Suggestions for CIP?

[jasonclick]

So I just put this EBIAB together and have used a few times. I was thinking of the next step would be some type of CIP setup. What I've been doing is recirculating 130F water with Oxyclean after brew day but that really doesn't do much for what's stuck to the inside of the kettle after the boil. I can buy a spray ball for the top of the kettle and would re-circulate throughout. My question is what cleaner to use? I know breweries use caustic cleaners but I don't believe that's available to homebrewers. Are there any cleaners that would work for this for homebrewers? Would a "beer line cleaner" work?

 

[Jtvann]

My suggestion for CIP on that would be dont CIP.

CIP was designed for larger vessels with powerful pumps that are hard to clean inside. You cant just wheel over a 10 barrel unitank and spray it out over the sink, or tip it over in the driveway and rinse it.

I got CIP for my 14 gallon unitank thinking that it was going to be hard to reach my arm in and clean it. know what I do after I CIP? Reach my arm in and clean it.

Our pumps are not powerful enough. The spray ball slits are so small that a grain of sand can bind it up without washing through. We don't use the same caustic cleaners for many good reasons. The list goes on and on for reasons not to CIP at the homebrew level. Theres pretty much only one reason that you would CIP at home.

Your system looks blingy and its cool.

 

[BrunDog]

I think you can successfully CIP... in my experience it my still require some manual wiping, but can be done. As noted above, the typical CIP ball is typically too big for our pumps to generate enough pressure, but smaller sprayers can work successfully. I personally use a drum sprayer from McMaster in 15 gallon vessels, and these work great with brewing pumps.

As far as cleaners, that's trickier. You need an agent that doesn't foam much. I use home-grown PBW successfully.

 

[mongoose33]

I do a combination CIP and hand-clean.

My setup looks like this:



Toward the end of the boil I'm pushing the wort through my counterflow chiller and back into the kettle via the whirlpool port. When the wort temp drops to my desired value, I move the whirlpool pump hose to the fermenter and move the wort there.

Once the fermenter is full, it's cleanup time. I will disconnect the hoses and spray most of the crap out of the kettle into the sink, then reconnect the same counterflow chiller config--except the output of the chiller goes into the sink, not to the whirlpool port.

I'll fill with 4 gallons of of hot water, then prime and pump. The junk inside the lines is expelled into the sink. When it runs clear, I'll stop pumping and reconnect the output line to the whirlpool port, fill the kettle to the 4 gallon level with hot water, then turn it on to heat it up to 160 degrees. I'll add enough PBW for the water, and then let the pump recirculate through the lines and the CF chiller.

I have a little sponge-on-a-handle thing I use to wash the higher inside of the kettle. I'm actually surprised at how well that works--I'm using 160-degree PBW water to wash the boil line inside the kettle, and the combo of hot water and PBW means it comes right off, lickety-split.



Then a little rinse using tap water in a hose, then it's back to draining the mix into the sink. I'll add some water to rinse down the inside, and then when it runs clear with tap water, I'm done. It's about 10 minutes of actual time except for while it's recirculating, during which time I'm cleaning up and putting away other things.

That all sounds harder than it is. If you're brewing in a driveway, it's harder to find a good place to drain and to supply hot water, but it can be done.

FWIW: I CIP my conical fermenter though I probably could get away without doing that. I have a separate pump I use for that.

 

[matt_m]

I wouldn't bother with anything through the lid. Rinse any hops and trub out including whatever of the scum line will come off with water pressure. Whirlpool 180F PBW for 30-60 minutes to clean the element and let the steam work on the rest of the scum line. Scrub the latter for 60s, drain rinse, dry and be done with it.

 

[jasonclick]

thanks for everyone's help! anyone use 5 Star Liquid Line Cleaner or PBW? I had that suggestion from someone else... the 5 star product

 

[Jtvann]

I've used PBW with success. I think the biggest thing was heat. I'd fill water just enough to cover all ports and add enough PBW for volume of water and recirculate at 150-160 for a half an hour. Immediately after, dump and rinse. Anything left should wipe off by hand.

 

[Franktalk]

I've also had success with PBW or DIY PBW in my CIP system. It takes almost everything off, and as Jtvann says the rest will wipe off easily. Most of the time I don't have to wipe at all; it may not be showroom clean but it is as clean as you need it to be for regular brewing purposes.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

The line cleaner "Liquid Line Cleaner" from 5 star is a 38 percent caustic blend. Their recommendations for cleaning lines is .5oz/gal. What they don't tell you is "Liquid Circulation Cleaner" is the same product per the MSDS active ingredient concentrations, with a dosing recommendation of 2oz/gal for brew kettles and lines. Run LLC at 2oz/gal 160-180F with a sprayball meant for small march/chugger pumps and your vessels and lines will be spotless.
Here is a before:

And after:

 

[BrunDog]

That reminds me... if you want to CIP effectively, you really need a bottom drain kettle.

 

[jasonclick]

The line cleaner "Liquid Line Cleaner" from 5 star is a 38 percent caustic blend. Their recommendations for cleaning lines is .5oz/gal. What they don't tell you is "Liquid Circulation Cleaner" is the same product per the MSDS active ingredient concentrations, with a dosing recommendation of 2oz/gal for brew kettles and lines. Run LLC at 2oz/gal 160-180F with a sprayball meant for small march/chugger pumps and your vessels and lines will be spotless.
Here is a before:
View attachment 692480
And after:
View attachment 692479

I think i'll try DIY PBW (since i have a pile of oxyclean) the next few times and see how that does. I'll probably try LLC also. Thanks for the info!

 

[jasonclick]

That reminds me... if you want to CIP effectively, you really need a bottom drain kettle.

yeah i was thinking about that. my diptube is just above the bottom but no way pulls it all out.

 

[IslandLizard]

"Liquid Line Cleaner" from 5 star is a 30ish percent caustic blend.

I can't find the MSDS.
Aside from 30% caustic soda and some EDTA, what else is in there?
You can buy gallon containers with 17% NaOH solution in hardware stores, such as Ace. It's dirt cheap. And also friggin' dangerous!

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

I had revised my post to the exact number listed in the MSDS, which is 38% caustic soda. Attached are the SDS and ingredient lists for LLC/LCC.