"Style bias" on ratebeer.com and elsewhere

[JKoravos]

It just goes to show that most beer snobs don't appreciate beers that don't slap them in the face with hops or alcohol. Brew snobs tend to have a higher appreciation for the less in your face styles.

 

[Hound_Dog]

I think that you are all looking way too deep into this. I could care less how "in style" a beer is. I could really also care less if the crowd likes the beer. I would rather see tasting notes on a beer instead of a rating. This way I could easier identify beers that I may enjoy.

 

[passedpawn]

It just goes to show that most beer snobs don't appreciate beers that don't slap them in the face with hops or alcohol. Brew snobs tend to have a higher appreciation for the less in your face styles.

? .

 

[Dr_Gordon_Freeman]

OK, this has been bugging me for a while.
First let me say that ratebeer.com and other sites like BA are a great resource, and I do value them.

But it bothers me that some beer styles are always rated higher than others - this implies that the people who supply the ratings can't judge a beer against it's style, rather, they are playing favorites, giving their preferred styles boosted ratings. This is a problem because it implies that the average reviewer (certainly not every reviewer though) cannot judge a beer objectively. If this is the case, what good are the ratings?

For example, IPAs are on average rated higher than milds. This is even more exaggerated in some styles, such as double IPAs, that seem to get extra points simply for being in that style. To see what I mean just compare the overall percentage ranking to the style percentage ranking. (Of course the style ranking is a much more meaningful number.)

I mean, everyone is using the same 50-point scale for each beer, right? Does everyone think that higher gravity beers automatically get more points?

I noticed the exact same thing.... kudos for the post.

I don't like IPAs at all... I did find that Belgians are highly ranked as well though, and I like Belgians

 

[carnevoodoo]

? .

I think the guy is trying to pin beer snob vs. brewer and I don't really see it. What I see on RB and BA is the same thing I see on Yelp and any other social site. The hype machine will take over and the people will flock to the most popular and/or rare items. It seems to be the nature of the type of people who write reviews on the internet. They do it for recognition as much as anything else, and a lot of them want acceptance by looking cool to their peers.

I'm a total beer snob, but I'll take a good pint of Nautical Nut Brown over just about anything crazy and extreme. I know the difference between good and hype.

 

[Synovia]

OK, this has been bugging me for a while.
First let me say that ratebeer.com and other sites like BA are a great resource, and I do value them.

But it bothers me that some beer styles are always rated higher than others - this implies that the people who supply the ratings can't judge a beer against it's style, rather, they are playing favorites, giving their preferred styles boosted ratings. This is a problem because it implies that the average reviewer (certainly not every reviewer though) cannot judge a beer objectively. If this is the case, what good are the ratings?

For example, IPAs are on average rated higher than milds. This is even more exaggerated in some styles, such as double IPAs, that seem to get extra points simply for being in that style. To see what I mean just compare the overall percentage ranking to the style percentage ranking. (Of course the style ranking is a much more meaningful number.)

I mean, everyone is using the same 50-point scale for each beer, right? Does everyone think that higher gravity beers automatically get more points?

One day, when I have no dumb projects left to do, I'm going to pull all the beers and ratings from them, and find out what the correlations are for style, gravity, country of origin, etc, to score.

 

[Synovia]

It just goes to show that most beer snobs don't appreciate beers that don't slap them in the face with hops or alcohol. Brew snobs tend to have a higher appreciation for the less in your face styles.

People on rate beer are exactly that: beer snobs. They're not beer enthusiasts, which I think most people here are.

 

[SwampassJ]

Don't forget people voting higher based on the rarity of said beer.

 

[weirdboy]

Don't forget people voting higher based on the rarity of said beer.

To be fair, there is a euphoria factor at play when you're drinking something that's very hard to get that makes it tough to be unbiased. Very often you've traveled farther, worked harder to obtain, or spent more money to taste that beer. I'm sure if everyone did blind tastings their opinions on the top-ranked beers may change, but that's not going to happen anytime soon outside of competitions.

 

[JNye]

i use BA to get a feel for new beers I randomly buy. I'm a noob brewer but i've always loved beer. Those reviews are mostly uselees. They make me laugh. so often there will be 25 flavored mentioned, some coming late, lingering blah blah blah, yeah right dude, you have a magic palate that can detect 35 flavors at once. mostly that place is for beer snobs who like to feel important by reviewing, the reviews are even more pointless because they already have a biased before the even take a sip(they know what they are drinking, brand, hype, rare, price all that sshhh). sorry rant over

 

[Babylon]

OK my first post..But I must say I can't stand the taste of most IPAs...and really hoppy beer makes me want to cry

I'm not a big fan of hops either. That may change eventually, but I kinda doubt it. People told me the same thing about dry wine, and while I can appreciate it I still prefer a semi-sweet after working as a wine bartender (and drinking wine pretty much daily) for several years. I have had enough IPA that I can tell a good one from a bad one, but I'd rather drink soda than either one.

 

[Casey27]

One day, when I have no dumb projects left to do, I'm going to pull all the beers and ratings from them, and find out what the correlations are for style, gravity, country of origin, etc, to score.

Awesome! A stats nerd! Will you be applying multivariate techniques then?

 

[Casey27]

i use BA to get a feel for new beers I randomly buy. I'm a noob brewer but i've always loved beer. Those reviews are mostly uselees. They make me laugh. so often there will be 25 flavored mentioned, some coming late, lingering blah blah blah, yeah right dude, you have a magic palate that can detect 35 flavors at once. mostly that place is for beer snobs who like to feel important by reviewing, the reviews are even more pointless because they already have a biased before the even take a sip(they know what they are drinking, brand, hype, rare, price all that sshhh). sorry rant over

Yeah, I agree, the written reviews are mostly useless! I mean two people tasting the same beer from the same type of bottle give it completely different reviews (I guess they just have wildly different palates). You have to read 10 or 20 reviews and then look for some kind of consensus.
I do put a fair amount of trust in the style-based score on ratebeer.com; I just wish that the style percentage was in huge font and the overall percentage was in small font. That way it would be less deceiving than it is now.

 

[MVKTR2]

I'm a casual member of RB. As was mentioned earlier it is not a style specific judging system. In this type of a judging system it's simply impossible for a good blonde or even kolsch to stand up or be considered as good as something like a good barleywine or belgian dark strong.

However I try to take the style into consideration a bit. For instance 2 of my highest rated brews are Anchor Porter and Rouge Choc. Stout. I seem to remember having Anchor Liberty ale ranked surprisingly close to Rochfort 10. It's absolutely subjective, but that's all it really can be. Take it for what it is, not an authority but as a guide.

On that note it seems the only people I see using BA or RB as an authority are mens magazines etc. that do 1 or 2 bier articles per year. Sadly this is probably reflective of a certain percentage of the population which are becomingly increasingly negative, censorious, and judgmental in their snobbery toward 'less exclusive' biers. This is covered quite well in the most recent episode of New Brew Thursday with Greg Koch & James Woods (a great craft bier podcast btw).

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[ajfranke]

One day, when I have no dumb projects left to do, I'm going to pull all the beers and ratings from them, and find out what the correlations are for style, gravity, country of origin, etc, to score.

Was this you?

http://tabimushi.blogspot.com/2011/08/zymermetrics-style-matters.html

 

[Steelers77]

i use BA to get a feel for new beers I randomly buy. I'm a noob brewer but i've always loved beer. Those reviews are mostly uselees. They make me laugh. so often there will be 25 flavored mentioned, some coming late, lingering blah blah blah, yeah right dude, you have a magic palate that can detect 35 flavors at once. mostly that place is for beer snobs who like to feel important by reviewing, the reviews are even more pointless because they already have a biased before the even take a sip(they know what they are drinking, brand, hype, rare, price all that sshhh). sorry rant over

This is why I can't review on these sites.

Me reviewing a beer:

Mmm that good!
Huh, this is a good dry stout.

or

Ahh not good!
Bad example of the style, too hoppy for a stout.

Me recommending a beer to a friend:

Tony, Drink this, its really f'in good!

Could I do the every adjective and flavor that comes to mind review? Yes, but then my wife might slap me and tell me I'm being a nerd again.

I must also say that BA is good for finding a place to drink or purchase beers when traveling, it has helped me out more than a few times.

Cheers

 

[Scooby_Brew]

I never use RB or BA. Too many people on there who don't know what they are talking about. I mean how many times can you read about "citrus hops" in Guinness ES or a "malty aroma" in Paulaner Hefe?

 

[ndsgr]

It probably got pulled, but I went on one of those sites and there was a review of Jolly Pumpkin La Roja. One of the knocks against it was that it was sour and the guy thought it may have gotten infected and gave it low marks. I wish I would have taken a screen shot.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I always get the feeling that the scores are a combination of how cool the style is supposed to be and how fierce the flavor or ABV is. It seems people just compare all beers against each other regardless of style. It doesn't really make sense to say a mediocre IIIIIIIIIIIIIIPA is a better quality beer than a well made blonde ale but it could be ranked higher because it has more IBUs and ABV.

I got a kick out of reading some of the reviews of Liefman Cuvee Brut saying it was too sweet to be a real lambic so it got docked for not having lambic qualities. Well an oud bruin probably shouldn't taste like a lambic...