Supply wiring help

[BigJay13]

I have a home built in the 1940s. The original 3 prong dryer plug (pictured) is the supply I wanted to tie into this line somehow so I don’t have to run a line all the way back to the panel to save some money. This may be a fallacy to be honest. Anyway, the ground for the house is about 18” from the 3 prong outlet as pictured (it runs down the copper pipe that feeds the water inflow to the house).What is the cheapest, safe thing to get me a grounded 240v 50AMP GFCI protected feed to brew on? I was thinking if there was a switch I could install in that line that is already there that would feed a spa (brewery) panel that would do the trick and not allow anyone to use the dryer while brewing. The dryer utilizes a 60a breaker. Thanks HBT!

 

[Dland]

Let me preface by saying I'm not an electrician.

The three prong plug you have should have two hot leads at nominal 120V and the center one is ground. That should be a good 240V feed for heat elements.

If you want to run any 120V, for a brew pump for instance, you would need the 4th wire neutral to provide return for off balance voltage.

Whether 120V split phase can be achived by some function of spa panel, I do not know.

 

[tracer bullet]

To prevent simultaneous use, maybe have the brew system with a plug such that only one can actually be plugged in for use at a time.

As for GFCI, there are in-line solutions people use, I think they serve the purpose but I can't say as far as if they are allowed or not in a code sense. GFCI breaker may be an option?

 

[doug293cz]

A 60A circuit for dryer use is highly unusual. Most dryers are rated for 24A and run from a 30A circuit. A 60A breaker should be wired with 4AWG wire, but the wire running to the dryer outlet doesn't look big enough to be 4AWG. You really need to find out what wire size is run from that 60A breaker. If it is lighter than 4AWG, you need to use a lower rated breaker on that circuit.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

To prevent simultaneous use, maybe have the brew system with a plug such that only one can actually be plugged in for use at a time.

As for GFCI, there are in-line solutions people use, I think they serve the purpose but I can't say as far as if they are allowed or not in a code sense. GFCI breaker may be an option?

There is no code compliant way to add 4-wire functionality (240V and 120V both available) to a 3-wire outlet without adding a 4th wire going back to the service panel. If one of the original three wires is non-insulated, then it has to be a ground wire, and you have to run an insulated neutral back to the service panel. If all three wires are insulated (white, black, and red) then you can use the white as neutral, and run either a bare wire or green wire back to the service panel for ground.

Brew on

 

[Dland]

Yeah, that does not look like 4AWG, now that you mention it. Could be 6 though, if so, breaker is still not matched. \

Helpful hint: if the writing on wire is still legible, it will say what gauge it is.

 

[BigJay13]

I was very surprised. I took a picture of the breaker and the wire.

 

[doug293cz]

I was very surprised. I took a picture of the breaker and the wire. View attachment 715035View attachment 715036

That looks kosher. 10AWG wire with a 30A breaker is normal. 10/3 is also 4 conductor wire, so all you may need is an outlet change, and either a 30A GFCI breaker in the panel, or in a spa panel wired into an extension cord.

You couldn't run a 50A brewing panel from this circuit.

Brew on

 

[BigJay13]

[
]

That looks kosher. 10AWG wire with a 30A breaker is normal. 10/3 is also 4 conductor wire, so all you may need is an outlet change, and either a 30A GFCI breaker in the panel, or in a spa panel wired into an extension cord.

You couldn't run a 50A brewing panel from this circuit.

Brew on

Ok I’m building a 50 amp panel. Just so I understand what is going on here....

1) is that 60a breaker?
2) I’m assuming I need to run a new line to the panel with the a gfci (I know the answer to this)?
3) What wire do I need to run?

 

[doug293cz]

[
]

Ok I’m building a 50 amp panel. Just so I understand what is going on here....

1) is that 60a breaker?
2) I’m assuming I need to run a new line to the panel with the a gfci (I know the answer to this)?
3) What wire do I need to run?

You only need a 50A panel if you want to fire both the HLT and BK elements simultaneously. Otherwise you only need a 30A panel.

1) That is a 30A breaker. It's a two pole breaker for 240V, so each hot line is limited 30A max.
2) If you want to run a 50A panel, then you need to rewire with 6AWG wire, and change out the 30A breaker for a 50A GFCI breaker.
3) 6/3 (3 current conductors + 1 gnd conductor) for 50A

Brew on

 

[Sundy]

How far is it from the breaker panel to your brewing rig? You have space to add a 50A GFCI breaker in that panel. Run an appropriately sized cord to your rig and coil it up and hang it on the wall when you aren't using it. Make a new friend on an electrician and trade beer for electrical work.

 

[TheBluePhantom]

I have to disagree with a few people here. That wire is 10/3, not 10/3 w/G. It is a 3 wire system. I don't know what they put in currently, but that outlet doesn't have a ground. Dryer outlets are 120/240, no ground.

And please don't anyone say it is the same thing, yes they connect, but for code and safety they are different.

Run the new wire, you'll be happier in the long run.

 

[Mtrhdltd]

Hire an electrician. Cheaper than burning your house down or electrocuting yourself.

 

[Sundy]

I have to disagree with a few people here. That wire is 10/3, not 10/3 w/G. It is a 3 wire system. I don't know what they put in currently, but that outlet doesn't have a ground. Dryer outlets are 120/240, no ground.

And please don't anyone say it is the same thing, yes they connect, but for code and safety they are different.

Run the new wire, you'll be happier in the long run.

New dryer outlets do indeed have ground, neutral, and two 120VAC legs. Neutral is the one left off in older dryers, welders etc. Metal appliances without ground have been a big nono for quite some time.

 

[Sundy]

Hire an electrician. Cheaper than burning your house down or electrocuting yourself.

This ^^^

 

[TheBluePhantom]

New dryer outlets do indeed have ground, neutral, and two 120VAC legs. Neutral is the one left off in older dryers, welders etc. Metal appliances without ground have been a big nono for quite some time.

Yes, but he said 1940's house. I have a late 50's house and it had no ground. Here is a site with details:
Differences Between a 3 and 4-Pronged Dryer Hookup | iFiX, LLC

 

[Sundy]

Wiring from that era is out of my realm of knowledge.

 

[stevehaun]

10-3 nm cable should have 2 hots, neutral and ground. The neutral may be unconnected in the receptacle box and load center. The nm cable in the picture is not from the 1950s. The load center is modern as well.

 

[BigJay13]

Hire an electrician. Cheaper than burning your house down or electrocuting yourself.

I’ve got one that will just have me wire everything up, inspect it, and tie into the panel. More so trying to get a handle on costs and making sure I use the right gauge wire. I already purchased a 50AMP breaker and a spa panel with 50AMP GFCI.
I admittedly had a brain fart looking at the 30amp breaker for the dryer and thinking 30+30=60. Meanwhile the hot tub 50AMP breaker is below it—I know that doesn’t equal 100!

I’m going to install the spa panel and run 6/3 to it. I’ll have the electrician check it all. Thanks for the help!