Tha' NBA Finals thread

[bob1852]

I'm not big on knocking basketball refs(NBA or NCAA) because I think it's one of the most difficult sports to ref. We are talking about well above average size men, moving at well above average speeds, and doing things that are pretty ridiculous. At full speed it's almost impossible to see many of the small infractions with certainty. It's mainly the inconsistency that gets me. When you see one player get a certain call, and another get nothing. Or when there are X number of free throws in the first 3 quarters, and X times 3 number of free throws in the 4th quarter(when the same rules apply throughout the game).

Oh I agree - but to use the arguement that refing is hard because "well above average size men, moving at well above average speeds, and doing things that are pretty ridiculous" is, well, ridiculous.

Because it is well above average size men (who are superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who happen to be superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who happen to be superstars) get all the calls, not the well above average size men (who aren't superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who aren't superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who aren't superstars).

LeBron, Wade, Dirk et al. are gonna get calls that the second tier aren't going to get, even if it's the same play....

 

[DregAddict]

Believe me, I'm on your side. I was just trying to temper my frustration with the refs a little bit.

I've sworn off the NBA on more than a few occasions because of what I considered was BS officiating. Against my best intentions, I have always been drawn back in. I don't know what their trick is. If you find out, let me know.

 

[bob1852]

Believe me, I'm on your side. I was just trying to temper my frustration with the refs a little bit.

I've sworn off the NBA on more than a few occasions because of what I considered was BS officiating. Against my best intentions, I have always been drawn back in. I don't know what their trick is. If you find out, let me know.

I blame Stern. That's the only thing I can think of, because I'm the same way!

I wasn't gonna watch this series at all

 

[DregAddict]

I blame Stern. That's the only thing I can think of, because I'm the same way!

I wasn't gonna watch this series at all

I know, they get me every time. I also think Stern is culpable. He's perfected the art of denial. As long as he doesn't acknowledge a problem, then there must not be a problem, right?

 

[bob1852]

I know, they get me every time. I also think Stern is culpable. He's perfected the art of denial. As long as he doesn't acknowledge a problem, then there must not be a problem, right?

To me, it all started in ~'99 when the Pacers got ****ed when Bird was coaching. And yet, here I am a decade + later....

 

[Palefire]

Because it is well above average size men (who are superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who happen to be superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who happen to be superstars) get all the calls, not the well above average size men (who aren't superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who aren't superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who aren't superstars).

LeBron, Wade, Dirk et al. are gonna get calls that the second tier aren't going to get, even if it's the same play....

What are you, some kind of communist? You want everyone treated equally now? :cross:


I don't like the new hand-check rules either (let 'em f'ing play!), but I'm honestly not convinced about the "stars get more calls" claim. There have of course been some glaring examples, but nothing statistically conclusive.

A few arguments against (from google. not trying to turn this into the debate forum!): 1 2 3

There's a good point made by David Aldridge, which is that older players and superstars get calls because refs know how they play, and know what they're likely to do when fouled and when not fouled.

 

[bob1852]

What are you, some kind of communist? You want everyone treated equally now? :cross:


I don't like the new hand-check rules either (let 'em f'ing play!), but I'm honestly not convinced about the "stars get more calls" claim. There have of course been some glaring examples, but nothing statistically conclusive.

A few arguments against (from google. not trying to turn this into the debate forum!): 1 2 3

There's a good point made by David Aldridge, which is that older players and superstars get calls because refs know how they play, and know what they're likely to do when fouled and when not fouled.

In reality the good players have always gotten the calls; and I'm actually fine with that. BUT BUT BUT BUT - at least let the call be a somewhat legit foul. It's not like tonight was any different, but it just confirmed how the league is.

 

[DregAddict]

To me, it all started in ~'99 when the Pacers got ****ed when Bird was coaching. And yet, here I am a decade + later....

See I'm a Lakers fan, so I'll have to respectfully disagree. That series was about Shaq in his prime vs Rik Smits. Not much of a contest. I think the pacers were just outmatched. But honestly it probably started earlier. As soon as the league became a superstar/big market oriented league, then things got bad.

And for what it's worth, despite being a Laker fan, I can acknowledge when Kobe gets BS calls, or Phil campaigns for calls, etc. And I don't like that either. I'm all for winning, but I want it to be legit, with no room for argument.

 

[bob1852]

See I'm a Lakers fan, so I'll have to respectfully disagree. That series was about Shaq in his prime vs Rik Smits. Not much of a contest. I think the pacers were just outmatched. But honestly it probably started earlier. As soon as the league became a superstar/big market oriented league, then things got bad.

And for what it's worth, despite being a Laker fan, I can acknowledge when Kobe gets BS calls, or Phil campaigns for calls, etc. And I don't like that either. I'm all for winning, but I want it to be legit, with no room for argument.

I wasn't referring to the finals - 'twas referring to the east finals.....

I might of had my year wrong. But the Pacers got ****ed by the refs in one of those years.

 

[DregAddict]

In reality the good players have always gotten the calls; and I'm actually fine with that. BUT BUT BUT BUT - at least let the call be a somewhat legit foul. It's not like tonight was any different, but it just confirmed how the league is.

Yeah, of course guys that have some sort of familiarity with the refs have a better chance of getting calls. But, where do the complete phantom calls come from? Like I said earlier, refing b-ball is not easy, but some level of consistency should be preferred over what we have right now. Hell, you even see the "superstars" getting whacked(obviously) on occasion without a foul call because the refs seem to want to "let things go" for that part of the game.

 

[Palefire]

The one analysis I've seen that wasn't about kissing Miami's ass:

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/heats-big-shots-disguise-offensive-struggles/

 

[Ferminator]

Damn !

 

[Ferminator]

Dirk , catch an shoot!

 

[Ferminator]

Damn you wade , your a beast stop it take a break!

 

[Ferminator]

This thread Sucks!!!!! You don't like the NBA !!! where th phuck ya at?

 

[Ferminator]

Great , game!

 

[wildwest450]

What a cast of idiots on ESPN. Recapping the game and foaming at the mouth over LeBaby and Wade, like the Mavs didn't even show. Showed EVERY Miami dunk in the game, and oh btw, the Mavs won. Tools.


_

 

[Johnvodka]

As a die hard spurs fan I'd love to see the mavs blow it to Miami again. At the 7 minute mark of tonights game I was sure that this would be the result. Boy was I wrong. After a momentum shift like that and coming back to Texas , I wouldn't be surprised if Dallas got the next three in a row. Cubans a ****** so is lebron!

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Only seen the first half of both games but one thing I noticed was that Dallas was playing/shooting like crap...but were still tied or within a couple of points. I kept thinking if Dallas starts hitting their shots Miami might be in trouble.

Still a lotta basketball left tho.

 

[smakudwn]

Holly crap that was a great comeback!

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Holly crap that was a great comeback!

Or a huge collapse. I didn't see it, which one would be more accurate; comeback or collapse?

Guys on Mike&Mike said Miami was celebrating quite a bit after they went up 15 with 7:xx left to go, then went for some ill-advised 'dagger threes' that missed and allowed Dallas to get into transition. Then Spoelstra was getting criticized; when Dirk gets the ball at the very end Miami had a foul to give but didn't foul...and he put Bosh on Dirk.

 

[smakudwn]

Probably bit of both. Mavs didn't give up but Miami definitely didn't close out the game. The way Miami was playing I gave up on the Mavs, but gotta hand it to them, they hung around and looked for an opening. I was flipping back and forth between the Cards game (terrible) so I didn't see every minute.

 

[Palefire]

I call Dallas in 6. Would love to see my boy J. Kidd finally get one.

hmmm.... just so you know, I called it last year too...


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/lakers-celtics-trash-talking-thread-180912/#post2094228

 

[bob1852]

hmmm.... just so you know, I called it last year too...


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/lakers-celtics-trash-talking-thread-180912/#post2094228

Nice calls Pale.

I'm glad about this year - last year, not so much.

 

[jbsg02]

SO AWESOME. After following this team for so long and seeing us get so close many times, it's great to see this team pull it out, and I wouldn't have rather beat any other team

 

[Brandonovich]

Big props should be given to Rick Carlisle as well, he coached circles around Eric Spoelstra. Great series, really sound fundamental basketball from a very classy team.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Wonder if anybody would have been suspended for game 7 had game 7 been necessary.

Agree about Carlisle.

 

[wildwest450]

Big props should be given to insert any high school coach here, as well, he coached circles around Eric Spoelstra. Great series, really sound fundamental basketball from a very classy team.