The fraud that has become decoction

[40yr@HB]

Wtf man?! I thought we all did that. What's next? You all going to tell me you don't rub your bellies and pat your heads after each hop addition??

What a bunch of !!!

Might have to try that.

 

[40yr@HB]

I'm all for a head that sticks with a FG < 25% OG.
So if the extra time for a decoc step does it?
Worth it for me.

 

[hottpeper13]

My first decocted beer was a Check Pils and was a double. I scored 45 at 2017 NHC. What a long brew day! Let's try that with a single decoction; not the same beer. The only time I do a single one is when doughing in at 154* for my big bocks, this brings a step also to 172* for awesome head.

 

[dmtaylor]

My first decocted beer was a Check Pils and was a double. I scored 45 at 2017 NHC. What a long brew day! Let's try that with a single decoction; not the same beer. The only time I do a single one is when doughing in at 154* for my big bocks, this brings a step also to 172* for awesome head.

Awesome.

I myself am hesitant to credit decoction as being super important, but I'll admit, the best lager I ever made was in fact triple decocted. That was many years ago. My lagers since then have been hit or miss, usually pretty good but never as great as that one from years ago. Hmm............

 

[Bassman2003]

I have come to the realization that the only way to know is to start doing them. I will make it as easy as possible, but I want to know for me, if it is worth it or not.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've done maybe four decoction brews in 17 years and haven't liked any of them. I'm sure it's user error.

 

[40yr@HB]

What really helped mine was after 50F primary (FG < 25% OG), do a diacetyl rest for several days, at house temp (72F). Same container, no transfer.
That cleared out the butter bigtime.
Then transfer to serving keg.

 

[beersk]

If you are looking for "float a bottle cap on the foam" type head, 4% Carafoam and a 15 min rest at 72°C in your step mash regime will do it. The 4% Carafoam and glycoprotein rest will give you a dense rocky foam in spades.

Alright hold on. A regime is the Third Reich. What you're talking about is a REGIMEN.

Is decoction mashing making a comeback? What the hell is all this noise!

 

[day_trippr]

Seriously, in all my years here I've never seen so much traffic on the topic of decoction.
All the cool kids seem to be wanting to know about it lately....

Cheers! (...and "wth?" )

 

[40yr@HB]

:::having an Octoberfest Marzen::: with very little diacetyl btw.

 

[doug293cz]

What really helped mine was after 50F primary (FG < 25% OG), do a diacetyl rest for several days, at house temp (72F). Same container, no transfer.
That cleared out the butter bigtime.
Then transfer to serving keg.

:::having an Octoberfest Marzen::: with very little diacetyl btw.

What, if anything, do these have to do with the decoction discussion?

Brew on

 

[burtom]

My question is when you do decoction how thin a mash are you using? When I do it for flavor, I am basically boiling a pot of grain with just enough water to make the boil look like lava bubbles leaving craters when they surface and frequently lifting whole sections of the grain up as steam tries to come through.

 

[Dland]

Never did a decoction mash, have been able to achieve desired brews w simple mash in. But hardly surprising that a different mashing process would produce different results. I think it is cool there are so many avenues (or rabbit holes) we can go down to brew the beer we want to drink.

In any case, have read this thread through, and appreciate the mostly informative and friendly discourse. Amusing and edifying.

Also it is good to realize in any pursuit like this, for some the process can be as or more important than the results.

 

[40yr@HB]

Takes practice to avoid the over "over the top caramelly, malt and melanoiden laden beer" (huckdavidson above) and throw in the extra diacetyl from the malt. Difficult to get the flav just right with decoction.

 

[OleBrewing]

Seriously, in all my years here I've never seen so much traffic on the topic of decoction.
All the cool kids seem to be wanting to know about it lately....

Cheers! (...and "wth?" )

and i am over here thinking about i haven't been able to brew in over a year.

 

[dmtaylor]

What, if anything, do these have to do with the decoction discussion?

Brew on

Yeah... um... nothing.

 

[MaxStout]

Yeah... um... nothing.

Their AI bot needs some tweaking.

 

[hottpeper13]

It's my understanding that most of the enzymes are in the liquid portion of the mash so this is my take.
Using the big strainer I fill it and let the liquid drain then dump in decoction kettle. I add enough brewing liquor so stirring isn't hard and raise the temp to the next step,rest 10-20 min then boil for 20-30 min. The added water seems to make up for the evaporation from the boil.

 

[Bassman2003]

Interesting approach. With efficiency gains from the process, the odds of adding water to meet a gravity target are probably high, so why not add some new water to the decoction kettle and leave as much mash water in the mash.

 

[huckdavidson]

A Dutch oven works very well for boiling decoctions. I've stepped 10-12 lbs of grain using a 9 quart dutch oven though I'm sure a 5 - 5.5 quart would work as well. That is all, carry on.

 

[elproducto]

I found capping the spunding valve with 4 points left in fermentation does wonders for my carbonation.

 

[Witherby]

The stats are different on those beers, ABV, IBU which most likely affects tasting differences. Can't find malt listings or mash process for those beers on their website.

The most recent episode of the Craft series Beer and Brewing podcast is with Hagen Dost, co-founder of Dovetail in Chicago. In explaining why they decoct their lagers, he tells a story about his time in brewing school in Germany when they got to brew with the same recipes and ingredients on the Hacker pilot system and could directly compare the commercial version. The pilot system had direct fired kettles and mash tuns, did decoctions, and open fermentation. The decocted version was maltier (his word).

Podcast Episode 332: Chicago’s Dovetail Finds Harmony and Cohesion in their Modern Approach to Traditional Methods

According to another interview, “our kettle is direct-fired. When we boil and do decoction, we’re actually heating and boiling with fire to get a maillard reaction. That’s kind of the same thing you get when you put a steak on a grill. We feel that gives it a little more complexity of flavor.”
Traditional Brewing with Northcenter's Dovetail Brewery

Definitely recommend the podcast. Lots to think about if you are, like me, a decidedly high oxygen lager brewer with decoctions and open fermentation more in the vain of small Franconian breweries.

He also mentions that Narziss tried to convince Pilsner Urquell to switch from decoction to step mashing. Guess you can’t be right all of the time.

 

[Civilian]

That was a great podcast, next time I go to Chicago I'm going to check them out (my daughter is in vet school there).