The green apple/alum taste after 3 weeks

[Rairdog]

I am still getting that lemony green apple aluminum after taste from kegged beer that doesn't seem to go away. It's not bad but it needs addressed. I just figured it was green beer and it needed to age more. The quick turnaround Hefe's seem to go through phases. At day 10 it's not bad and then it comes back at day 14. The APA is somewhat hidden by hops buts shows up in mouthfeel after a couple beers even after 21 days. I have not aged them more than 3 weeks thus far.

I am thinking the ph of my water needs some acid malt or lactic acid. You really don't notice after one or two beers....but it builds up. My cheap chinese ph meter will register 6.3 on the mash but it is not consistent at 7.0 with distilled water.

It is well water and a ph of 8.2-8.4 depending on time of year. At this time of year I'm not funded to go RO but 1/2 and 1/2 seems like a good option.

 

[Rhaop]

I don't think you can calibrate your meter with distilled water, someone correct me, also do not go by the ph of your well water send a sample to a lab for actual mineral concentrations and use water calculators to determine what your acid additions should be or if you need to dilute with RO water

 

[Rhaop]

Search posts by brungard and ajdelange all the water chemistry info you will ever need

 

[Rairdog]

I don't think you can calibrate your meter with distilled water, someone correct me, also do not go by the ph of your well water send a sample to a lab for actual mineral concentrations and use water calculators to determine what your acid additions should be or if you need to dilute with RO water

It was calibrated at 4.00 and 6.86 with distilled water and powder provided. It would bounce back at 7.0 when rinsed in distilled water.

I would like to be able to afford Martin...but living on a river that's 100 yds from my well makes that costly. It changes throughout the year but tastes better than any city or bottled water.

 

[Rhaop]

It was calibrated at 4.00 and 6.86 with distilled water and powder provided. It would bounce back at 7.0 when rinsed in distilled water.



I would like to be able to afford Martin...but living on a river that's 100 yds from my well makes that costly. It changes throughout the year but tastes better than any city or bottled water.

Ahh okay understood, give this page a read this should be an affordable test you can use on brew day and get you pretty close numbers regardless on time of year and water changing

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=At_home_water_testing

 

[Bellybuster]

For your off flavour I'd be looking at ferment temps.
Some details on that?? Are you temp controlled?

 

[RM-MN]

I am still getting that lemony green apple aluminum after taste from kegged beer that doesn't seem to go away. It's not bad but it needs addressed. I just figured it was green beer and it needed to age more. The quick turnaround Hefe's seem to go through phases. At day 10 it's not bad and then it comes back at day 14. The APA is somewhat hidden by hops buts shows up in mouthfeel after a couple beers even after 21 days. I have not aged them more than 3 weeks thus far.

I am thinking the ph of my water needs some acid malt or lactic acid. You really don't notice after one or two beers....but it builds up. My cheap chinese ph meter will register 6.3 on the mash but it is not consistent at 7.0 with distilled water.

It is well water and a ph of 8.2-8.4 depending on time of year. At this time of year I'm not funded to go RO but 1/2 and 1/2 seems like a good option.

A pH of 6.3 isn't good for brewing. I'd probably first try to adjust that with some acid. If that doesn't change the flavors, then you probably need to bite the bullet and buy water for your brewing, either spring water or RO water that is adjust by you with the correct minerals to get good brewing water.

 

[JonM]

Does your grocery store have one of those machines for distilled water? Those are usually about 35 cents/gallon. I just lug a couple fermenters over there and fill 'em up. It's well worth the 2 or 3 bucks to have good water.

 

[Rairdog]

For your off flavour I'd be looking at ferment temps.
Some details on that?? Are you temp controlled?

I've done 5-5ga batches and they all stayed between 62-66. That was outside of the bucket.

A pH of 6.3 isn't good for brewing. I'd probably first try to adjust that with some acid. If that doesn't change the flavors, then you probably need to bite the bullet and buy water for your brewing, either spring water or RO water that is adjust by you with the correct minerals to get good brewing water.

That's what I was thinking. I will read up on acid malt and other acid treatments. The 5.2 adjustment seems to have mixed reviews.

Does your grocery store have one of those machines for distilled water? Those are usually about 35 cents/gallon. I just lug a couple fermenters over there and fill 'em up. It's well worth the 2 or 3 bucks to have good water.

I plan to try that next batch. The pet store also has RO water.


I didn't seem that noticeable first couple batches. I saved slurry (unwashed) from those. A WY3068 for Hefe's and WY1332 for APA's. I also have all kinds of other fermented foods in the same fridge including; sourdough, kimchi, pickles and peppers. From what I read they lacto shouldn't jump but I can't find much on the subject. I am going to use S-06 and S-05 for the next couple batches.

 

[JonM]

I have no way of knowing for sure, of course, but if I had a choice, I'd bet the pet store has the better water just because their water is for people with expensive fish tanks and they're likely to have more demanding standards than the grocery store.

 

[Rairdog]

I have no way of knowing for sure, of course, but if I had a choice, I'd bet the pet store has the better water just because their water is for people with expensive fish tanks and they're likely to have more demanding standards than the grocery store.

Ya, the pet store has a pretty elaborate and faster system. There is usually a line with guys bringing in 10-5 gal bottles.

Here is my BIAB process.

Fill kettle with 5.5g and bring to 160f.
Add bag and grain. Mash at 151-154 for 1 hr.


Then I pull bag, put on grates over kettle an slowly pour 2.35g of 170f.

Maybe this step is picking up some tannins?


Next I squeeze the grains with the lid. Perhaps skips this step?

Then it's a 60 min boil/hops.

I chill it to 65-70f with immersion chiller. That usually takes 20 min.

I noticed the oxidation on my copper chiller seems to come off immediately when sterilizing in the boiling wort.

 

[RM-MN]

Maybe this step is picking up some tannins?

If your mash pH really is 6.3 this is a possibility although your description of the taste doesn't align with what most of us would get from tannins.

 

[Rairdog]

If your mash pH really is 6.3 this is a possibility although your description of the taste doesn't align with what most of us would get from tannins.

Sorry, ph of 6.3 was at the end of boil. I will get some calibrating powder and check it at end of mash next batch.

After more reading it does seem to have a tea or persimmon skin after taste.

The SWMBO has been using oxyclean on the alum so we are going to eliminate that process. The pot still looks fairly oxidized.

Back to more reading. Thanks for helping all.

 

[Rairdog]

I think it might be oxidation. I bought a new tube for my racking cane which is sightly loose where it slides over the end of the cane. I racked a beer tonight and there were air bubbles coming in at this connection and a big air gap from the end of the cane for about 8 in. in the tube. I put a clamp on the connection, the air bubbles stopped and the air gap went away.

Does this make sense for the off flavor?

The keg of Hefe was green tasting at first but got better. Then at around 2 weeks it tasted good like a Paulaner. Then I noticed and off flavor which got worse. The two previous kegs were racked with a different tube. I used that for a blow off tube and and bought a new tube for the cane. The APA I am drinking now has a slight metallic taste but it somewhat hidden by the bittering hops.

 

[Rairdog]

any opinions?