Suggestions for adding funk to Saison

[elproducto]

I'm going to do 10 gallons of Jamil Z's Saison from Brewing Classic Styles, using Wyeast 3711 French Saison.

I'd like to split the batch, and add some funk to 5 gallons.

What's the best way to do this? The only commercial dregs I have avail. are Orval and Rodenbach Grand Cru.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Either of what you have available should work. I would guess Rodenbach would give you a lot more sour and funk than Orval, which might just give you some brett funk.

 

[maskednegator]

Rodenbach is pastuerized, it won't give you anything.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Shows what I know.

 

[tasq]

As stated above... Rodenbach won't do anything for you.

I'd pitch roeselare, and add any dregs you can get your hands on.

This page has a list of beers you can use:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

I'd cast a vote for some Jolly Pumpkin dregs if you can get them.

 

[cfonnes]

Spring is a perfect time to catch some wild yeast.

 

[Calder]

3711 will not leave much for the bugs to work on.

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

also, in my limited experience with it, I have come to feel as though 3711 is a bit on the bland side of the saison yeast spectrum. It's good and all, it's just a bit one dimensional.

 

[rorygilmore]

As mentioned 3711 is a beast and won't leave much left for the bugs. I'd add 4-8oz of maltodextrin as brett can ferment it but the 3711 can not.

I recently had a bottle of Upright Brewing's Four Play which was very good. It's a 3711 saison with cherries, lacto, and brett brux (same as orval) added and then aged in Pinot barrels.

 

[Calder]

I bottled a 3711 Saison last night. Tasted pretty good (fermented high). At 5 weeks it was down to 1.002 from 1.059. Not much sugar left.

 

[RJSkypala]

try and get some Jolly Pumpkin. Bam Biere should work great since it is low ABV but any of them will do. Their house blend of microbes is pretty amazing and viable. In fact I am brewing a sour brown right now I am pitching on a 2nd gen. roeselare cake; I am about to open a bam biere to pitch the dregs in as well.

 

[McKinley]

I'd cast a vote for some Jolly Pumpkin dregs if you can get them.

Second on JP dregs. I pitched some La Roja dregs into a saison I did with 565. Its tasting pretty funky only 3 months old. If you use these, go easier on the hops, it tastes weird to have too much bitterness with the sour/funk. I did 35 IBU (Raeger) and its a touch too much.

I've heard 3711 attenuates quite well, which may not leave you much to feed the bugs. Are you adding back any dextrins, etc?

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

yeah. I wasn't happy with 3711. it definitely is easy to work with but is just to clean tasting. I'd think it'd work better for a pale biere de garde, actually, I'd think it'd be excellent for that. I'd say go for 3724 if you want that classic saison punch. I've never had any of the problems people relate having with it. just male sure to pitch a large starter and keep the temps at 85-90f. if you aren't willing to take the risk, maybe try wyeasts forbidden fruit. I could see that working quite well in a funky saison.

 

[elproducto]

Unfortunately, I live in Canada, so i'm unable to get Jolly Pumpkin. I'm headed to Florida for a week at the end of the month, but I'm not hopeful I'll find any.

I do have some Orval.

Ok, so if I let the 3711 do it's thing and ferment down. Should I rack to secondary and then add some Malto Dextrine, and my Orval dregs? I worried that if the 3711 is as attenuative as it sounds like, there won't be any food for the bugs.

 

[rorygilmore]

I don't see why you can't just add the maltodextrin during the boil, as the 3711 shouldn't be able to touch that. The dregs should be fine to add in the secondary, but it would be probably be fine to add them right from the start too.

Also, another suggestion to help excentuate the funk would be to use a small percentage of acidulated malt in the grain bill. I recently made a 3711 saison with about 5% and it gave it just a hint of sourness. My guess is that would work really well with brett.

 

[elproducto]

Thanks, I wasn't sure if the maltodextrin would get eaten by the yeast or not. That's what I'll do.

 

[dcHokie]

I don't see why you can't just add the maltodextrin during the boil, as the 3711 shouldn't be able to touch that.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if the maltodextrin would get eaten by the yeast or not. That's what I'll do.

Aren't you splitting a 10 gallon batch and only want to add the malto for your funk half? Just curious as I wasn't sure how much extra body/mouth feel you'd get (or want) in your clean half if you decide to to add maltodextrin in the boil.

 

[rorygilmore]

Ah that's right. I'd add it after you split the two batches. It would probably ruin the non-funk batch.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Fart in it.

 

[elproducto]

Yep.. I'll add the Malto after I split.

 

[elproducto]

So.. vacation to USA, and I scored 3 JP's. 2 Bam Biere, and a Bam Noire.
I have a cake of 3711 ready to rack a Saison on to... think I'll boil in some malto and pitch the dregs at the same time, and see what happens.

 

[dcHokie]

So.. vacation to USA, and I scored 3 JP's. 2 Bam Biere, and a Bam Noire.
I have a cake of 3711 ready to rack a Saison on to... think I'll boil in some malto and pitch the dregs at the same time, and see what happens.

You won't regret it, I added a couple bottles worth of JP dregs to a Bam Biere clone. Smells and tastes fantastic after only a month

 

[elproducto]

You won't regret it, I added a couple bottles worth of JP dregs to a Bam Biere clone. Smells and tastes fantastic after only a month

What primary strain did you use?

 

[dcHokie]

I used 3711 in primary, but I only let the sacch go for a few days before I added the bugs and some oak cubes. I may actually give that batch a second charge of dregs & a little bit of malto since 3711 is such a sugar hog.

 

[elproducto]

Ok cool. I just cold crashed my first Saison which I used 3711. It brought a 1.058 beer down to 1.003ish. I'm planning on brewing another Saison tomorrow, and pitching it right on the 3711 cake. I was thinking as previously suggested of adding a few oz. of Malto to the boil, and just pitching the dregs right away.

Is your Bam Biere still in the fermenter? how long are you going to keep it there.

 

[dcHokie]

Is your Bam Biere still in the fermenter? how long are you going to keep it there.

If memory serves, it's been 5-6 weeks. I'll probably leave it another month or two, then bottle/cork this one. I'd like to put some away to see how it ages.

 

[elproducto]

Nice. thanks for the tips, sounds like a great way to make a reasonably quick, funky beer.

I live in canada, and we can't get JP beers, so the 3 I got are all they have. I'd like to try and pitch them in some wort to save... Although I suppose I could just harvest some after the Saison is done.

 

[dcHokie]

Nice. thanks for the tips, sounds like a great way to make a reasonably quick, funky beer.

I live in canada, and we can't get JP beers, so the 3 I got are all they have. I'd like to try and pitch them in some wort to save... Although I suppose I could just harvest some after the Saison is done.

Good luck. As other folks have mentioned, Jolly Pumpkin dregs tend to be pretty viable because they bottle so young. And you should be able to keep harvesting them over time.