Tart flavor that does not go away in recent brews

[withanx]

I am an all grain brewer, and lately my beers have had a strong tart flavor in the finish. I had never had a problem with this, but I took about a year off of brewing (had a house fire), and everything I have brewed since coming back has had this flavor.

There are a couple of factors that I am considering that might have done this.

The first thing I immediately thought was that my plastic buckets had somehow gotten bacteria in them that could not be removed by my normal soak, scrub, and sanitize methods. The buckets did sit open in my garage for 6+ months and had lots of crud and dust to clean out before using them. There are no large visible scratches, but there could possibly be some scratches I can not see that could harbor bacteria? For the last couple of batches, I have switched to glass carboys to eliminate this possibility.

Also, since starting back again, I have not been using secondary fermenters, and I have been cold crashing my beers before kegging. I have had a similar flavor in the past immediately after kegging with beers I did not do a secondary fermentation with, but it would usually clear up within a week or two of conditioning in the keg. I'm wondering if since I am cold crashing, are there not enough yeast left in suspension to clean up the acetaldehyde? Has anyone ever heard of persisting acetaldehyde problems with beers that don't go to secondary and are cold crashed?

 

[rhys333]

If changing out your primary fermentors doesn't fix the issue, perhaps its another piece of hardware... old tubing maybe?

Just wondering, are you adding salts and adjusting mash pH? If not, it could be that your pH is too low (particularly if brewing darker beers).

 

[withanx]

If changing out your primary fermentors doesn't fix the issue, perhaps its another piece of hardware... old tubing maybe?

My pump has some old silicon tubing that has turned a yellow color. It was left with water in it after the house fire for months. That being said, I've taken apart the pump, cleaned everything, circulated PBW through the hoses for 30+ minutes, and the only time it comes in contact with the wort post-boil is during the whirlpool process, where I run boiling wort through it for 20 minutes before the cooling process begins (using the pump + an immersion chiller). Do you think it is possible that the tubing still has living bugs in it after all that? Should replace the tubing just to be safe?

Just wondering, are you adding salts and adjusting mash pH? If not, it could be that your pH is too low (particularly if brewing darker beers).

I brew with distilled water and add salts to reach the desired water profile using Bru'n water. I always check my mash PH with a meter to make sure I'm within an acceptable 5.2-5.4 range.

 

[Horseflesh]

I once had a chilled batch go tart overnight after kegging. Nothing really made sense to me. My best guess was that I had somehow left a puddle of concentrated StarSan at the bottom of the keg.

Sounds like your tubing should be OK, but I'd replace it anyway. Cheap insurance.

Hey, what is the pH of the final beer?

 

[fourfarthing]

What sanitizer do you use? Also, are you using multiple yeast strains or all the same yeast?

 

[ba-brewer]

how do you cold crash and are you doing anything to prevent air from entering the fermentor?

I had a two batches that where not right(not tart though) and both lagered in a secondary inside my keezer with bad oxygen prevention. I now just go from primary to keg and cold crash or lager while it carbonates.

 

[mattdee1]

If I were you I'd cut the crap, bite the bullet, and just replace all the plastic gear that touches the beer on the cold side -- buckets, lids, airlocks, tubing, racking cane, bottling gear (if applicable), etc. Throw that stuff in the trash. If you like, keep the buckets, mark them somehow, and use them for storing grains or whatever.

I had an unfortunate 10gal batch infection after a period of downtime, and the above is what I did rather than risk wasting another 7-8 hours of my time. It fixed the problem, by the way.

Good luck

 

[LarMoeCur]

First, I'd pitch the old bucket. They are cheap in comparison to losing a batch of beer or two from an infection. Lacto can hide in very small if not micro scratches. It only takes a few microscopic cells to colonize your beer.

Second, Do you take a gravity ready before cold crashing? It sounds like your on the right track to me. I think you are not giving the yeast enough time to clean up some unwanted flavors. I do not secondary either. I let the beer completely finish out. Air lock is flat down. No positive pressure at all. And I still give it another day or two. I then rack into a keg to cold condition.

Third, When is the last time you took apart your kegs? Kegs can infect your beer too. Bugs can hide in the poppets and O rings even the air and gas connectors. It might be time to take your kegs apart (deep clean with hot PBW) and replace the rings.

 

[withanx]

Second, Do you take a gravity ready before cold crashing? It sounds like your on the right track to me. I think you are not giving the yeast enough time to clean up some unwanted flavors. I do not secondary either. I let the beer completely finish out. Air lock is flat down. No positive pressure at all. And I still give it another day or two. I then rack into a keg to cold condition.

I don't usually take gravity readings during fermentation, only when racking off. I actually leave the beer in primary for 3-5 weeks before racking to keg, so I think the yeast should have plenty of time to clean up if that is something they are going to do in primary. I guess I was wondering if they wouldn't clean up if there are too many yeast still or if the traub was somehow affecting their activity? Should I be racking to keg sooner?

Third, When is the last time you took apart your kegs? Kegs can infect your beer too. Bugs can hide in the poppets and O rings even the air and gas connectors. It might be time to take your kegs apart (deep clean with hot PBW) and replace the rings.

I take apart my kegs and oxy and sanitize after every batch. I haven't replaced the rings in years though.

how do you cold crash and are you doing anything to prevent air from entering the fermentor?

Temp controlled refrigerator at 36-38, usually 2-4 days at that temp before racking to keg. The buckets I was using had rubber o-rings, and I've never noticed any issues related to air getting into the fermentors.

What sanitizer do you use? Also, are you using multiple yeast strains or all the same yeast?

Star San, and about 80% of the time I'm brewing ales with 1056. Occasionally a Hef or Belgian.

If I were you I'd cut the crap, bite the bullet, and just replace all the plastic gear that touches the beer on the cold side -- buckets, lids, airlocks, tubing, racking cane, bottling gear (if applicable), etc. Throw that stuff in the trash. If you like, keep the buckets, mark them somehow, and use them for storing grains or whatever.

Yeah, I'm starting to realize it's not worth having unknown variables like plastic bucket scratches ruining my beer. Heavy glass carboys are less convenient, but worth the peace of mind.

 

[fourfarthing]

Agreed on the new buy. I had a batch that was too tart bc it emptied an airlock on starsan during the crash and then got racked on some more I forgot to empty out of the carboy.

 

[ba-brewer]

Temp controlled refrigerator at 36-38, usually 2-4 days at that temp before racking to keg. The buckets I was using had rubber o-rings, and I've never noticed any issues related to air getting into the fermentors.

If the bucket is sealed and you get a whoosh sound on opening then no air got in. If you have an air lock or blow off tube arrangement then air is getting pulled in while cooling.