Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

[Bottoms_Up]

Should definitely be possible to make another low gravity brew. Look up partygyle and you should find all the info you need.

Thanks - I'll do a search for partygyle.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Thanks - I'll do a search for partygyle.

Well, I did some research and some calculations, and it appears that the Westy will take up almost all of the gravity points in the grain. There might be enough left in the grains for a quart or two, but that's hardly worthwhile. The partygyle approach seems to be more applicable to a beer such as barleywine, where about 30 pounds of grain are used for 5 gallons, rather than about 18 pounds as for the Westy.

 

[GregKelley]

Im dumping the low FG westy today and tomorrow ill try the new world recipe once more. I want to try a three rest infusion mash this time. You have one on your recipe(abt12) page, 10 min at 124 f, 50 min at 148 and 15 min at 170. Do you think its a good idea? The reason that im trying this multimalt version is simply put my need for vengeance and because i bought all those malts and want to use them...

Don't dump it, I'll take it!

 

[Bottoms_Up]

CSI - I couldn't find this anywhere, but how much liquid volume is in each D-180 packet?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

CSI - I couldn't find this anywhere, but how much liquid volume is in each D-180 packet?

10.2 fluid ounces = 1.0 lb.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

10.2 fluid ounces = 1.0 lb.

Thank you!

Today's my brew day for this beer. Looking forward to tasting a tiny sample of D-180.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

My brew went well today, despite a stuck drain from the mash that required re-stirring. The most disappointing part was the resultant specific gravity. Although I followed the recipe quite closely, my O.G. was 1.080 rather than 1.090. I'm not sure why, although I did overestimate the amount of trub by a couple of liters, and ended up with a little more post-boil wort than I expected, which diluted the beer down somewhat. This beer actually produces very little trub (I'm used to making ten gallon batches using significantly more hops, rather than five-gallon batches). I was very surprised by how fast the yeast started working. I noticed activity in the fermentation lock after only two hours (I'm also used to making pilsners/lagers, at much lower fermentation temperatures, which requires much more time to see activity).

By the way, I tasted a drop or two of the D180 (and D-90). Very nice flavour! The beet sugar comes through, but also a little fruit taste, like tart plums or prunes.

 

[bolus14]

Those tart plum and prune notes should become a little more prominent in the finished product. I also pick up on some raisin taste when I use 90. I have always found the flavors to be more like molasses and brown sugar like before being boiled then change to the dark stone fruits after fermenting. Could be the yeast coming through to.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Yes, I also picked up the raisin notes in the D-90. I look forward to these dark fruits coming through in the finished product. I'm now working on getting the fermentation up to 82 F, and have covered the carboy with a blanket. I just haven't figured out how to measure the temperature of the wort. My electronic thermometer doesn't fit into the neck of the carboy, and it's probe is far too short. Is there such a thing as a thermometer with a long probe of about 8-10 inches? With all the beer gadgets, you would have thought that someone would have designed such a handy tool by now.

 

[rockdemon]

Yes, I also picked up the raisin notes in the D-90. I look forward to these dark fruits coming through in the finished product. I'm now working on getting the fermentation up to 82 F, and have covered the carboy with a blanket. I just haven't figured out how to measure the temperature of the wort. My electronic thermometer doesn't fit into the neck of the carboy, and it's probe is far too short. Is there such a thing as a thermometer with a long probe of about 8-10 inches? With all the beer gadgets, you would have thought that someone would have designed such a handy tool by now.

Why not use a stick-on thermometer. I have one on each carboy. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...KA63Mel1mF-EZ9CfdRlmYU6Hq3jADbbOkqZ0MH3qlA6Hw


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[Bottoms_Up]

Why not use a stick-on thermometer. I have one on each carboy. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...KA63Mel1mF-EZ9CfdRlmYU6Hq3jADbbOkqZ0MH3qlA6Hw

I thought about that, but I read that they are not very accurate, since they pick up some of the temperature of the air outside the carboy. Thus they could indicate a temperature several degrees lower than the interior wort temperature. But I suppose it could give a relative indication.

 

[rockdemon]

I thought about that, but I read that they are not very accurate, since they pick up some of the temperature of the air outside the carboy. Thus they could indicate a temperature several degrees lower than the interior wort temperature. But I suppose it could give a relative indication.

Yeah if you want pinpoint accuracy theyre probably not that great. I dont have accuracy in any part of my brewing after the boil so a few degrees off is ok by me


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[orangehero]

You wouldn't think that they are accurate but I have found that the stick-on thermometers measure the temperature of beer inside a carboy very accurately, no more than 1-2°F off. You just have to be careful to not get them wet, or cover them with a layer of clear tape.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Thanks for the advice, rockdemon and orangehero. I've ordered a stick-on thermometer and will be picking it up tonight.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

After only 22 hours of fermentation, the temperature was already up to 80 F. It rose to 83 F a couple of hours later, so I had to remove the blankets wrapped around the carboy (room temperature 75 F). A lot of the foam was siphoning out through my blow-off tube, so I replaced it with a 1 inch inside diameter (1-1/4" OD) clear plastic tube that just snugly fit into the mouth of the carboy - can't get any larger than that. That seems to work -- for now, anyway. The stick-on thermometer shows 81 F (only goes up to 82 F) while the meat thermometer (taped probe to side of carboy and covered with insulation, and that in turn covered by the blanket) shows 83 F. I'm not sure which is more reliable.

 

[sweetcell]

I'm currently making a yeast starter, and am planning to brew the "New World" recipe on Tuesday (have all the ingredients). I was wondering - since this uses enough grain to make 10 gallons of lower gravity beer, and since we are basically just using the "first runnings" of the mash, would there be enough sugar left in the grain after drawing out what is needed for the Westy to make 2 or 3 gallons of lower gravity beer (say S.G. of about 1.048) if more water was sparged through the grain? Has anyone tried this?

Well, I did some research and some calculations, and it appears that the Westy will take up almost all of the gravity points in the grain. There might be enough left in the grains for a quart or two, but that's hardly worthwhile. The partygyle approach seems to be more applicable to a beer such as barleywine, where about 30 pounds of grain are used for 5 gallons, rather than about 18 pounds as for the Westy.

there will still be sugar in there. after you've collected all your wort for the westie, shut off the output valve of your mash-tun, add some more 170*F sparge water and let it sit for a half hour or hour. the resultant "Second runnings" will be of higher gravity than if you took them immediately after completing the primary run-off.

whenever i do a second runnings beer, i always have some extract on hand. if the gravity isn't high enough, throw in some DME or LME.

i like partigyle brewing... it's completely flying by the seat of your pants. you gotta roll with whatever is thrown at you, it can't be predicted.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

there will still be sugar in there. after you've collected all your wort for the westie, shut off the output valve of your mash-tun, add some more 170*F sparge water and let it sit for a half hour or hour. the resultant "Second runnings" will be of higher gravity than if you took them immediately after completing the primary run-off.

whenever i do a second runnings beer, i always have some extract on hand. if the gravity isn't high enough, throw in some DME or LME.

i like partigyle brewing... it's completely flying by the seat of your pants. you gotta roll with whatever is thrown at you, it can't be predicted.

Thank you. I wasn't aware that a significant amount of sugar can still be leached from the grains if left standing long enough. I'll give that a try next time - and have some DME on hand just in case. Might be able to get a light beer out of it, in which I can throw in some of my left-overs and see what happens.

I'm also thinking of brewing a high gravity wort and canning it for addition (rather than using expensive DME) if my gravity isn't high enough for any beer, such as it was for the Westy. I've heard pros and cons of doing that, and some suggest that it should only be done if using a pressure cooker/canner. Anyone try this?

 

[FredTheNuke]

I'd probably mirror butterpants' statement on this. There's a range of CO2 volumes for Quads. The Westvleteren 12 seems to be in the 2.5-2.6 range although it is claimed to be higher.

I guess mine got a little fat on the 5 gallon batch that I kegged. Measured right around 50 psi at 75 degrees F - about 3.44 bar. Somewhere in the 3.5-4.0 volumes of CO2 range. I know that 3.58 volumes of CO2 = 50.0 psi at 75F.

Primed with Simplicity at about 35 grams per gallon - slightly over recommended by CSI.

Anyone have a force carbonation chart up to and including room temperature? Once I cool the keg back down (almost at the end of the 6 weeks at room temp part) I can measure again and see if I need to degas a vol or so out of solution slowly.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Anyone have a force carbonation chart up to and including room temperature? Once I cool the keg back down (almost at the end of the 6 weeks at room temp part) I can measure again and see if I need to degas a vol or so out of solution slowly.

Most such charts only go to 65 F. Here's one that goes to 70F:

http://www.homebrewing.com/reference/carbonation-chart.php

 

[FredTheNuke]

Thanks. I found one that uses the equation to calculate based on your inputs. Link below:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/keg-carbonation-calculator/

 

[rockdemon]

My attemept to make another batch of the new world recipe failed. I wanted a high FG beer(+1020)to mix with my last batch(1006). But this new batch has a gravity of 1011 after 7 days. Even though i did a mashschedule that i thought would be less fermentable.


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[Bottoms_Up]

My attemept to make another batch of the new world recipe failed. I wanted a high FG beer(+1020)to mix with my last batch(1006). But this new batch has a gravity of 1011 after 7 days. Even though i did a mashschedule that i thought would be less fermentable.

Why would you want a higher final gravity?

 

[orangehero]

My attemept to make another batch of the new world recipe failed. I wanted a high FG beer(+1020)to mix with my last batch(1006). But this new batch has a gravity of 1011 after 7 days. Even though i did a mashschedule that i thought would be less fermentable.


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Are you racking to secondary when you're within a few points of your desired FG? Is your thermometer calibrated, accurate, and precise and are you doing a mash-out to arrest conversion?

 

[rockdemon]

Why would you want a higher final gravity?

Cos one batch thats now in secondary has fg 1006. Therefore i wanted another batch with a high fg so i could mix the two into one beer with an fg of around 1014.


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[rockdemon]

Are you racking to secondary when you're within a few points of your desired FG? Is your thermometer calibrated, accurate, and precise and are you doing a mash-out to arrest conversion?

Ive been waiting for about 7 days before racking and readin. Thermometer is calibrated. On this brew i did a mash out at 78C. On the one before i did a 90 min mash at 65C. I think the problem might be the yeast. Ive been using this mix of bottle harvested st. Bernardus and the wyeast high gravity. Perhaps st. B yeast is the problem. A big part of that yeast is probably bottling yeast and that might be some kind of super attenuative yeast. All the beers ive made with this yeast has gone below 1008. So i tries using less yeast for this last one. It worked but i still used too much it seems.


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[CSI - CandiSyrup]

My attemept to make another batch of the new world recipe failed. I wanted a high FG beer(+1020)to mix with my last batch(1006). But this new batch has a gravity of 1011 after 7 days. Even though i did a mashschedule that i thought would be less fermentable.


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What is your pitch rate?

 

[Bottoms_Up]

It's been five days since I brewed the Westy, and it had been fermenting at 79-83F for 4 of those days. I was going to wait another day (five days of fermentation at 79-83 was suggested) but the fermentation had really slowed down after the 4 days, so I took the S.G. this morning, and found it was already at 1.010, a little past when I should have dropped the temperature to 65 F. Fortunately, the glass on the fish tank heater in the water bath had cracked during the night, so the temperature had already dropped a little to about 78 by this morning. I have since taken the carboy out of the bath and moved it to a room with a temperature of about 67 F, close to the suggested 65 F. I tasted a small sample and it was delicious. The Candi-syrup subtleties came through. The overall taste was already similar to a Westy, although it didn't seem to have as much of the bready, caramel flavour as in a true Westy. Hopefully ageing will bring that out.

A question for those who have brewed this or similar beers - should the temperature from fermentation (79-83) to resting be dropped slowly over time, or is it OK to let it cool by natural speed by moving it directly from the warm bath to a room with a temperature of about 65F? Thanks.

 

[rockdemon]

What is your pitch rate?

No idea! Havent got a clue on how to be able to count how many billion cells i have. Dont have a microscope...
Next time ill just use a smack pack of wyeast high gravity and see where that takes me. But itll have to wait. I have about 50liters of low gravity dark belgian beer in the basement now... I will be popular at work cos ill be giving away a majority of it. The rest i will keep there for 10-12 months and see what happens.

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[bolus14]

These big beers need the right pitching rate. I'm from from an experienced brewer but one thing I've learned is when you get around 8% and above brews you need yo make sure your pitching enough yeast and that its good healthy yeast. You can get away with over or under pitching in low ABV beers easier than in the big ones. Also, unless these are going to people who have a good taste for craft/ micro beers they may not pick up on the taste differences of over or under pitched beers.

Unless you're a major brewer none of us know exactly how much yeast were pitching. But, you can use calculators like mrmaltys to get you in the ballpark.

 

[rockdemon]

These big beers need the right pitching rate. I'm from from an experienced brewer but one thing I've learned is when you get around 8% and above brews you need yo make sure your pitching enough yeast and that its good healthy yeast. You can get away with over or under pitching in low ABV beers easier than in the big ones. Also, unless these are going to people who have a good taste for craft/ micro beers they may not pick up on the taste differences of over or under pitched beers.

Unless you're a major brewer none of us know exactly how much yeast were pitching. But, you can use calculators like mrmaltys to get you in the ballpark.

I used some bottleharvested yeast plus a smackpack and did a 3 liter starter with it and that gave me either too much yeast or a yeast that is too "aggressive". Used that mixed yeast for a tripel now. Went from 1070-1005 in 6 days. I really like the idea of using bottleharvested yeast but it seems too hard to calculate the amount and quality o that yeast. So from now on ill just use bought yeast. Atleast until i get more control of my brewing...



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