Sweating Apples for Cider

[CV_Apple_Gal]

This is my second time making hard cider and this year I'm interested in trying to sweat my apples, especially because I was not entirely satisfied with the sweetness level of my first batch of cider. I'm hoping that sweating my apples can help this somewhat.

After tasting all the apples from my various trees, (still working to identify them) I picked a couple of bushels of apples that tasted good and seemed ripe. I can't do any pressing for about a month, is this ok for sweating apples? I've read a bunch of different methods.

 

[madscientist451]

Welcome to HBT!
I always sweat the apples for at least a month before pressing. However, its still early in the apple season, and generally speaking, early season apples don't store very well. Apples are loosely categorized as early, mid and late season. I've noticed my best cider comes from late season apples, but you have to use what you have. Look at the apples every 3-4 days and toss out any that are going bad, one rotten apple will make others spoil as well. If you can put a dent in an apple with your thumb, they're ready for cider making. You need a cool place to store them.
You can get free apples by asking neighbors with trees in their yards that would like the help of cleaning them up and I've seen free/cheap apples on FB marketplace. Check with local growers for "seconds" which are either too big, too small or appearance problem apples. Around here the going price is $8/bushel for seconds, which is pretty cheap. Sometimes the seconds are not ripe, which are not really that great for cider, but again, you have to use what you can get.
Cider will usually ferment all the way to dryness so sweating the apples may improve the flavor, but its not going to change the sweetness of the fermented cider. If all you can get are eating apples, try to get more varieties in the mix, but don't put more than 10-15% acidic or really tart apples in.
S-04 English Ale yeast leaves a small amount of sweetness compared to wine yeast which will go completely dry.
I usually use Cider House Select yeast which makes a nice dry cider and then back sweeten to taste with frozen apple juice concentrate, but you can use honey, plain sugar, or something like stevia to back sweeten the cider. Note that fermentable sugar will get the fermentation going again, so I only back sweeten one 1.5 L bottle at a time, keep it in the fridge and drink it within a week or so. Lately I've been lazy and have been using Angry Orchard cider to backsweeten "in the glass". About 2 oz Angry Orchard (which is pretty sweet to my taste) in 12 oz home made dry cider over ice is a pretty nice drink for me.

 

[FLYPacNW]

There is a lot of literature out there in favor of sweating apples. If you have the means and space, I'd say go for it. I too am a novice, but my understanding of sweating is that it is reduces moisture, which increases brix. That certainly can contribute to sweetness, but it will definitely contribute to higher ABV as it will give you a higher initial SG. If you desire increased sweetness, I would recommend you slow your fermentation by decreasing the temperature at which you ferment for a long, slow fermentation. You may also consider using SafCider's AS-2 yeast, which has a published temperature range of 50-86 degrees F. I let my current batch kick off at 60 deg F and then cranked it down to 36F. So far it's been a slow, but steady fermentation that appears to be doing just fine.

Good luck let us know how you choose to proceed and what the results are. It's great learning for all of us!

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep, when we start we have all been surprised at how "unsweet" our first ciders are. This of course is because fully fermented cider means that almost all the fermentable sugar has been converted to alcohol and CO2.

Some sources suggest that about 4% of the juice is "flavour compounds", i.e acid, tannins, etc so I suppose that sweating which reduces the moisture content might concentrate the flavour. My understanding is that the idea of sweating is to give the starch time to transform into sugar and pectin to degrade thus making it easier to extract the juice and also result in a higher SG.

I agree that S04 can leave a little sweetness as I have had it finish at around 1.002 - 1.004. However I think that the only ways to be sure of some sweetness is to add a non-fermentable sweetener, or stop fermentation while there is still fermentable sugar left. I must say that the perceived sweetness of some of my ciders has improved after they have been allowed to mature (6 - 12 months). You might try this.

I now tend to either stop fermentation at the SG that relates to sweetness level that I want, or by adding sugar, juice, AJC etc to the desired SG and then stop further fermentation. This can be done by chemical means (I haven't done this) or by heat pasteurising (which is the method that I use because it seems to be a bit more "crafty").

Heat pasteurising can also be used to produce sweet carbonated cider. In this case the cider is bottled and further fermentation is allowed to continue until carbonation and the desired sweetness SG is achieved, then it is pasteurised.

Pappers sticky at the top of the forum is a good place to start. You could also look up my reply to Hoboturtle's post of 19 July (my reply was on 23 July). There is an attachment about carbonating and pasteurising.

As a guide, Andrew Lea (Craft Cider Making) suggests that Medium Dry Cider is about SG 1.010 and Medium Sweet is 1.015. I tend to bottle at about 1.010 to 1.012 and let carbonation continue until it reaches 2 vols of CO2 in the bottle. Pasteurising at this point results in a sweetness of around 1.006 - 1.008 which is just about right for me (and SWMBO). I did read somewhere that "flavour" tends to drop rapidly after about SG1.005.

Of course, heat pasteurising has the risk of creating volcanoes or bottle bombs with sealed bottles if not done correctly, so read up on it before going down this path. For still cider in unsealed bottles there isn't a problem.

Generally, exposing the cider to 65C (149F) for something like 10 minutes will effectively stop fermentation.

I know this is a bit long winded but I hope it helps.

Cheers!

 

[FLYPacNW]

Great write up! Never apologize for the long winded write ups! That's the good stuff!

 

[Chalkyt]

Has anyone used Safcider AS-2 (attachment above)?

I haven't heard of it but I found a review "Creating unique cider profiles with new yeast strains" (on the website for a local distributor of yeasts, malts, etc... Bintani Australia) which compares AB-1 (Apple Balanced), TF-6 (Tutti Fruiti), AS-2 (Apple Sweet), AC-4 (Apple Crisp) yeasts. The AS-2 seems to be biased towards citrus/apple whereas some others had a somewhat broader profile leaning towards exotic/floral/banana/red fruits.

I don't know what this all means in terms of how the cider tastes but some feedback would be good. Maybe one of these could be the next go-to yeast for cider!

 

[FLYPacNW]

Has anyone used Safcider AS-2 (attachment above)?

I haven't heard of it but I found a review "Creating unique cider profiles with new yeast strains" (on the website for a local distributor of yeasts, malts, etc... Bintani Australia) which compares AB-1 (Apple Balanced), TF-6 (Tutti Fruiti), AS-2 (Apple Sweet), AC-4 (Apple Crisp) yeasts. The AS-2 seems to be biased towards citrus/apple whereas some others had a somewhat broader profile leaning towards exotic/floral/banana/red fruits.

I don't know what this all means in terms of how the cider tastes but some feedback would be good. Maybe one of these could be the next go-to yeast for cider!

I am using it in my current batch. I will report back, it has quite a ways to go, however. I was surprised at the data sheet for AS-2 calling for temps in the 50F-86F temps. That seems quite high. I am running mine at 36F and the fermentation is moving long very steady at -0.0007 SG per day (I love Tilt Pro!)

 

[CV_Apple_Gal]

Thanks everyone!

What is the ideal temperature range for sweating? I've been keeping them in my house at around 65-45F, is this going to be too hot?

 

[doublejef]

I've search a lot about some easy way to keep some sweetness into cider which seems to be the holy graal for much cider makers. I found some interesting way.
Using a part of peers juice because it contain natural sorbitol.
Using batonage technique (maturing cider on lees moving it into cider once in a week during a least 14 moth).
Maturing into bottle or in fermenter.

 

[MtnGoatJoe]

I am running mine at 36F and the fermentation is moving long very steady at -0.0007 SG per day (I love Tilt Pro!)

Wait... What is a Tilt Pro? I'm looking at a website, and it seems like it's something you leave in the cider. Is that correct? How accurate is it? $250 is a lot of money, but if it's something you leave in the fermenter to constantly measure the SG, then, WOW. I'd pay $250 for that!

 

[mashpaddled]

If your goal is to make sweet or semi-sweet cider then sweating is going to be effective if you can make the must so high in sugar that the alcohol content gets too high for the yeast to ferment and they give up before the sugar content drops to zero. I doubt you can reduce moisture enough to get to that point without the apples spoiling unless you use a yeast with very low alcohol tolerance. You're much better off adopting a post-pitching technique. The two easiest ways are (1) arrest fermentation before it ends chemically and (2) bottle before fermentation ends and pasteurize the bottles immediately or shortly after if you want carbonation.

Somebody said it above--most people are surprised by how dry their first cider turns out. Cider must is a simple sugar buffet for yeast. They will ferment everything out if not controlled. If you use store apple juice or eating apples you'll end up with a bland product because most of the flavor in those apples are driven by sugar rather than tannin and/or acid in traditional cider apples.

 

[FLYPacNW]

Wait... What is a Tilt Pro? I'm looking at a website, and it seems like it's something you leave in the cider. Is that correct? How accurate is it? $250 is a lot of money, but if it's something you leave in the fermenter to constantly measure the SG, then, WOW. I'd pay $250 for that!

Tilt Pro is worth every penny! Yes, it's a little widget that floats in your cider/beer and gauges gravity and temp. There is a regular "Tilt" that is a little smaller (about the size of a 10 gauge shotgun shell); the Pro is a little larger (about the diameter of spice bottle) and has a little more power and reports the SG to FOUR places right of the decimal. Note that Tilt also makes a "repeater" that can boost the signal. Based on reviews I have a feeling the Pro might be a little more robust than the standard too. I use the Tilt Pro AND the repeater because I have stainless fermenters. That said, I can pick up the signal from the Tilt Pro from all but the farthest corners of our fairly large house. It's worth the cash...and its nice to be able to walk by the fermenter, glance at an iPhone/iPad/iPod and see what the actual SG is and see a trend. It even reports that it's fermenting at a rate of -0.0006 SG per day, which means I can easily look forward on the calendar and plan when I'll be doing my racking and thus have everything ready to go before hand. It's awesome.

 

[MtnGoatJoe]

Tilt Pro is worth every penny! Yes, it's a little widget that floats in your cider/beer and gauges gravity and temp.

I like to pasteurize my juice around 1.020, and I'm worried that there would be too much gunk floating on top of the juice to give an accurate reading. What do you think?

 

[FLYPacNW]

I have read that the foam action on top of a fermentation interfered with the earlier regular Tilt units, but I have yet to see a single hiccup in the one I've got in there right now. I calibrated 2 ways before used it on this first batch, and then when I loaded the cider in the fermentator I checked it against a hydrometer and it was dead-nuts on SG and temp.

YMMV, but mine has been great so far.

 

[Kees]

You can add alcohol when you have reached your desired sweetness level, like they make port wine.

 

[JimRausch]

Pre

Pressed 10 buckets of various apples, some crabapples, and some pears yesterday. Figure weighed about 150 lbs, and yield was 7 gallons total. Leaving 2 gallons fresh, and started the other 5 fermenting. Some of this I'll keep straight, and some I'll do up a Graf. I did sweat them in my garage for 3-4 weeks, and there were quite a few rotten ones (especially the pears) and a TON of fruit flies .