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Palefire

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I know there aren't too many hoops fans on HBT, but for those of you who are ...

Who you got, mofo?


I call Dallas in 6. Would love to see my boy J. Kidd finally get one.



Oh, and I also call Miami in 6 for next year's finals. :cross:
 

BendBrewer

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We had a Final's Bracket here in the office. Betting with my money and not my heart I took the Heat. I have already won the pool.

Now I can cheer for Dallas and keep the coin.
 
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I hope LeBron never wins a title. Never have a seen a "super star" need to leave a team to win a title.

A true "super star" would've made his team win the title.

Go Dirk!
 

smakudwn

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I'm on the fence, I hate Mark Cuban. But I like Dirk. I'll still root for the Mavs because my hatred for the Big 2 and Medium size 1 far exceeds my hate for Cuban.
 

the_bird

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Don't like Kidd, but I can't stand BronBron and Bosh even more.

Hate watching the Heat, it's boring, iso-driven basketball. Two guys just taking turns going one-on-one.

Go Dirk!
 
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I'm on the fence, I hate Mark Cuban. But I like Dirk. I'll still root for the Mavs because my hatred for the Big 2 and Medium size 1 far exceeds my hate for Cuban.
No ****. I've never understood how Bosh fit into the "big" category. I guess they just needed to stretch it out to have a Big Three since the C's had Bird, McHale, & Parish; and now Garnett, Pierce, & Allen.
 
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Palefire

Palefire

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I actually think BronBron'll be vindicated in a few years. He left Cleveland in the most obnoxious, egomaniacal way possible, and will always be a dick for that. On the other hand, he had the opportunity to try to build what could end up being one of the greatest dynasties ever. His options were basically to gut it out, hoping that management would finally put the right pieces around him, or leave and put together an absolute juggernaut.

Can't really fault that decision, especially if it brings him a bunch of rings.

Sh*t, the Heat still haven't quite figured out who they are as a team, and they're playing in the finals, with a good chance of winning ... think he'd be there if he were still in Cleveland?
 

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I love the NBA finals, it lets me know the Stanley Cup finals are about to start.


_
 

SpanishCastleAle

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I don't really have any hate for LeBron or Cuban or anybody else involved. Didn't like the presentation of 'The Decision' but don't blame him for the actual decision itself. I think I'd rather live in Miami with a better chance to win titles than Cleveland with a lesser chance.

But I'd like to see Dirk get a ring. Dude just seems really cool/classy.

Want: Dallas in 7
Think: Miami in 6

Kind of wish they'd change the 2-3-2 format.
Fully expecting to not get to watch any of the part that matters (4th quarter) since they always seem to start at 9:00 PM on Tues/Thurs/Sunday.:(
 

Brandonovich

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People who hate Lebron because of the whole situation in Cleveland are a bunch of D'bags. That city benefited so much from him being there, and they would naot have shown him an ounce of loyalty if he suddenly wasn't very good. They would have cast him aside for the next best thing. He was just a pile of money as far as the organization and the city was concerned, but they expect him to pu everybody else before himself. I am glad he left those bunch of whiners and pursued a better situation.

Heat in 7
 

smakudwn

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I never questioned that moving to south beach would be better for his career. It was still a d**k move how he did it.
 

kpr121

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NBA wants the Mavs to win. Its a feel good story of how you cant always buy a championship.

Then in two more weeks they will already be predicting the Heat will win in 2012, and the circus will start all over. Anticipation will build and everyone will be excited to see how much better they get next year (with a new coach maybe).

If Heat win now, everyone will say they were supposed to win, and noone will be excited to watch next year.

I personnally think the Heat will win in 5. I'm okay with that, I like Wade.
 
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NBA wants the Mavs to win. Its a feel good story of how you cant always buy a championship.

Then in two more weeks they will already be predicting the Heat will win in 2012, and the circus will start all over. Anticipation will build and everyone will be excited to see how much better they get next year (with a new coach maybe).

If Heat win now, everyone will say they were supposed to win, and noone will be excited to watch next year.
Phil Jackson to coach the Heat next year if they don't win this year...
 

SpanishCastleAle

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So you think Pat Riley, who is the same age as Jackson, will hire PJ to coach the Heat? Seems to me he'd just coach them himself.
 
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Palefire

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Damn, might have to reconsider my prediction. The next game is key. If Miami kicks Dallas' ass like they did tonight, it's over.
 
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Damn, might have to reconsider my prediction. The next game is key. If Miami kicks Dallas' ass like they did tonight, it's over.
If the refs call as bad of a game as they did tonight (both sides), it's over for my viewing.

I really fecking hate "anticipated" fouls when they don't happen. This game, especially in the 4th, was full of them. Let 'em play. Not surprising from Steve Javie and Billy Kennedy, though. Oh, how do I miss the days of Earl Strom and Darell Garretson.
 

DregAddict

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If the refs call as bad of a game as they did tonight (both sides), it's over for my viewing.

I really fecking hate "anticipated" fouls when they don't happen. This game, especially in the 4th, was full of them. Let 'em play. Not surprising from Steve Javie and Billy Kennedy, though. Oh, how do I miss the days of Earl Strom and Darell Garretson.
I don't think you're going to get an old school series out of these two teams. At least in terms of physical play. The days of Laimbeer vs Rambis are long gone, and it's unfortunate. I still think you'll see some great play from this series. That Wade to James alley-oop in the last couple minutes was nasty. Not something you would have seen 2 decades ago.

I really like the added athleticism from today's NBA. I don't like the increased traveling and refs that call every little touch(or no touch at all).
 
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I don't think you're going to get an old school series out of these two teams. At least in terms of physical play. The days of Laimbeer vs Rambis are long gone, and it's unfortunate. I still think you'll see some great play from this series. That Wade to James alley-oop in the last couple minutes was nasty. Not something you would have seen 2 decades ago.

I really like the added athleticism from today's NBA. I don't like the increased traveling and refs that call every little touch(or no touch at all).
That's my point. This style of basketball is ugly when there are fouls called on every possession and it's not physical ball being played....

Just because some guy drives to the hoop and a couple defenders approach doesn't mean the whistle should automatically be blown every time.

Tonight's game was a non-physical 94-82 game. That's ugly. That's late 90s style NBA. Ugly.

Get us back to the 80s games where scores were high, it was physical at times, and fouls were fouls when they were fouls; not just some anticipated "and 1" for the sake of the crowd getting into it.

Case in point 1984 Game 4. McHale beating the **** out of Rambis, etc. - yet the score was 129-125.
 

DregAddict

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Yeah 94-82 is hard to watch. I just don't see the game going back to how it was in the past. These days teams try to out-duel each other by playing halfcourt offense where they don't turn the ball over very much. It's a "slow it down" kind of league. That you might be able to blame on Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, and the like. But it's successful. Not entertaining, but successful.
 
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Yeah 94-82 is hard to watch. I just don't see the game going back to how it was in the past. These days teams try to out-duel each other by playing halfcourt offense where they don't turn the ball over very much. It's a "slow it down" kind of league. That you might be able to blame on Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, and the like. But it's successful. Not entertaining, but successful.
Well said.
 

DregAddict

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And at that point it's almost up to the refs to bring out some sort of drama in the game.

Sucks, I know, but it is what it is.
 
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And at that point it's almost up to the refs to bring out some sort of drama in the game.

Sucks, I know, but it is what it is.
I drank a lot of beers with Billy Kennedy at a bar in Phoenix in the late 1990s. He was shocked about how much I knew about the refs in the NBA (this was pre-Donaghy bull****) and Billy's main comment was that if you know who is refing an NBA game they're doing a bad job.....
 

DregAddict

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I'm not big on knocking basketball refs(NBA or NCAA) because I think it's one of the most difficult sports to ref. We are talking about well above average size men, moving at well above average speeds, and doing things that are pretty ridiculous. At full speed it's almost impossible to see many of the small infractions with certainty. It's mainly the inconsistency that gets me. When you see one player get a certain call, and another get nothing. Or when there are X number of free throws in the first 3 quarters, and X times 3 number of free throws in the 4th quarter(when the same rules apply throughout the game).
 
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I'm not big on knocking basketball refs(NBA or NCAA) because I think it's one of the most difficult sports to ref. We are talking about well above average size men, moving at well above average speeds, and doing things that are pretty ridiculous. At full speed it's almost impossible to see many of the small infractions with certainty. It's mainly the inconsistency that gets me. When you see one player get a certain call, and another get nothing. Or when there are X number of free throws in the first 3 quarters, and X times 3 number of free throws in the 4th quarter(when the same rules apply throughout the game).
Oh I agree - but to use the arguement that refing is hard because "well above average size men, moving at well above average speeds, and doing things that are pretty ridiculous" is, well, ridiculous.

Because it is well above average size men (who are superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who happen to be superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who happen to be superstars) get all the calls, not the well above average size men (who aren't superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who aren't superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who aren't superstars).

LeBron, Wade, Dirk et al. are gonna get calls that the second tier aren't going to get, even if it's the same play....
 

DregAddict

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Believe me, I'm on your side. I was just trying to temper my frustration with the refs a little bit.

I've sworn off the NBA on more than a few occasions because of what I considered was BS officiating. Against my best intentions, I have always been drawn back in. I don't know what their trick is. If you find out, let me know.
 
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Believe me, I'm on your side. I was just trying to temper my frustration with the refs a little bit.

I've sworn off the NBA on more than a few occasions because of what I considered was BS officiating. Against my best intentions, I have always been drawn back in. I don't know what their trick is. If you find out, let me know.
I blame Stern. That's the only thing I can think of, because I'm the same way! :D

I wasn't gonna watch this series at all :drunk:
 

DregAddict

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I blame Stern. That's the only thing I can think of, because I'm the same way! :D

I wasn't gonna watch this series at all :drunk:
I know, they get me every time. I also think Stern is culpable. He's perfected the art of denial. As long as he doesn't acknowledge a problem, then there must not be a problem, right?
 
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I know, they get me every time. I also think Stern is culpable. He's perfected the art of denial. As long as he doesn't acknowledge a problem, then there must not be a problem, right?
To me, it all started in ~'99 when the Pacers got ****ed when Bird was coaching. And yet, here I am a decade + later.... :eek:
 
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Palefire

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Because it is well above average size men (who are superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who happen to be superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who happen to be superstars) get all the calls, not the well above average size men (who aren't superstars), moving at well above average speeds (who aren't superstars), and doing things that are pretty ridiculous (who aren't superstars).

LeBron, Wade, Dirk et al. are gonna get calls that the second tier aren't going to get, even if it's the same play....
What are you, some kind of communist? You want everyone treated equally now? :cross:


I don't like the new hand-check rules either (let 'em f'ing play!), but I'm honestly not convinced about the "stars get more calls" claim. There have of course been some glaring examples, but nothing statistically conclusive.

A few arguments against (from google. not trying to turn this into the debate forum!): 1 2 3

There's a good point made by David Aldridge, which is that older players and superstars get calls because refs know how they play, and know what they're likely to do when fouled and when not fouled.
 
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What are you, some kind of communist? You want everyone treated equally now? :cross:


I don't like the new hand-check rules either (let 'em f'ing play!), but I'm honestly not convinced about the "stars get more calls" claim. There have of course been some glaring examples, but nothing statistically conclusive.

A few arguments against (from google. not trying to turn this into the debate forum!): 1 2 3

There's a good point made by David Aldridge, which is that older players and superstars get calls because refs know how they play, and know what they're likely to do when fouled and when not fouled.
In reality the good players have always gotten the calls; and I'm actually fine with that. BUT BUT BUT BUT - at least let the call be a somewhat legit foul. It's not like tonight was any different, but it just confirmed how the league is.
 

DregAddict

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To me, it all started in ~'99 when the Pacers got ****ed when Bird was coaching. And yet, here I am a decade + later.... :eek:
See I'm a Lakers fan, so I'll have to respectfully disagree. That series was about Shaq in his prime vs Rik Smits. Not much of a contest. I think the pacers were just outmatched. But honestly it probably started earlier. As soon as the league became a superstar/big market oriented league, then things got bad.

And for what it's worth, despite being a Laker fan, I can acknowledge when Kobe gets BS calls, or Phil campaigns for calls, etc. And I don't like that either. I'm all for winning, but I want it to be legit, with no room for argument.
 
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See I'm a Lakers fan, so I'll have to respectfully disagree. That series was about Shaq in his prime vs Rik Smits. Not much of a contest. I think the pacers were just outmatched. But honestly it probably started earlier. As soon as the league became a superstar/big market oriented league, then things got bad.

And for what it's worth, despite being a Laker fan, I can acknowledge when Kobe gets BS calls, or Phil campaigns for calls, etc. And I don't like that either. I'm all for winning, but I want it to be legit, with no room for argument.
I wasn't referring to the finals - 'twas referring to the east finals.....

I might of had my year wrong. But the Pacers got ****ed by the refs in one of those years.
 

DregAddict

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In reality the good players have always gotten the calls; and I'm actually fine with that. BUT BUT BUT BUT - at least let the call be a somewhat legit foul. It's not like tonight was any different, but it just confirmed how the league is.
Yeah, of course guys that have some sort of familiarity with the refs have a better chance of getting calls. But, where do the complete phantom calls come from? Like I said earlier, refing b-ball is not easy, but some level of consistency should be preferred over what we have right now. Hell, you even see the "superstars" getting whacked(obviously) on occasion without a foul call because the refs seem to want to "let things go" for that part of the game.
 
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