The Patriots Cheated?!?

[the_bird]

I don't understand why each team doesn't have a room full of video technicians in front of Hi-Def screens analyzing disputed calls in real time. Should not be a reason to be as awful as some coaches are about issuing a challenge.

I'm not sure that they're allowed to. I know they can have someone upstairs looking at the tape and telling the coach whether to throw the flag or not, but I would assume that the League limits what technology they have access to.

 

[olllllo]

I'm not sure that they're allowed to. I know they can have someone upstairs looking at the tape and telling the coach whether to throw the flag or not, but I would assume that the League limits what technology they have access to.

That's my assumption, but how can you possibly prevent someone from signaling covertly.

 

[TheJadedDog]

That's my assumption, but how can you possibly prevent someone from signaling covertly.

That's what is so strange about this, you could do what the Pats were doing without the video camera. Just stick someone in the stands with binoculars or something and have them signal to someone standing on the sidelines.

I thought Shula's comments were interesting the other night; instead of piling on the Pats he basically said, if you're stealing my signals, shame on me. Ironic coming from Shula of all people.

 

[mr x]

Maybe this should be the death of all radio headsets.....

 

[the_bird]

"Hey Coach! My boys down at Bratwursts and Shillelaghs say we should challenge the call!"

 

[user 4295]

I'd admit it was stupid for the Pat's to continue videotaping on the sideline after ALL NFL teams were warned to discontinue the practice, but it is even more stupid for the reason that there really is no competitive edge gained by the practice. It's just as easy for someone on the sideline to visually observe the defensive signals given by the other team and chart them, which is not against NFL rules. The reason you see coaches shield their faces with their clipboards sometimes is because they know people are watching.

The signals are changed from game to game and there are even "dummy" signals being given to try and confuse the opposition as to what the actual signals are. The videotaping is something Bill likes to do so that when he is watching the game film he can try and look for "tendencies" from the opposing coaches for the next time they play them. The signals he sees WILL NOT be used again by the other team. If they do use them again they are fools. There is no way that the taping of the signals could be used during THAT game to gain any competitive advantage. That's why I think it was dumb of the Pats to take the risk in doing it.

With that said, they got caught, they will own up to it, take their lumps and move on and still continue to dominate the league on the field. When you are on top and dominant, even in this time of the NFL trying to create parody in the league, everyone, including the commissioner and little Eric Man-Gina, will be trying to knock you off. They can't do it on the playing field, so they must attempt to do it by other means.

 

[olllllo]

Kind of like the celebration penalty.

Unsportsmanlike conduct:
Brazenly cheating.
15 yards.

 

[Cheesefood]

How arrogant were the Pats? How hard is it to hook someone up with good seats in the first 10 rows and buy them a hand-held high-def camera with a good lens? Why did they need a guy on the field?

Friggin' arrogance. They were defiantly cheating.

But is this any different from the days they'd hire lip readers?

 

[ohiobrewtus]

When it's specifically forbidden in the rulebook, and you have been suspected of it in the past and warned about it several times...then it's about as "ingenious" as wide receivers wearing sticky gloves.

heh heh, sticky gloves.

Have you ever seen The Replacements? One of my favorite lines ever

Gene Hackman (Coach McGinty) lubes up a WR hands with sticky glue

The WR says - "Coach, it looks like I just jacked off an elephant'

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Maybe this should be the death of all radio headsets.....

Actually, it should be the exact opposite. In the offseason the NFL Competition Committee took a vote on middle linebackers having radios in their helment like QB's do - which would have allowed defensive playcalls to come in via radio just like offensive playcalls do now.

The issue needed 24 out of 32 votes to pass, it received 22 votes.

Now that the Patriots have been caught cheating, it will only bring more attention to this issue and I look for headsets to be in play for defensive play calling next year - eliminating the need for baseball type head-patting and crotch-grabbing sidline signals from coaches.

 

[the_Roqk]

Some of you older Pats fans might remember back in the early 80's when the Pats were playing the Dolphins in Foxboro during a snow storm. Coach Ron Meyer sent a member of the grounds crew, a guy on work release from Walpole State Prison, out onto the field with a snow blower to clear a spot for Patriots place kicker John Smith to attempt a field goal. Smith made the kick and the Pats won 3-0. Classic! I call it Yankee Ingenuity, not cheating

That's a part of HOMEFIELD advantage.

 

[mr x]

Yeah, but it also makes it easier for illegally obtained info to be relayed to players and coaches. I say get rid of all the headsets, particularly to the coaches. Technology like this just makes it easier to skirt the rules. Ditch the photos too.

Old school for me, coach it from where it is played, on the ground.

 

[the_bird]

I wish they'd ban the forward pass, too.

 

[mr x]

Don't sweat it, Shawne Merriman and Shaun Phillips are going to take care of that this weekend. hee hee

 

[the_bird]

Don't sweat it, Shawne Merriman ....

Speaking of cheaters ('roids)...

 

[mr x]

I wouldn't talk....ahem.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/story/2007/08/31/harrison-rodney.html?ref=rss

 

[the_bird]

Oh, I know all about Rodney....

Think he juiced back in his San Diego days?

 

[mr x]

The juice was still on the trees back then.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Oh, I know all about Rodney....

Think he juiced back in his San Diego days?

Guys don't play as long as Harrison has played and hit the way that Harrison hits without having the help of some ahem... pills along the way.

 

[the_bird]

I've been hitting it for years and I don't need no stinkin' pills!

Wait, are we still talking about football?

 

[mr x]

Guys don't play as long as Harrison has played and hit the way that Harrison hits without having the help of some ahem... pills along the way.

Probably right, but I gotta believe Ronnie Lott was legit.

 

[mr x]

I've been hitting it for years and I don't need no stinkin' pills!

Wait, are we still talking about football?

lol:rockin:

 

[Evan!]

I've been hitting it for years and I don't need no stinkin' pills!

So that 4-hour+ erection that you were complaining about wasn't from Cialis?

 

[the_bird]

So that 4-hour+ erection that you were complaining about wasn't from Cialis?

What can I say, your mom does strange things to me...

 

[Evan!]

What can I say, your mom does strange things to me...

I'll be the first to tell you, of all the strange things my mom could do to you, giving you a stiffy is not one of them.

 

[kornkob]

I'd admit it was stupid for the Pat's to continue videotaping on the sideline after ALL NFL teams were warned to discontinue the practice, but it is even more stupid for the reason that there really is no competitive edge gained by the practice. It's just as easy for someone on the sideline to visually observe the defensive signals given by the other team and chart them, which is not against NFL rules. The reason you see coaches shield their faces with their clipboards sometimes is because they know people are watching.

See, I don't think so-- yes you can watch the signals but if you can get someone to video tape them, from the sidelines, and put it into context (especially if you also have someone covertly use a directional mic to get some sound to go with the taping) then you can pull the tape at halftime and have some real cryptographers go at the tape in detail. That way your feild operative can be an expert at getting yout eh tape and sound you need and your cyrpto guy cna concentrate on helping you understand. Then in the last half you can work it the other way: record live and transmit to someone who can really read the signals.


Also, it seems likely that the signals will change but probably in a simple pattern. If you can start to recognize that pattern it becomes a bigger deal. In fact, that might be the trick of it right there. If you teach them a simple one off code you could vary the signals even within a game and learning the pattern of that varience might be all you need to crack the code wide open. This actually woudl be easier for the players too--- instead of having to recall a new code every week, if you just had to be able to speak the language then the code doesn't change-- you just read what's being said.


Like this: I need to tell you 12. Instead I say b14---- you know that the code means B = 2 and I should subtract 2 from 14 to get the real number. Now it doesn't matter what day it is or where we are, I can always tell you a number without people nearby really knowing what it is. However, learning the pattern of that as an outside observer gets complicated. Enter recording devices.

And that kind of shift code can be made more complicated by adding a layer or making hand position important.

I'm just saying--- could be tactically relevant or startegically relevant.

 

[the_bird]

I'm going to start using that code when giving out recipes.

"Oh, a stout? You want to use c3.5 pounds of black patent."

 

[ohiobrewtus]

What can I say, your mom does strange things to me...

I thought it was only Cheese's mom that did that to you?

 

[Flyin' Lion]

The punishment has been handed down:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070914/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_nfl_spying;_ylt=Aoi.Rmwah3ycCbc_TBGnYakDW7oF

Although by the time everyone reads this, it should be common knowledge.

 

[joebou4860]

good! let's focus on beating that whiny LT now.