the underpitch is 405B, do you under under pitch to 300B?

 

[tehnick]

Ive been using safbrew f-2 for bottle conditioning without much success. Its hard to know the right amount when its 2 to 7 grams for 100 liters. And im usually doing 10-12 liters. Its alcohol tolerance is only >10% aswell. Do you think the safale us-05 is better for bottling?


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I'd use a dry yeast with a high abv tolerance and a sensitive scale to weigh the yeast. The one I have is accurate to 0.001 of a gram so it can be used to measure dry yeast to pitch for bottling.

I keg now, but get yourself a good high quality scale. You can usually find them at any head shop where they sell smoking supplies.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

i also find the chart confusing. if i am reading it right, the standard pitch rate for 1.090 lager is 506B and the underpitch is 405B, do you under under pitch to 300B?

The Westy 12 is an ale. You may be reading the lager column.

Ale at 1.090 has a pitch of 338 Billion per 5 gallons with a -20% under-pitch of 270 Billion, (per 5 gallons). We pitch the Westmalle strain at 300-310 Billion with good results each time.

 

[itsratso]

The Westy 12 is an ale. You may be reading the lager column.

Ale at 1.090 has a pitch of 338 Billion per 5 gallons with a -20% under-pitch of 270 Billion, (per 5 gallons). We pitch the Westmalle strain at 300-310 Billion with good results each time.

duh all this talk of lagering times got me confused.

 

[GregKelley]

Well i bottled this one 5 months ago and thought I would crack one to see how it was progressing.
VIrtually no carbonation.
Used 1762 belgian yeast and wonder if the ABV is too high for it to carb the bottles? My Brewmate program indicates 14% ABV

I am thinking of opening them and giving them some more yeast and maybe another dose of dextrose. I would do a test run on a couple of bottles only.

is that ABV an issue for 1762 ? If so can anyone tell me if they had same problem and what yeast would be good for carbing the high ABV beer?

I recently had an issue with an imperial stout that was in a barrel. The yeast wouldn't carbonate. I picked up a packet of dry champagne yeast. I rehydrated and then mixed it up well. I used a 1/4 tsp measuring spoon and dropped some in each one, capped and gave it a spin or two upside down to mix it. If you already have put priming sugar in the bottles, do not put any more in there. If the beer isn't carbonated and you put the right amount of sugar in there, then the sugar isn't consumed yet.

 

[rockdemon]

When using yeast with the priming sugar. Does it only take a little too much to make bottlebombs or the ones that start foaming crazy when uncapping? Ive been supercareful with the safbrew f2 and im thinking of stepping it up just a little bit with the next bottling...


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[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I recently had an issue with an imperial stout that was in a barrel. The yeast wouldn't carbonate. I picked up a packet of dry champagne yeast. I rehydrated and then mixed it up well. I used a 1/4 tsp measuring spoon and dropped some in each one, capped and gave it a spin or two upside down to mix it. If you already have put priming sugar in the bottles, do not put any more in there. If the beer isn't carbonated and you put the right amount of sugar in there, then the sugar isn't consumed yet.

OT Warning. I did the exact same thing using Lalvin champagne yeast with a Barleywine many years ago. It took about 12 months to carbonate but it eventually turned out great. It was like sweet carbonated Scotch !!!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

duh all this talk of lagering times got me confused.

No problem, brewing is just good fun

 

[el_caro]

I recently had an issue with an imperial stout that was in a barrel. The yeast wouldn't carbonate. I picked up a packet of dry champagne yeast. I rehydrated and then mixed it up well. I used a 1/4 tsp measuring spoon and dropped some in each one, capped and gave it a spin or two upside down to mix it. If you already have put priming sugar in the bottles, do not put any more in there. If the beer isn't carbonated and you put the right amount of sugar in there, then the sugar isn't consumed yet.

Yes that is what i will do. I intend to pick up some red star champagne yeast which is good to 17%ABV. I will just inject some rehydrated yeast into a couple of bottles using a syringe and give it a month. If it works I will do em all. Given I primed with 8gms/litre first time I will not add any dextrose with the test run.

 

[rockdemon]

Yes that is what i will do. I intend to pick up some red star champagne yeast which is good to 17%ABV. I will just inject some rehydrated yeast into a couple of bottles using a syringe and give it a month. If it works I will do em all. Given I primed with 8gms/litre first time I will not add any dextrose with the test run.

Champagne-yeast eey. Great idea. That would probably work much better than the safbrew yeast. Have to get some...


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[Bottoms_Up]

CSI - in your recipes, when you lower the temperature from 55-60 F down to 45 F and leave it for 8 weeks, do you lower the temperature gradually, or crash it directly to that temperature? If you lower it gradually, how much do you lower it by each day? Also, is there any harm in dropping the temperature even further, say to 35-40F? Thanks.

 

[parkerhd36]

well I'm looking into brewing this soon, and I'm too lazy to sit and read this entire thread. Is there anything terribly important that I need to know past the original post and recipe? Thanks in advance for encouraging my laziness

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

CSI - in your recipes, when you lower the temperature from 55-60 F down to 45 F and leave it for 8 weeks, do you lower the temperature gradually, or crash it directly to that temperature? If you lower it gradually, how much do you lower it by each day? Also, is there any harm in dropping the temperature even further, say to 35-40F? Thanks.

We crash the Westy clones down to lager temp overnight.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

well I'm looking into brewing this soon, and I'm too lazy to sit and read this entire thread. Is there anything terribly important that I need to know past the original post and recipe? Thanks in advance for encouraging my laziness

As long as the math is done to hit OG and the ferm temps are maintained, and the pitch rate is very close. There is an award winning Westy 12 recipe below (about 2/3rd's down the page):

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

On first attempt consider using the full pitch rate: (yeast pitching rates doc):
http://www.candisyrup.com/help-docs.html

 

[Bottoms_Up]

We crash the Westy clones down to lager temp overnight.

Thank you. I'll use that approach.

 

[parkerhd36]

As long as the math is done to hit OG and the ferm temps are maintained, and the pitch rate is very close. There is an award winning Westy 12 recipe below (about 2/3rd's down the page):

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

On first attempt consider using the full pitch rate: (yeast pitching rates doc):
http://www.candisyrup.com/help-docs.html

Ya I've looked at the candysyrup recipe as well. Is there a reason to use that recipe over the op?


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[Brewbien]

Ya I've looked at the candysyrup recipe as well. Is there a reason to use that recipe over the op?


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You can try either but CSI has been giving continued support on the Candisyrup recipe as well as consistently testing it. It's also fantastic. Saq hasn't been around for a while so...