Thank you Anvil for making me even lazier

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Birdgunner

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Or is it more efficient? lol
I stopped chilling wort and been doing the no chill with great success for the last 7 years or so but now with the recent addition of some Anvil fermenters it allows me (safely) to dump the wort right into the fermenter, wait 24 hrs to pitch the yeast...more like sprinkle it on top and let nature do its thing. Not proud to admit this but on occasion I did fill direct from the kettle into glass carboys but this scared the sh*t out of me, knew one day it would catch up to me with a carboy shattering but alas I can now put that risk behind.
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Just carbed my 40th gallon ( a heavy load of lemongrass topped with lemondrop hops yielding a lemon bomb wheat) and it rocks, no off flavors or issues with this or any of the previous concoctions and just about to sprinkle some S05 and Nottingham on a fall amber I made yesterday, so far so good.
Mess with multiple vessels - nope (biac)
Chill wort - nope
Aerate - nope
Deal with glass - never again!

Cheers to those who are lazy like me (the Lemonbomb) and if you are lazier, please share your tips!
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jafo28

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Question for you on this. Do you leave the airlock empty or put sanitizer/vodka in it and not worry about sucking some in?
 
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Birdgunner

Birdgunner

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Give it a try, you'll be hooked. I have to be somewhere around 1000 gallons of no chill and have never had to dump a batch due to off flavors or contamination. The Ss is a very nice fermenter and has solid handles, be perfect for a no chill experiment:D
 

Ninoid

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I always no chill in fermenter (change airlock with stopple) up to 24 hours before sprinkle yeast.
But, before pour from kettle to fermenter drop temperature to 70'C with cold top up water because my fermenter is plastic.
 

Blackdirt_cowboy

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I may have to try this is I ever get an SS fermenter. Chilling the wort is by far my least favorite part of brew day. It only takes me 20 minutes to chill from a boil to lager pitching temps, but still, it’s not enjoyable.
 

Schlenkerla

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I have two Anvils....and never thought of this. I need to put a valve in my kettle.

Chilling is not the problem it's moving 5 gallons that's boiling fricken hot that bothers me.
 

Schlenkerla

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One other thought to the OP.

You don't use pilsner on with a no chill process do you?

No DMS or you boil really vigorous?
 

shoreman

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Pick up some of this yeast and you'll be pitching earlier - I pitched this summer at about 115 degrees (Freedom measurement) with no off flavors.
 

El Nino

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I've seen someone online somewhere that had a method he called 'one pot brewing'. Basically doing his brew in a kettle biab, and then using same kettle as the fermenter straight into the ferm chamber. That might be more lazy since there's no transfer at all until it hits the keg or bottle :D

I guess the downside of that though is you need multiple kettles if you want to do more than 1 batch at a time. Could be cost effective still though if you factor in a similar sized kettle and stainless steel fermenter are not that different cost wise. Heck I think a 5g SS brewtech stainless steel fermenter is more expensive than the 5g kettle I bought for $40 on amazon lol.
 

Schlenkerla

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I always no chill in fermenter (change airlock with stopple) up to 24 hours before sprinkle yeast.
But, before pour from kettle to fermenter drop temperature to 70'C with cold top up water because my fermenter is plastic.
This idea makes me want to start a thread on old home brewing myths. This seems to be one of them debunked. I've always thought that crash chilling is important for the beer quality. Makes wonder how much is really true or just ritual with some junk science behind it.

There's another thread here somewhere with warm lager fermentation. At ale temps and higher with no lagering whatsoever. It's really a steam beer process.

I had a friend that didn't use sanitizer for 10+ years of brewing without an infection. He used lots of hot water instead.

Not rehydrating dry yeast, at one time this was a no-no.

I think I could go on and on. I'd like to see how many knowitalls come out and tell you you'll make crappy beer. LOL
 

Blazinlow86

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This idea makes me want to start a thread on old home brewing myths. This seems to be one of them debunked. I've always thought that crash chilling is important for the beer quality. Makes wonder how much is really true or just ritual with some junk science behind it.

There's another thread here somewhere with warm lager fermentation. At ale temps and higher with no lagering whatsoever. It's really a steam beer process.

I had a friend that didn't use sanitizer for 10+ years of brewing without an infection. He used lots of hot water instead.

Not rehydrating dry yeast, at one time this was a no-no.

I think I could go on and on. I'd like to see how many knowitalls come out and tell you you'll make crappy beer. LOL
Possible some people's idea of crappy beer is different than yours?
 

Ninoid

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- I make minimum ten batches with No Chill and never have infection.
- I use gelatin and have very clean beer, same as with chilling.
- I use sanitizer only for clean bottles and caps.
For all other warm water is enough.
 

Schlenkerla

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Possible some people's idea of crappy beer is different than yours?
Quite possibly. However, I think I'm more judgemental about my own beers than other people are when tasting them. There's also a difference of low quality beer vs a style you don't like. I often think those two things are conflated when it's there's an obvious difference. Sours are a classic example of this. IPAs were once subject to this.

My point is this, I have been seeing a trend of some long standing brewing norms being broken. Think of NEIPA where it's all late whirlpool additions.

I'm still a traditionalist when it comes to my brewing process. I haven't embraced the trend quite yet.
 
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Schlenkerla

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In case anyone cares, no-chill makes a different tasting beer.
http://brulosophy.com/2015/11/09/cooling-the-wort-pt-1-no-chill-vs-quick-chill-exbeeriment-results/

I obviously don't know the rate but I do see plenty of HBT posts about contamination from no-chill brewers. Count me out.
I've been brewing for awhile, I'm with you. I wonder if you have a pilsner grist and not a real vigorous boil if you'll end up with a dimethylsulfide (DMS) flaw. I read somewhere that Pilsner malt is higher in DMS. Recommendations were vigorous boils for 90-120 minutes so it precipitates out of solution, and then followed by fast chilling so it doesn't go back into solution.

BTW - thanks for sharing the article.
 
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kh54s10

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All these ideas work, but will produce different things. A warm fermented lager will not be the same as a lager done traditionally. No chill will make a good beer, but I bet it tastes different than the same wort chilled. You can rely on warm water to "sanitize" but if you don't get infections, IMO, you are just lucky. DMS with pilsner malts has changed a lot with better malting/kilning processes. So it is far less a problem than it was in the past. As far as rehydrating dry yeast - that seems to be changing. Fermentis now recommends dry sprinkling on the surface. Other manufacturers still recommend rehydration.

I guess the important thing is to get down a process that you are comfortable with. You can experiment if you want to. There are many ways to skin this beast.
 

Cantina De Jefe

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What about getting that cold break out before you ferment? I use a plate chiller and getting down to 70° takes like 15-20 min tops.
 
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Birdgunner

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One other thought to the OP.

You don't use pilsner on with a no chill process do you?

No DMS or you boil really vigorous?
Sorry for the extremely absent response but a few updates since I have nearly a 100 gals through the Anvils... I have been on a Pilsner quest as of late which started as a request from a friend and continued as I enjoyed the challenge (no room for error with a Pils) all 25 gallons have been no chill and straight from boil into the Anvil...speaking of boil, whether it truly needs it or not I can't say but because there was pressure not to F-up I did do a 90 min boil the first go round, and 80ish the second two and no DMS or other off flavors detected in any of the bathes (validated by a cicerone and a couple other pinky fliers...I feel I have a pretty good palate for things but I always welcome, critical non biased opinions of my creations). With the exception of the first batch (it wasn't cold enough outside and kegerator was full) I did let the fermenters cool overnight, sprinkled on 34/70 and more or less let it ferment for a week in the 50's, then moved into our sealed crawlspace (68F) and let it ride for 2 more weeks before back outside for 24hrs when it was near freezing, added gelatin and then carbed 36hrs later (30psi w/ microstone for 12 hours then 48hrs at 12psi before I served it)...crystal clear and awesome. I didn't get the hops timing correct with the first go round, it was a decent beer but moving the hops addition to a 35-20-7 schedule produced a much better beer aligned with what I was envisioning. I apologize for the long answer but in summary, yes I can confidently say a Pils can be made via no chill.
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Birdgunner

Birdgunner

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I obviously don't know the rate but I do see plenty of HBT posts about contamination from no-chill brewers. Count me out.
I have used a plate in the past and in my opinion there is more of a risk of not properly sterilizing that vs near boiling wort going directly into a SS fermenter that I sprayed down with Starsan but that is just me. I feel I have my process dialed in, knock on wood and more liver damage than I probably care to know about but have never had an infected beer to date.

Regardless of the process one uses as we all know, just one detail overlooked can result in an infection so I feel it really just comes down to staying in a focused rhythm for the process that works for you.
 

Hwk-I-St8

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I really don't know how I'd manage an IPA with no chill. I suspect I'd lose quite a bit of hop flavor and end up with a more bitter beer than desired using that method.

I guess it doesn't really matter to me. I do a 30 minute whirlpool at 170 degrees for the NEIPAs anyway, so dropping my immersion chiller in at the end of the boil is about 3 minutes more work before and about 5 minutes more work after and actually probably speeds things up getting to WP temp quickly.

While I wouldn't complain about making my brew days easier, that's not an approach that interests me.
 

NZhomebrew

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Has anyone tried letting the wort naturally cool in the fermenter after the 170 whirlpool (or similar) addition for NEIPA or other hopped beer? Just wanting to see there would be any affects on bitterness and aroma with it being slightly cooled initially.

Edit: adding the wort to a sanitized fermenter, not relying on the 170 heat.
 
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Birdgunner

Birdgunner

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Has anyone tried letting the wort naturally cool in the fermenter after the 170 whirlpool (or similar) addition for NEIPA or other hopped beer? Just wanting to see there would be any affects on bitterness and aroma with it being slightly cooled initially.

Edit: adding the wort to a sanitized fermenter, not relying on the 170 heat.
I have experimented a little bit along these lines...
1 - After flameout waiting a few minutes and adding my hop load to the kettle, waiting 30 mins and then directly into the fermenter.
2 - Wort (after flame out) into the fermenter, wait until wort is around 170 (takes a couple hours) add hop addition via sanitized hop bag and seep for 30 then remove.

I routinely go with the first option simply because to me the difference in aroma isn't much different to warrant the additional risk and headache associated with the hop bag at 170. Will the higher heat at flameout degrade some of the volatile oils...I assume so and to counter this I just add 1/2-1 oz or so more hops than what a true whirlpool calls for and it seems to be on par and when using a Galaxy, Mosaic and Citra blend can't say it is any more bitter vs waiting until 170 . The "Juicy" seems to really come from the dry hop addition but maybe I am looking at this in a much to simplistic way.
 

RPh_Guy

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I have used a plate in the past and in my opinion there is more of a risk of not properly sterilizing that vs near boiling wort going directly into a SS fermenter that I sprayed down with Starsan
I also don't use a plate chiller ;)
I take contaminating risk very seriously.

There was just another thread here about a no-chill contamination a couple days ago.

On top of the other issues, no thanks.
 
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Birdgunner

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I also don't use a plate chiller ;)
I take contaminating risk very seriously.

There was just another thread here about a no-chill contamination a couple days ago.

On top of the other issues, no thanks.
I only mentioned the plate as point of reference that years ago I did chill my worts in the more traditional sense, not implying you use one or don't take sanitation serious but humor me, what are the other issues associated with no chill that you have concerns with? Promise, you could bash no chill all you want and I won't get offended but I am curious as to your perspective.
 

RPh_Guy

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The main issues with no-chill:
1. Increased contamination risk.
2. Increased bitterness from late hop additions and/or loss of aroma/flavor from mid-late hop additions. You have ways to work around this, but I'd prefer to keep things simple and predictable.
3. Contrary to low oxygen brewing.
 
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Birdgunner

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Fair enough. We could debate the first two but I will completely agree with you on your third point. It concerns me esp. with real hoppy brews. In thinking about this I was meaning to add a gas port to my Anvils so I guess if did actually get around to doing it I could add a blanket of CO2 to the fermenters prior to transferring and then direct transfer from the kettle into the fermenter through the airlock hole, plug and purge and should be a marked improvement as well as closed loop into the kegs. Thanks for your response, it got me thinking and a plan!
 

RPh_Guy

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That'll help, but it will pull in a bunch of air as it's cooling. :(

I was more referring to LODO brewing (preserving fresh malt flavor), which recommends that you chill rapidly and pitch healthy yeast to minimize risk of wort oxidation. ...So there is risk of both malt and hop oxidation (if you're trying to preserve the fresh malt flavors).
There are also issues with cold break affecting stability.
 
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Birdgunner

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Brother I applaud you if you adhere to LODO methods and it has improved your beers. Personally (hence the title of this thread) it is the opposite direction of my brewing philosophy and feel that an individual can make some killer brews in a more simplistic manner but that is just me. I definitely appreciate how you think though, we will have to discuss Stokes law and gelatin vs cold break someday in relation to stability but then again I don't have kegs last more than 3-4 weeks so that might just be an academic discussion for the heck of it! haha
 

ihavenonickname

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I’m thinking about doing a no chill neipa by adding the whirlpool hops at 170 and cooling overnight, then removing hops in the am.

Anyone tried this? I think I’ll get more bitterness out of it, but i like that idea (I’ll skip my usual buttering addition in the boil). The issue of oxidizing all the hop oils while it cools overnight Pre fermentation is a bit foggy to me... I mean I typically chill my neipas to 85F then let it cool to pitching temps overnight anyways ( my ground water isn’t cold enough). And I don’t have issues with oxidation. Plus I typically oxygenate my wort prior to pitching which also doesn’t seem to degrade my neipas.

Hmm it seems to me like no chill with lots of whirlpool hops should work fine.

Maybe I’ll really make it easy: No chill, no boil, DME! Just dissolve the DME in my water at 170F add a huge whirlpool addition, seal it up and WALK AWAY!! Then pitch in the am and dry hop the crap out of it per usual. Closed transfer to keg and that’s it!
 

Ninoid

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I always use factory processed malt and always brew no chill and have never had a problem with DMS or infection because of it. Hop for the bitterness I put FWH, and for the aroma dryhop. I believe cooling wort is safer, but I don't believe no chill beer is worse.

If you have no conditions or are lazy to cool a wort you will surely get a very good beer with no chill.
 
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Birdgunner

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I’m thinking about doing a no chill neipa by adding the whirlpool hops at 170 and cooling overnight, then removing hops in the am.


Anyone tried this? I think I’ll get more bitterness out of it, but i like that idea (I’ll skip my usual buttering addition in the boil). The issue of oxidizing all the hop oils while it cools overnight Pre fermentation is a bit foggy to me... I mean I typically chill my neipas to 85F then let it cool to pitching temps overnight anyways ( my ground water isn’t cold enough). And I don’t have issues with oxidation. Plus I typically oxygenate my wort prior to pitching which also doesn’t seem to degrade my neipas.


Hmm it seems to me like no chill with lots of whirlpool hops should work fine.


Maybe I’ll really make it easy: No chill, no boil, DME! Just dissolve the DME in my water at 170F add a huge whirlpool addition, seal it up and WALK AWAY!! Then pitch in the am and dry hop the crap out of it per usual. Closed transfer to keg and that’s it!

YES I HAVE! I am currently enjoying my third NEIPA batch with this method (No boil, no chill, no aeration) with outstanding results (zero DMS detected) but as you alluded to, if you whirlpool at the 170 ish range and leave it in the fermenter it will have a more pronounced IBU bite vs whirlpooling below 160 in your boil kettle and leaving for a set time before transferring to the fermenter…having done both and both resulting in very approachable brews it really just comes down to personal preference, for me at this stage in the summer and having gone through 25 gals of NEIPA (wow that sounds bad!lol) I am enjoying the more subdued version achieved with lower whirlpool temp for 30mins, transferring to the fermenter, hit it with a blanket of CO2, once it gets to below 100F adding the Hornidal, hit it again with CO2, 24 hours later adding in the dry hop load, another hit of CO2 and then 3 days later closed transfer into a CO2 filled keg with another dry hop loaded in a hop sock, carb at high pressure for 10hrs then purge, set to 12psi and start enjoying.

Trust me, you can make an amazing beer with no chill, no boil, no aeration, grain to glass in 5 days. Good luck!
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beersk

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I can't imagine shelf life on that beer is very long. You have to make sure to drink the keg inside of a month I'd think. Otherwise, it sounds too good to be true...
 
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