Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

[meadowstream]

Lots of factors can affect that, one being boil time and the boil off. While the sugars in the kettle will remain the same, the liquid content will concentrate the ratio of sugars to liquid. Just one example.

I have my efficiency set to 68% for my mash but on the latest attempt on my own W12 clone recipe I recorded 70.6% mash efficiency. Once fermentation completed, my final numbers reflect a total efficiency of 78.7% from start to finish. I did a 90 minute mash with a 1.5qt/lb mash ratio. I collected 28L of wort at 1.062 and ended up with 22L of wort an OG of 1.088 after a 90 min boil. Fermentation took around 3 weeks to finish up before I could start crashing it.

79% total efficiency isn't too bad and even I get confused with how the numbers are calculated. That's why I let Beersmith do all of that math stuff. I'd hate to see how my beers turned out if I relied on my algebra skills.

Mash efficiency is just a measure of [actual fermentable sugars from your mash]*100/[fermentable sugars theoretically possible from that mash]

Beersmith [or whatever] will give you theoretical or potential fermentables for a given quantity of grain or adjuncts and then you will measure your SG of your wort before pitching and compare the potential SG with the actual SG.

Boil off just decreases the volume. You need to know the real volume so that you can generate your theoretical SG correctly from your Beersmith (or whatever.)

 

[rockdemon]

Yes, we tried it couple of times and never got a top-cropping yeast. If yours is a top-cropping culture with good krausen you may have something.

Our fermentations attenuated well enough but what we got was a very spicy ale with a profile closer to Orval sans the Brett than St. B. Very spicy with a mild Belgian funk. They were actually very good ales just not the same profile as St. B.

Im at my third starter now. I have a good feeling about this yeast. But ill guess we'll have to wait before we know. Still, its interresting to see what this mixture between st. Sixtus yeast and bottle referm yeast will acomplish. Its propregating and smells nice(at my third step up starter now. 2L). Ill update in a couple of months... And i will harvest the yeast after primary if it has done its job.


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[fo0isclay]

Hi all, enjoying this thread and just purchased all the ingredients to make the "New World" version of the OP.

The recipe calls for:
1.50 lb Dark Belgian Candi Syrup (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8.30 %
0.75 lb Amber Belgian Candi Syrup (40.0 SRM) Sugar 4.43 %

My question is that since I was only able to purchase in 1lb. increments, would it make a huge difference if added 2lbs of the dark belgian and 1lb of the amber belgian? Otherwise I'll just hang on to it for the next batch, because I'm sure this batch is going to be so good i'm going to make it again.

Cheers

 

[tehnick]

I only calculate mash efficiency so I don't know how the other numbers are calculated but if your efficiency goes UP somewhere along the line then the marketing people are involved somehow. You simply cannot gain back what is already lost. Boil off and concentration does not get you anything back. Your losses are cumulative throughout the process.

You are right, you can't get back what is already lost but you can gain in areas and skew the numbers once you do. As I keep brewing, my efficiency goes up as I do things differently here and there. At one point I was getting 65% efficiency so when I started to get dialed in, my recipes were yielding better overall efficiency when the numbers were plugged into Beersmith. Right now I am probably around 70% overall efficiency but my recipes that were tailored to a lower efficiency all of a sudden need to be reworked to match so I don't waste grain.

 

[GregKelley]

My question is that since I was only able to purchase in 1lb. increments, would it make a huge difference if added 2lbs of the dark belgian and 1lb of the amber belgian? Otherwise I'll just hang on to it for the next batch, because I'm sure this batch is going to be so good i'm going to make it again.

Cheers

If you add more sugar it will increase the alcohol %. Also it may dry it out a little more since you are adding an additional .75 lbs of simple sugar. It will also change the taste.

That said, will it still make a good beer? Most likely.

 

[orangehero]

Lots of factors can affect that, one being boil time and the boil off. While the sugars in the kettle will remain the same, the liquid content will concentrate the ratio of sugars to liquid. Just one example.

Assuming you measure the SG and volumes accurately, your efficiency calculations should not be in any way affected by factors like boil time and boil off.

You can skew your numbers if you have sloppy measurement techniques, but that's a different conversation.

 

[rockdemon]

Ive tried the recipe today but something with my calculation went very wrong. I had a 74% preboil eff. But i mustve measured wrong cos at the end i now have an og of 1070! Can i do something about this? Will adding more candysyrup just lower the fg?
The screw up is the boil off i think. I was supposed to get 16 liters but i got 18...


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[sikkingj]

Ive tried the recipe today but something with my calculation went very wrong. I had a 74% preboil eff. But i mustve measured wrong cos at the end i now have an og of 1070! Can i do something about this? Will adding more candysyrup just lower the fg?
The screw up is the boil off i think. I was supposed to get 16 liters but i got 18...


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Boil more, if you have not added the yeast you can continue to boil if down...


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[rockdemon]

Boil more, if you have not added the yeast you can continue to boil if down...


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I had already cooled the wort down(takes some effort for me). Next time ill take a sample right away, cool that down and then measure.

When boiling for another 30-40 minutes, what happens to that 30 min hop addition? Will it only become a bittering hop addition?


I actually ended up with the 16 liters i was aiming for. According to brewersfriend recipe builder i was supposed to get the OG i was foing for. Preboil measurement was 1092. I did the biab with 14 liters. I then added 7 liters of water and boiled it for 90 min, added .750 kg of candisyrup. Why did i end up at Og 1070? Doenst make sense to me...

Seems like -1 Liter of water adds 1.008 G. So if i do the same recipe again but with 12 liters instead of 16 i would get 1096 which sounds good to me.

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[FredTheNuke]

CSI - what would cause the Simplicity to chunk up? Did I freeze/thaw it too many cycles or store it at too hot of a temperature (been in the garage at 82F for about 2 weeks now after being in the freezer for 3 months).

I just finished bottling 10 gallon of Westvleteren 12 clone. At the bottom of the bottling bucket on my second 5 gallon batch there was 20-30 grams (guestimate - maybe a tablespoon full total) of candi syrup solids. I had already bottled those 26 750ml bottles. I went ahead and corked/capped them. We shall see in 2 weeks how much of a difference the chunked sugar made.

 

[fo0isclay]

Racked to secondary after 6 days, ended there @ 1.021, off to the cellar @ 50f. It should keep keep dropping right? How long before I check gravity again and should I drop to a lower temp eventually? OG was 1.094. Already tastes amazing.

 

[fo0isclay]

And yeah I realized I racked to secondary too soon. It had quit bubbling, which I (at the time) thought was a sign it was finished, I now realize that was a wrong assumption. What should I do?

 

[bolus14]

Its fine, just let it keep fermenting and clean up after itself in the secondary. Next time check you gravity a few days in a row and if it doesn't change then rack to secondary. Or, do as some others do and don't move to secondary.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

CSI - what would cause the Simplicity to chunk up? Did I freeze/thaw it too many cycles or store it at too hot of a temperature (been in the garage at 82F for about 2 weeks now after being in the freezer for 3 months).

I just finished bottling 10 gallon of Westvleteren 12 clone. At the bottom of the bottling bucket on my second 5 gallon batch there was 20-30 grams (guestimate - maybe a tablespoon full total) of candi syrup solids. I had already bottled those 26 750ml bottles. I went ahead and corked/capped them. We shall see in 2 weeks how much of a difference the chunked sugar made.

It's possible the radical temp change could have triggered it although I've never seen this happen. Contact us over our site for options.

 

[FredTheNuke]

For anyone that is considering brewing CSI's New World version of this beast please go for it! I brewed 15 gallons on 4/23/14. As of today it is at 2 weeks @72F bottle carbonating (mine spent some additional time at 45F as I got sidetracked). Wow! This stuff is absolutely amazing. Smooth, not even a slight hint of alcohol taste for an 11% brew! Amazing amount of deep flavor from the Belgian syrup and yeast. Epic is a good word for this one. I can't wait to try the 5 gallons that I kegged (it too is at 2 weeks of keg carbonating - 6 more weeks to go and storage temperature time. I'm not tapping it until next year)!

Pic is about 10 minutes in the glass. STILL a nice smooth head!

 

[rockdemon]

Darnit! Tomorrow im giving saqs recipe another go. Got everything except styrian goldings. I have hallertauer, tettnanger, northern brewer and saaz. Which hop would work best as a replacement? The hop sub chart says neither but one must be better than the others...

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Very difficult to replace or substitute Styrian G with commonly available hops. We've used Celeia a few times to boost aroma and it is very close if not better than one of its parents, (Styrian Goldings). We've also tested Saphir as a Styrian improvement bred at the German breeding station at Hopfenforschungszentrum. Very nice aroma hop with similar profile to S.G.

 

[rockdemon]

Very difficult to replace or substitute Styrian G with commonly available hops. We've used Celeia a few times to boost aroma and it is very close if not better than one of its parents, (Styrian Goldings). We've also tested Saphir as a Styrian improvement bred at the German breeding station at Hopfenforschungszentrum. Very nice aroma hop with similar profile to S.G.

Ok, ill wait a few more days with the brew so i get it right. ordered some styrian golding, they say its unusual low alpha acid in them right now because of crappy harvest due to extreme weatherconditions in slovenia this summer. does this mean i should add alittle more styrian than the recipe calls for?

I just love german, ho- researchcenter sounds boring, hopfenforschungzentrum sounds like the place dr frankenstein works

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

i just love german, ho- researchcenter sounds boring, hopfenforschungzentrum sounds like the place dr frankenstein works

roglmao

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Ok, ill wait a few more days with the brew so i get it right. ordered some styrian golding, they say its unusual low alpha acid in them right now because of crappy harvest due to extreme weatherconditions in slovenia this summer. does this mean i should add alittle more styrian than the recipe calls for?

I just love german, ho- researchcenter sounds boring, hopfenforschungzentrum sounds like the place dr frankenstein works

That's true. With aroma hops you may be after the volatile oils more so than alphas. We started using 2013 Celeia in January this year with good aroma results. Most of what's on the market is from 2013.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Ok, ill wait a few more days with the brew so i get it right. ordered some styrian golding, they say its unusual low alpha acid in them right now because of crappy harvest due to extreme weatherconditions in slovenia this summer. does this mean i should add alittle more styrian than the recipe calls for?

I just love german, ho- researchcenter sounds boring, hopfenforschungzentrum sounds like the place dr frankenstein works

Absolutely, the Germans breed and culture hops extremely well.

 

[rockdemon]

That's true. With aroma hops you may be after the volatile oils more so than alphas. We started using 2013 Celeia in January this year with good aroma results. Most of what's on the market is from 2013.

I found this help when i ordered the SG, before it was only called SG now they have the Celeia which you mention and bobek, i chose the bobek kind...
"The Styrian Golding varieties are Savinjski Golding, Celeia and
Bobek, from a brewing point of view Savinjski Goldings are lowest alpha
(2-4% usually), earthy floral (maybe grassy/herbal) with a hint of lemon.
Celeia are slightly higher alpha wise (2.5-5.5% usually) intensely floral
with some lemon. Bobek are the highest alpha wise (4-6%) and are intensely
lemony and piney, and quite floral."


offtopic again, CSI, I noticed that youre working on a Taras Boulba kind of beer... I love Zinnebir, what kind of hops are you using? and what yeast? De La Senne uses three yeast strains or something funky like that...

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I found this help when i ordered the SG, before it was only called SG now they have the Celeia which you mention and bobek, i chose the bobek kind...
"The Styrian Golding varieties are Savinjski Golding, Celeia and
Bobek, from a brewing point of view Savinjski Goldings are lowest alpha
(2-4% usually), earthy floral (maybe grassy/herbal) with a hint of lemon.
Celeia are slightly higher alpha wise (2.5-5.5% usually) intensely floral
with some lemon. Bobek are the highest alpha wise (4-6%) and are intensely
lemony and piney, and quite floral."


offtopic again, CSI, I noticed that youre working on a Taras Boulba kind of beer... I love Zinnebir, what kind of hops are you using? and what yeast? De La Senne uses three yeast strains or something funky like that...

We're going to be working on the Taras Boulba for a while it looks like. When we're close I'll spin a thread so we don't create a tangent here on the Westy 12 thread.

 

[Brewskii]

So... I'm doing this again(CSI v19). I remember being puzzled about the decoctions.

For those that have done it; I realize I need the temperature for the infusion to reach my target temps and I know to boil more than the target volume to be certain to hit my temp ( cool the remainder and re-introduce when at temp).

My question is how long should I be boiling the decoctions for? Is there a standard or rule I don't know?

Btw... Here's my sloppy 2.5 L starter of White Labs Abbey for tomorrow night...View attachment 168514

Way back on page 83 I started discussing my 2nd attempt at brewing CSI's Westy 12 v.19.
I'm pleased to say, even though it stalled and I had to re-start it with a second pitch, it took 1st in the Belgian Strong category in the VA Dominion cup this year out of 21 beers in the category.
Thanks again to CSI and all contributors to this thread!

 

[rockdemon]

Way back on page 83 I started discussing my 2nd attempt at brewing CSI's Westy 12 v.19.
I'm pleased to say, even though it stalled and I had to re-start it with a second pitch, it took 1st in the Belgian Strong category in the VA Dominion cup this year out of 21 beers in the category.
Thanks again to CSI and all contributors to this thread!

Is that the 2 malt version from the candisyrup page?

 

[rockdemon]

Im having some trouble with the amount of yeast for this one. Im doing a 3.2 gallon batch. I have a wyeast high gravity smackpack thats one month old. how much starter? I dont have a stirplate...

Mrmalty.com says i need 193 billion cells, thats a 2.7 liter starter. does it sound about right?

 

[Brewskii]

No, it's the single malt double decoction mash version

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Way back on page 83 I started discussing my 2nd attempt at brewing CSI's Westy 12 v.19.
I'm pleased to say, even though it stalled and I had to re-start it with a second pitch, it took 1st in the Belgian Strong category in the VA Dominion cup this year out of 21 beers in the category.
Thanks again to CSI and all contributors to this thread!

Congratulations on your win!

 

[Colorado68]

I brewed the traditional and it's been chilling (50 degrees) in secondary for 6 weeks. Do you think I should I wait a little longer or should it be good to bottle now? It hit 1.011 when it went into the cooler.

Harvested some yeast during the fist day of fermentation and it's been sitting in the fridge. Should I make a yeast starter from that for bottling or just use something like US05?

Thanks!

 

[rockdemon]

Will the yeast from the bottom of the primary be ok to harvest even thou its such high alcohol in the beer?


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