Thank you Anvil for making me even lazier

[RPh_Guy]

I have used a plate in the past and in my opinion there is more of a risk of not properly sterilizing that vs near boiling wort going directly into a SS fermenter that I sprayed down with Starsan

I also don't use a plate chiller
I take contaminating risk very seriously.

There was just another thread here about a no-chill contamination a couple days ago.

On top of the other issues, no thanks.

 

[Birdgunner]

I also don't use a plate chiller
I take contaminating risk very seriously.

There was just another thread here about a no-chill contamination a couple days ago.

On top of the other issues, no thanks.

I only mentioned the plate as point of reference that years ago I did chill my worts in the more traditional sense, not implying you use one or don't take sanitation serious but humor me, what are the other issues associated with no chill that you have concerns with? Promise, you could bash no chill all you want and I won't get offended but I am curious as to your perspective.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The main issues with no-chill:
1. Increased contamination risk.
2. Increased bitterness from late hop additions and/or loss of aroma/flavor from mid-late hop additions. You have ways to work around this, but I'd prefer to keep things simple and predictable.
3. Contrary to low oxygen brewing.

 

[Birdgunner]

Fair enough. We could debate the first two but I will completely agree with you on your third point. It concerns me esp. with real hoppy brews. In thinking about this I was meaning to add a gas port to my Anvils so I guess if did actually get around to doing it I could add a blanket of CO2 to the fermenters prior to transferring and then direct transfer from the kettle into the fermenter through the airlock hole, plug and purge and should be a marked improvement as well as closed loop into the kegs. Thanks for your response, it got me thinking and a plan!

 

[RPh_Guy]

That'll help, but it will pull in a bunch of air as it's cooling.

I was more referring to LODO brewing (preserving fresh malt flavor), which recommends that you chill rapidly and pitch healthy yeast to minimize risk of wort oxidation. ...So there is risk of both malt and hop oxidation (if you're trying to preserve the fresh malt flavors).
There are also issues with cold break affecting stability.

 

[Birdgunner]

Brother I applaud you if you adhere to LODO methods and it has improved your beers. Personally (hence the title of this thread) it is the opposite direction of my brewing philosophy and feel that an individual can make some killer brews in a more simplistic manner but that is just me. I definitely appreciate how you think though, we will have to discuss Stokes law and gelatin vs cold break someday in relation to stability but then again I don't have kegs last more than 3-4 weeks so that might just be an academic discussion for the heck of it! haha

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’m thinking about doing a no chill neipa by adding the whirlpool hops at 170 and cooling overnight, then removing hops in the am.

Anyone tried this? I think I’ll get more bitterness out of it, but i like that idea (I’ll skip my usual buttering addition in the boil). The issue of oxidizing all the hop oils while it cools overnight Pre fermentation is a bit foggy to me... I mean I typically chill my neipas to 85F then let it cool to pitching temps overnight anyways ( my ground water isn’t cold enough). And I don’t have issues with oxidation. Plus I typically oxygenate my wort prior to pitching which also doesn’t seem to degrade my neipas.

Hmm it seems to me like no chill with lots of whirlpool hops should work fine.

Maybe I’ll really make it easy: No chill, no boil, DME! Just dissolve the DME in my water at 170F add a huge whirlpool addition, seal it up and WALK AWAY!! Then pitch in the am and dry hop the crap out of it per usual. Closed transfer to keg and that’s it!

 

[Ninoid]

I always use factory processed malt and always brew no chill and have never had a problem with DMS or infection because of it. Hop for the bitterness I put FWH, and for the aroma dryhop. I believe cooling wort is safer, but I don't believe no chill beer is worse.

If you have no conditions or are lazy to cool a wort you will surely get a very good beer with no chill.

 

[Birdgunner]

I’m thinking about doing a no chill neipa by adding the whirlpool hops at 170 and cooling overnight, then removing hops in the am.


Anyone tried this? I think I’ll get more bitterness out of it, but i like that idea (I’ll skip my usual buttering addition in the boil). The issue of oxidizing all the hop oils while it cools overnight Pre fermentation is a bit foggy to me... I mean I typically chill my neipas to 85F then let it cool to pitching temps overnight anyways ( my ground water isn’t cold enough). And I don’t have issues with oxidation. Plus I typically oxygenate my wort prior to pitching which also doesn’t seem to degrade my neipas.


Hmm it seems to me like no chill with lots of whirlpool hops should work fine.


Maybe I’ll really make it easy: No chill, no boil, DME! Just dissolve the DME in my water at 170F add a huge whirlpool addition, seal it up and WALK AWAY!! Then pitch in the am and dry hop the crap out of it per usual. Closed transfer to keg and that’s it!

YES I HAVE! I am currently enjoying my third NEIPA batch with this method (No boil, no chill, no aeration) with outstanding results (zero DMS detected) but as you alluded to, if you whirlpool at the 170 ish range and leave it in the fermenter it will have a more pronounced IBU bite vs whirlpooling below 160 in your boil kettle and leaving for a set time before transferring to the fermenter…having done both and both resulting in very approachable brews it really just comes down to personal preference, for me at this stage in the summer and having gone through 25 gals of NEIPA (wow that sounds bad!lol) I am enjoying the more subdued version achieved with lower whirlpool temp for 30mins, transferring to the fermenter, hit it with a blanket of CO2, once it gets to below 100F adding the Hornidal, hit it again with CO2, 24 hours later adding in the dry hop load, another hit of CO2 and then 3 days later closed transfer into a CO2 filled keg with another dry hop loaded in a hop sock, carb at high pressure for 10hrs then purge, set to 12psi and start enjoying.

Trust me, you can make an amazing beer with no chill, no boil, no aeration, grain to glass in 5 days. Good luck!

 

[beersk]

I can't imagine shelf life on that beer is very long. You have to make sure to drink the keg inside of a month I'd think. Otherwise, it sounds too good to be true...

 

[Shwagger]

1 home built vertical wood brew stand
2 plate chillers
Tap water in one
Ice water in the second
Sub 80 degree wort in 3 to 5 minutes
Then it goes into the ferm fridge set at fermentation temps
Add yeast the next day

Its all gravity fed and 1 wort pump(because of plate chillers)

 

[Schlenkerla]

YES I HAVE! I am currently enjoying my third NEIPA batch with this method (No boil, no chill, no aeration) with outstanding results (zero DMS detected) but as you alluded to, if you whirlpool at the 170 ish range and leave it in the fermenter it will have a more pronounced IBU bite vs whirlpooling below 160 in your boil kettle and leaving for a set time before transferring to the fermenter…having done both and both resulting in very approachable brews it really just comes down to personal preference, for me at this stage in the summer and having gone through 25 gals of NEIPA (wow that sounds bad!lol) I am enjoying the more subdued version achieved with lower whirlpool temp for 30mins, transferring to the fermenter, hit it with a blanket of CO2, once it gets to below 100F adding the Hornidal, hit it again with CO2, 24 hours later adding in the dry hop load, another hit of CO2 and then 3 days later closed transfer into a CO2 filled keg with another dry hop loaded in a hop sock, carb at high pressure for 10hrs then purge, set to 12psi and start enjoying.

Trust me, you can make an amazing beer with no chill, no boil, no aeration, grain to glass in 5 days. Good luck!
View attachment 638859

How long are you mashing out and how high a temp?

Do you check your pH? If so, are you right at 5.2?

What about your mash process how do dough in? Underlet or pour on top of the grain?

Also, how often do you stir during your mash.?

What about sparging? Sparge or No Sparge?

I can't imagine shelf life on that beer is very long. You have to make sure to drink the keg inside of a month I'd think. Otherwise, it sounds too good to be true...

If he mashes out high for a while it's like pasteurizing. Also if he hits a low pH 5.2 or lower he's rather well protected acidically. Then the CO2 and closed transfer helps keep the hop aroma.

Mashing in with underletting, little to no stirring, with a closed no splash recirc, and no sparging will help retain malt flavor.

FWIW - I'm following a standard mash (typically step and no sparge, just a mash out), boil, chill and close transfer. Along with spunding for carbonation.

Low Oxygen Brewing
- So anti-HSA during the mash.
- Low Intensity Boil.
- No Whirlpool (No Stirring) but fast chill.
- Starters even with dry yeast
- Closed transfers during kegging
- Spund for carbonation.

I keg ales on day 3 after pitching.

 

[beersk]

Oh yes, I'm quite familiar with low O2 brewing. I picked it up almost immediately after it "came out" a few years ago. I was one of those super obnoxious people that proselytized it for a while, then I grew up a little. I did it for a couple years, burned myself out on brewing, now I've been keeping it simple and not doing low O2 lately.

I was also thinking to do a 20 minute rest holding the wort in the boil kettle at 170F after vorlaufing and running off, to pasteurize. And also add lactic or phosphoric acid to the kettle to lower the pH. But still worried about shelf stability. I may try it one day yet, just for kicks. But probably on a small batch.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Oh yes, I'm quite familiar with low O2 brewing. I picked it up almost immediately after it "came out" a few years ago. I was one of those super obnoxious people that proselytized it for a while, then I grew up a little. I did it for a couple years, burned myself out on brewing, now I've been keeping it simple and not doing low O2 lately.

I was also thinking to do a 20 minute rest holding the wort in the boil kettle at 170F after vorlaufing and running off, to pasteurize. And also add lactic or phosphoric acid to the kettle to lower the pH. But still worried about shelf stability. I may try it one day yet, just for kicks. But probably on a small batch.

LoL - I think I know who you're talking about there. I had the same initial experience. I thought, "Who is this obnoxious and arrogant person?".

To my knowledge has no sense of humor.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Inspired by this - going to do my first no chill tomorrow. Recipe is a helles that only has FWH and 60min addition. I’m guessing I’ll only get a couple more IBus from doing it no chill
So I’m basically not gonna change a thing about it: boil for 60, flame out, pump to the anvil right away. Put it in my fridge and pitch the next morning. How simple!

Any practical tips like? Like could the heat loosen up the racking arm?

 

[beersk]

Inspired by this - going to do my first no chill tomorrow. Recipe is a helles that only has FWH and 60min addition. I’m guessing I’ll only get a couple more IBus from doing it no chill
So I’m basically not gonna change a thing about it: boil for 60, flame out, pump to the anvil right away. Put it in my fridge and pitch the next morning. How simple!

Any practical tips like? Like could the heat loosen up the racking arm?

The racking arm in what, a SS Brewbucket or what in particular?

 

[ProblemChild]

With 90deg tap water in the summer chilling takes forever even with a pre chiller. I have heavily considered no chill. Planning on buying a Anvil or Ss Brewtech.

To that end, I made a pre-chiller that I place over the top of a small fish pump and add ice to the water. Summertime tap water comes out in the 45 degree range. I use two -liter bottles with the tops cut off to make big ice blocks. Summer chilling takes 8 blocks of ice and 10 minutes.

 

[ihavenonickname]

The racking arm in what, a SS Brewbucket or what in particular?

I mean in the anvil brew bucket - it screws in to place with a plastic/silicone washer that I think could be prone to loosening... might not be an issue. My anvil bucket has just never seen so much heat so I wouldn’t see how it’ll handle it

 

[beersk]

Oh duh, that's what this thread is about... I do not have the answer for you in regards to that.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I mean in the anvil brew bucket - it screws in to place with a plastic/silicone washer that I think could be prone to loosening... might not be an issue. My anvil bucket has just never seen so much heat so I wouldn’t see how it’ll handle it

Correct, it works. I have two of them. Neither leak.

Oh duh, that's what this thread is about... I do not have the answer for you in regards to that.

Correct,

That's what this thread is about? Unless it's about what doesn't work. If that's the case I've been wasting my time. I don't want to know what doesn't work. If something doesn't work I don't want to know about it so I don't accidently do it when I'm drunk, but don't know I'm drunk, because I might do something stupid that doesn't work, because I thought it did work, when it actually doesn't work, and I actually misunderstood the point of this thread.

Makes sense right?

LoL- [emoji2957]

 

[tellyho]

I also just made my first no boil. Not sure it would work for a low-hop beer, but for a NEIPA hop vehicle, it's awesome! If expensive....

 

[beersk]

Correct, it works. I have two of them. Neither leak. Correct,

That's what this thread is about? Unless it's about what doesn't work. If that's the case I've been wasting my time. I don't want to know what doesn't work. If something doesn't work I don't want to know about it so I don't accidently do it when I'm drunk, but don't know I'm drunk, because I might do something stupid that doesn't work, because I thought it did work, when it actually doesn't work, and I actually misunderstood the point of this thread.

Makes sense right?

LoL- [emoji2957]

Haha, ummm makes perfect sense, yeah!