Terrible Efficiency.

[DavidSwede]

I know, I know.... there is a lot of advice available regarding efficiency including a great post pinned in this section. However, i'm struggling here. I'm following all advice reasonable to my small homebrew set-up and still coming out with 55-60% (brewhouse) efficiency, over a range of recipes. So heres a quick run-down of my method, if anyone sees any gaping holes in it please say;

• conditioning grain an hour before crushing with 2-2.5% water by weight.
• crushing fine with close to zero grain left whole.
• hitting mash-in temps with calibrated (100degC in lightly boiling water) thermometer
• Round mashtun set at a slight angle to minimise dead space.
• vigorous stir at mash-in, then at 20 mins and 40 mins (usually a drop of 2degC after 1 hour due to stirring)
  
• 6 litre vorlauf after 60 mins, heating the runnings to 90+degC and adding back to begin mash-out.
• Fly-sparging at appropriate temp to bring grain bed to 77+degC and stop conversion.
• Using colander attactched to hose coming from temp-controlled kettle for fly sparging, to avoid disturbing grain bed and avoid channeling, always keeping water level an inch or two above grain.
• collecting runnings at a rate of 0.3l/min i.e. 20l/hour
• Boil.
• cheap mans whirlpool (stir) and allow 5 mins to settle
• Siphoning through counterflow chiller into carboy, so no dead space in kettle, only absorption by trub/hops.
• Further points - Callibrated hydrometer. Untreated tap water; local water stats fit with guideline levels for brewing.

Thanks for any help and just ask if theres any important info i've missed. I understand at homebrew level efficiency isnt massively important but I see it as a bit of a challenge to at least get up to the more normal 75% range.

/David

 

[soccerdad]

IMO ..
1 .. 'almost' all grains cracked is not enough. Crack every single one.
2 .. 60 minutes is not a magic number .. mash longer .. try 70, try 80, try 90
3 .. 60 minutes is not a magic number .. boil longer to further concentrate the wort
4 .. I know nothing about fly or batch sparging (I do full volume BIAB), but I wo't be surprised if someone suggest batch sparging over fly sparging

best wishes .. keep us posted

 

[beermanpete]

You need to separate the various steps to diagnose the problem. The S.G. of the wort in the mash before sparging should be checked to determine conversion efficiency. Braukaiser has a chart here that lists the S.G. of the first runnings: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/images/3/3c/First_wort_gravity.gif. If your conversion efficiency is low check pH, grain crush, mash temp and time. To get good sparging you need to make sure there is no channeling and that you use enough liquor. Sparge until the last running are about 1.010 S.G. if you have room in your boil kettle. Using a thicker mash will allow room for more sparing but lowers efficiency a bit. Watch for pH rise at the end of sparging and stop if the pH approaches 6.0.

 

[DavidSwede]

1 .. 'almost' all grains cracked is not enough. Crack every single one.
2 .. 60 minutes is not a magic number .. mash longer .. try 70, try 80, try 90
3 .. 60 minutes is not a magic number .. boil longer to further concentrate the wort
4 .. I know nothing about fly or batch sparging (I do full volume BIAB), but I wo't be surprised if someone suggest batch sparging over fly sparging

Thanks for the fast response!

tbh I cant see any un-crushed grain.... just thought it was a bit arrogant to say I was getting every last one.

I will definitely go for a longer mash next time. Although its a balancing act as my tun isnt temp controlled and therefore stirring does cost a degree or two over time.

If your conversion efficiency is low check pH, grain crush, mash temp and time. To get good sparging you need to make sure there is no channeling and that you use enough liquor. Sparge until the last running are about 1.010 S.G.

My last runnings are usually around 1.014 - 1.018 (after accounting for temp) when I hit my target volume for the kettle. Wouldnt continuing to add less concentrated wort actually lower my OG post-boil? Assuming no other adjustments.

Thanks again for all your help!

/David

 

[beermanpete]

Thanks for the fast response!

tbh I cant see any un-crushed grain.... just thought it was a bit arrogant to say I was getting every last one.

I will definitely go for a longer mash next time. Although its a balancing act as my tun isnt temp controlled and therefore stirring does cost a degree or two over time.



My last runnings are usually around 1.014 - 1.018 (after accounting for temp) when I hit my target volume for the kettle. Wouldnt continuing to add less concentrated wort actually lower my OG post-boil? Assuming no other adjustments.

Thanks again for all your help!

/David

A degree or two is not a big deal. If conversion is not complete let it mash longer. A finer grind will speed it up.

Yes, you will have more water but you will get more extract as well. Boil longer to condense it down to your target volume. Some styles typically have a long boil time so it is somewhat style dependant.

 

[dmtaylor]

You say you calibrate your thermometer at 100 C. But do you know your altitude and the boiling point at your particular altitude? This could make a significant difference if you are at high elevation. If boiling point at your elevation is actually 98 C and you assume it is 100 C, then your mash could be 2 C colder than you thought it was too, which could slow down the enzymatic action.

Quit stirring your mash. You’re not gaining much, mostly just losing even more temperature.

Skip the mashout step. If conversion isn’t complete as suggested above, then mashout is hurting you more than it’s helping. And anyway, it’s just not necessary.

Try batch sparging. Fly sparging is more pain than it’s worth.

Overall, I bet you didn’t mill the grains finely enough. Crush the grains till you’re really scared of a stuck mash. Then if you get a stuck mash, back off on the mill gap by 0.001-0.002 inch.

 

[IslandLizard]

Excellent suggestions were already given.
A few things come to mind.

You need to separately assess your brewhouse and mash efficiencies. One could have good mash efficiency, but loose 20% of the wort/beer later on in the process, like in kettle trub, fermentor and packaging losses, etc.

Since you mentioned using a "small" setup, what is your batch size?

Low mash efficiency is usually due to a bad, too coarse of a crush. If there are any whole kernels in your milled grist, you're milling to coarsely. A 0.034" gap on a typical 2-roller mill should give you a decent mash efficiency. Perhaps you can post a picture of your crush, showing lifting up a handful? Any small kernel grain like wheat, rye etc. benefits from a tighter gap.

Definitely do a batch sparge and see if your mash efficiency improves. Mash in at 1.5 qts/lb, sparge 2x with equal volume. Measure the gravity and volume of each of the runnings. You could do small test mashes to hone in on efficiency.

 

[DavidSwede]

Thanks again everyone a lot of great (and fast) advice!

Im brewing again on Friday... i'll take a couple of pics and try adjusting a few things in response to advice here then get back to you.

/David

ps. batch sizes range from 3-5 gallons.

 

[Smellyglove]

What's your mash efficiency? For all we know you might be having 99.9% mash efficiency but you leave a lot behind.

Post a pic of your crush.

 

[Brak23]

As someone who was in your boat (though mine was 62% Mash Efficiency) I feel you. Im going to share a few things I personally did that ended up helping:

1. Crushed my grains like crazy, I did the "credit card width" and its pretty crushed. But people say I can go more if I want.
2. I bought a round cooler and a brew-in-a-bag mesh bag to do my mash in -- never had a stuck sparge since
3. I realized my water is like 7.9 pH leaving my mash pH a bit high, so adjusted it with Lactic Acid

#1 helped a ton, but #2 and #3 I did at the same time, so I cant say which was more impactful here but my last batch was like about 82% mash efficiency. Now my problem is making sure I keep a stable efficiency and now swing all over the place.

Do you know what your mash pH is?

 

[Smellyglove]

pH of the water it self doesn't tell you much. You need to know the alkalinity. Besides pH which is somewhat off wouldn't account for a very poor mash efficiency, if that's what the issue is about.

 

[IslandLizard]

My last runnings are usually around 1.014 - 1.018 ... when I hit my target volume for the kettle.

1.014 is about the max gravity for the end of a fly sparge, but 1.018 is high unless you're brewing a high gravity beer (>1.080).
Since you brew relatively small batches you really should do batch sparging, after the initial 5' drain (incl. vorlauf), it literally takes 10 minutes per sparge (including vorlauf and draining it).

 

[RM-MN]

IMO ..
1 .. 'almost' all grains cracked is not enough. Crack every single one.
2 .. 60 minutes is not a magic number .. mash longer .. try 70, try 80, try 90
3 .. 60 minutes is not a magic number .. boil longer to further concentrate the wort
4 .. I know nothing about fly or batch sparging (I do full volume BIAB), but I wo't be surprised if someone suggest batch sparging over fly sparging

best wishes .. keep us posted

I think that is my cue. Well done fly sparging will exceed the sugar extraction of batch sparging....but not by much. Poorly done fly sparging is a disaster. Give batch sparging a try, it's simple and effective.

If you haven't had difficulty with draining the mash tun, crush the grain more. Efficiency is more influenced by the crush of the grain than any other factor (normally, really big amounts of wort left in the kettle can throw this off).

 

[jay29]

Last four of my beers have been around 89% efficiency. I don't crack my grains I crush them. I batch sparge and mix it up pretty good and let it rest for 15 minutes before I get the rest of the wort.

 

[brewbama]

Crushing is a balance: too fine could lead to lauter problems as well. If the wort cannot get between the grains to wash away the sugar because the grain bed is too tight will cause the wort to take the path of least resistance around the bed (along the sides) missing a significant amount of sugar.

 

[doug293cz]

Crushing is a balance: too fine could lead to lauter problems as well. If the wort cannot get between the grains to wash away the sugar because the grain bed is too tight will cause the wort to take the path of least resistance around the bed (along the sides) missing a significant amount of sugar.

That's a good argument in favor of batch sparging. In batch sparging you mix the sparge water aggressively with the grain, until there is concentration homogeneity of all of the wort in the MLT. If you achieve homogeneity (or close to it) of the wort, then channeling is a non issue. This is why conducting a good batch sparge is much easier than conducting a good fly sparge.

Brew on

 

[DavidSwede]

Ok so im going to go for a longer mash (75 mins), skip the stirring during the mash and go for a batch sparge.... one question regarding that before I brew tomorrow.... Im brewing a DIPA and was intending to use 3litres/kg in the mash. 5kg grain gives me 15 litres strike water. But im only aiming for 16 litres into the kettle.... even after absorbtion/loss 2 decent sparges will result in way too much into the kettle. Q. Which is the best option... two low volume sparges, one larger sparge, or collecting more volume and doing a longer boil?

/David

 

[Morrey]

What's your mash efficiency? For all we know you might be having 99.9% mash efficiency but you leave a lot behind.

Post a pic of your crush.

Mash efficiency is your report card, then BH efficiency supports by including how much got left in hoses, kettle trub, waste, spillage..etc.

Make sure you have "calibrated/checked" the devices you are using to measure volumes. The sight glass on my kettle was off, and another culprit can be the markings on FV's. Check your volumes first before anything else. Sometimes the most obvious is the easiest to overlook.

 

[beermanpete]

Ok so im going to go for a longer mash (75 mins), skip the stirring during the mash and go for a batch sparge.... one question regarding that before I brew tomorrow.... Im brewing a DIPA and was intending to use 3litres/kg in the mash. 5kg grain gives me 15 litres strike water. But im only aiming for 16 litres into the kettle.... even after absorbtion/loss 2 decent sparges will result in way too much into the kettle. Q. Which is the best option... two low volume sparges, one larger sparge, or collecting more volume and doing a longer boil?

/David

That depends on your target OG. With high gravity beer efficiency falls, partly due to the sparge volume required to achieve high efficiency. You might consider making the high gravity beer from the first running and then make a small beer from the second running (parti-gyle) to use the rest of the extract.

 

[RM-MN]

Ok so im going to go for a longer mash (75 mins), skip the stirring during the mash and go for a batch sparge.... one question regarding that before I brew tomorrow.... Im brewing a DIPA and was intending to use 3litres/kg in the mash. 5kg grain gives me 15 litres strike water. But im only aiming for 16 litres into the kettle.... even after absorbtion/loss 2 decent sparges will result in way too much into the kettle. Q. Which is the best option... two low volume sparges, one larger sparge, or collecting more volume and doing a longer boil?

/David

A double batch sparge will get you more sugars collected than a single larger sparge. Plan for more volume and longer boil.

 

[dmtaylor]

Ok so im going to go for a longer mash (75 mins), skip the stirring during the mash and go for a batch sparge.... one question regarding that before I brew tomorrow.... Im brewing a DIPA and was intending to use 3litres/kg in the mash. 5kg grain gives me 15 litres strike water. But im only aiming for 16 litres into the kettle.... even after absorbtion/loss 2 decent sparges will result in way too much into the kettle. Q. Which is the best option... two low volume sparges, one larger sparge, or collecting more volume and doing a longer boil?

Why only 16 litres into the kettle? What is your total batch size? Not 19 litres but a smaller batch??

 

[DavidSwede]

Why only 16 litres into the kettle? What is your total batch size? Not 19 litres but a smaller batch??

Yeah i've recently started brewing smaller batches but more often, trying to improve my own recipes rather than use other peoples. So 16l into kettle, 90 min boil gives close to 11l into carboy, 1l loss, 20 500ml bottles.

 

[dmtaylor]

Okay..... after doing a metric buttload of mathematics, I now fully understand what is going on, and can make some recommendations:

90-minute boil time is long enough. Let's stick with that. You could sparge even more and plan to boil for an even longer time if you care a lot about efficiency. But for now let's just stay at 90 minutes. Okay. So for that...

3 L/kg mash ratio is too thin if you want optimal efficiency. Try just 2 L/kg. It will be very thick, but that's okay, because it will allow you to sparge a lot more to get more sugars out of your grains. So, then, you'll want to strike with just 10 L at about 78 C water which will bring your mash to about 66 C. Let it rest there for 75 minutes or whatever, then vorlauf, runoff, then add...

First sparge with 5.5 L water at full boil 100 C. This will bring up the temperature slightly but not as much as you think. Mix well then immediately vorlauf and runoff (that's how batch sparging should work nowadays in 2018). Then....

Second sparge with another 5.5 L water at just 76 C. This will bring your temperature close to the desired mashout temp, and will of course extract even more sugars. Mix well then immediately vorlauf and runoff.

Then bring to the boil and continue as normal.

That's for the double batch sparge. For single sparge, it's much the same except you would first strike with 2.6 L/kg, which is 12.9 L at 76 C, then single sparge with 8 L at 93 C.

That should bring your efficiency way way way up into the 70s probably.

Cheers and good luck.

 

[DavidSwede]

3 L/kg mash ratio is too thin if you want optimal efficiency. Try just 2 L/kg. It will be very thick, but that's okay, because it will allow you to sparge a lot more to get more sugars out of your grains. So, then, you'll want to strike with just 10 L at about 78 C water which will bring your mash to about 66 C.

Cheers and good luck.

Thanks for the suggestions. I had already decided to go down to 2.5l/kg but maybe i'll go lower. Just to say though losing 12degC when mashing in seems crazy. 6degC, maybe 7 if extra stirring is required.

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks for the suggestions. I had already decided to go down to 2.5l/kg but maybe i'll go lower. Just to say though losing 12degC when mashing in seems crazy. 6degC, maybe 7 if extra stirring is required.

The temperature losses are based on science and my own experience. Should be pretty close to accurate I think. Keep in mind you are blending a smaller amount of hot water with 5 kg grains that I've assumed are at room temperature. If you don't want to lose so much temperature or heat your water as hot, you could play around with preheating your mash tun.... which probably still involves putting hot water in it. I think my estimates will be pretty close.

 

[kevin58]

By choosing a high gravity brew you are only compounding your low efficiency issue. As stated earlier, efficiency normally drops with higher OG's to begin with. Maybe dial in your process and solve your existing problem on an average strength beer first.

 

[dmtaylor]

By choosing a high gravity brew you are only compounding your low efficiency issue. As stated earlier, efficiency normally drops with higher OG's to begin with. Maybe dial in your process and solve your existing problem on an average strength beer first.

Excellent points, I do agree.

That said.... if it's got to be this recipe, then the double batch sparge should serve you as well as can be, given a good crush, very thick mash, and getting every drop out of each portion of the runnings into the kettle in a split as close to 1-1-1 (33% each) as possible, which is how I figured it above.

 

[DavidSwede]

By choosing a high gravity brew you are only compounding your low efficiency issue. As stated earlier, efficiency normally drops with higher OG's to begin with. Maybe dial in your process and solve your existing problem on an average strength beer first.

Absolutely. Im rotating 5 recipes right now and its just coincidence that I posted this before the only high gravity brew im currently doing.

 

[Rodent]

Excellent points, I do agree.

That said.... if it's got to be this recipe, then the double batch sparge should serve you as well as can be, given a good crush, very thick mash, and getting every drop out of each portion of the runnings into the kettle in a split as close to 1-1-1 (33% each) as possible, which is how I figured it above.

this is what I had to do to get my efficiency up into the upper 70s when brewing a double IPA. the thickness can be intimidating at first, but all is good once you get a feel for it.

I also use a HERMS and circulate the entire mashing once I'm doughed in. nothing to think about for now, but if you have an insulated tun and find you have need for multiple temp steps it could be something to research about for the future

 

[Desert_Sky]

crush it till youre scared

 

[DavidSwede]

Follow-up;

I did indeed, crush it until I was scared;

Im still hand-cranking and it was so fine it was an effort to turn the handle. this is how it went down...
5.1kg fermentables, .3kg rice hulls. 2.2 l/kg thickness, strike water 77degC, mash-in (after hardcore stir) 69degC.

All gravity readings temp adjusted; 1st runnings (6 l), 1.083. 2nd 1.058 (5 l). 3rd 1.039 (5 l). Obviously stirring, vorlaufing etc along the way. as 16 litres was my kettle volume there is obviously a decent amount of sugars being left behind here. Gravity into boil was 1.065. (At a guess, how long do you stir for each time?)

I also discovered my boil-off rate is surprisingly low (considering a decent rolling boil), around 2.5 l/h, so I ended up with around 12.5 l inthe carboy at 1.086. All in all came out to a brewhouse efficiency of 66%. An improvement but not great. Hopefully the next - lower gravity - brew will take me up over 70%

/David.

 

[chickypad]

At 2.2L/kg mash thickness your first runnings should be more like 1.110 if you got full conversion, so assuming your measurements are accurate your conversion efficiency is pretty poor. Sounds like you need to target that first or you won't see better efficiency even with lower gravity beers (the loss of efficiency with higher gravity is primarily due to lower lauter efficiency on the bigger grainbill). Crush is usually the biggest culprit but sounds like you addressed that. You said your thermometer is calibrated. What is your recipe - do you have a big adjunct load? Are you monitoring your water/pH? See Kai's page below for troubleshooting.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency

 

[IslandLizard]

At 2.2L/kg mash thickness your first runnings should be more like 1.110 if you got full conversion, so assuming your measurements are accurate your conversion efficiency is pretty poor.

That is low. @DavidSwede, what kind of malt are you using? How old is it?

Mash in at 1.5 qts/lb, sparge 2x with equal volume.

That mash of ~1qt/lb is much too thick. 1.5qts/lb would be much better. I wouldn't go below 1.25 qts/lb, which is still too thick IMO. How much volume is your mash tun?

1st runnings (6 l), 1.083. 2nd 1.058 (5 l). 3rd 1.039 (5 l)

This^ is a clear sign there is way too much wort left behind in your mash tun after each lautering. IOW, you're not draining it all the way each time. What do you use as a filter on the bottom of your round cooler mash tun? How high is the spigot above the bottom?

More typical gravities of your 3 runnings would have been in this case: 1.083, ~1.040, and ~1.020.

 

[dmtaylor]

Follow-up;

I did indeed, crush it until I was scared;

Im still hand-cranking and it was so fine it was an effort to turn the handle. this is how it went down...
5.1kg fermentables, .3kg rice hulls. 2.2 l/kg thickness, strike water 77degC, mash-in (after hardcore stir) 69degC.

All gravity readings temp adjusted; 1st runnings (6 l), 1.083. 2nd 1.058 (5 l). 3rd 1.039 (5 l). Obviously stirring, vorlaufing etc along the way. as 16 litres was my kettle volume there is obviously a decent amount of sugars being left behind here. Gravity into boil was 1.065. (At a guess, how long do you stir for each time?)

I also discovered my boil-off rate is surprisingly low (considering a decent rolling boil), around 2.5 l/h, so I ended up with around 12.5 l inthe carboy at 1.086. All in all came out to a brewhouse efficiency of 66%. An improvement but not great. Hopefully the next - lower gravity - brew will take me up over 70%

Great to hear -- sounds like a success to me -- it's not easy even for experienced brewers to get 66% brewhouse efficiency with a 1.086 beer! That's actually impressive!

For the sparges, I stir for literally about 1-2 minutes then runoff right away. No need to stir longer or rest longer, just stir the hot water in then run.

Your boiloff rate does seem a bit slow. That's okay, though, nothing to worry about. Just use slightly less water next time. Your efficiency will fall slightly for a 1.086 beer. But, like we've discussed, for a standard strength beer of like 1.055 or whatever, your efficiency should actually jump into the mid-70s.... and maybe even 80% next time, that's my prediction.

Good to see you're on the path!

 

[DavidSwede]

That is low. @DavidSwede, what kind of malt are you using? How old is it?

Belgian Pale Ale, cant vouch for how old it is but bought from LHBS only 2 days prior.

That mash of ~1qt/lb is much too thick. 1.5qts/lb would be much better. I wouldn't go below 1.25 qts/lb, which is still too thick IMO. How much volume is your mash tun?

26 l round cooler. Holds temp well. I was pondering the deadspace today... I reckon for now i'll just raise it up a bit and tilt it...should cut 30-40% of the dead space. The spigot is annoyingly high on it. The thickness was suggested by a previous post. I guess each to their own.

This^ is a clear sign there is way too much wort left behind in your mash tun after each lautering. IOW, you're not draining it all the way each time. What do you use as a filter on the bottom of your round cooler mash tun? How high is the spigot above the bottom?

This was definitely an issue. The intention was actually to collect 7.5 l on the first runnings but got stuck at the 6 l mark, I decided as I was close to just increase the 2 sparges a bit. I did do a 3rd sparge just to see what the gravity came out as... 1.023. I considered adding it and going for a 2 hour boil but I had dinner reservations

 

[IslandLizard]

26 l round cooler. Holds temp well. I was pondering the deadspace today... I reckon for now i'll just raise it up a bit and tilt it...should cut 30-40% of the dead space. The spigot is annoyingly high on it.

Are you talking about a false bottom you want to raise? Raising that won't make a difference. You'd need a diptube that goes down from the spigot to the bottom of the tun. As long as the siphon doesn't get lost/broken/interrupted, it should drain most of the wort from the deadspace under the false bottom. If the diptube goes down the center, tilting will have a negative effect.

A large deadspace under a false bottom has another negative effect on your mash efficiency. That volume of water/wort trapped underneath is not accessible to the grist above it, unless you recirculate the wort.

Can you post a picture of the inside perhaps?

Although longer boiling will condense the wort more, most ale malt based wort only needs a 60' boil. Pilsner based, 90'. Even those temps are guidelines, shorter boils can be successful. Except for high gravity brews or in "emergencies," boiling longer to get the intended gravity is the wrong way to go about brewing. You're much better off fixing the drainage (lautering) from the tun.

You could use a voile bag inside the tun as your wort separator. Simply lift it out after the mash is done, drain/pour all the wort into your kettle. Return the bag, add sparge water, stir well, lift the bag out again. Repeat for 2nd sparge.

 

[beermanpete]

Dead space under the false bottom is called the foundation. You need to determine this volume and add that amount of water to the strike water. For example, if your foundation is 2 liters and your mash water is 11.88 liters (5.4 kg malt at 2.2l/kg) you need 13.88l of strike water.

It seems like you need to characterise your system better. I.e., determine how much water or wort is left behind at each transfer/step, boil off rate, etc. With this info you can calculate how wort you need to make to end up with your target volume in the fermenter and therefore how much malt use.

 

[DavidSwede]

Are you talking about a false bottom you want to raise?

There is no false bottom, its just a bazooka attatched to the spigot. So tilting should reduce the deadspace, creating a - 2 dimensional - triangular space instead of rectangular below the spigot line. Its not ideal though.

 

[IslandLizard]

There is no false bottom, its just a bazooka attatched to the spigot. So tilting should reduce the deadspace, creating a - 2 dimensional - triangular space instead of rectangular below the spigot line. Its not ideal though.

Sorry I misunderstood. As long as the bazooka is still draining when tilted, that surely will help reduce the amount of wort left behind. You really want to minimize that. Ideally, the bazooka lies on the bottom or even better, in a recess.

You could try putting the bazooka on the bottom of the cooler, and use 2 90° elbows and a short piece of tubing in between to create a "Z." One end of elbow #1 connects to your spigot, and one end of elbow #2 goes into your bazooka. Use that short piece of tubing to connect the 2 elbow ends in the middle, the part of the "Z" that goes down vertically.

 

[Dland]

I read though this, sounds like progress is being made. I did not notice if anyone mentioned the iodine test(pharmacy type iodine turns dark purplish in presence of unconverted starch) to see if conversion was completed. Every time I have checked my mash with it, have had full conversion, so I don't do it much anymore, but it is a useful tool to rule that aspect out.

As someone mentioned above, paying attention to enzyme potential of grain bill also important.