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Adam's Apples

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I posted an extract and steep stout recipe idea the other day and have made some adjustment based on some of the advice suggested. Probably a bit late to expect this to be properly ready for St Patrick's Day, but I think the final recipe should turn out well.

Any final suggestions for amendments or opinions on how you think this will turn out?

6.6lbs Light LME
0.5 lbs Treacle
0.4lbs Black patent malt
0.5lbs Chocolate malt
1.5lbs Roasted barley

1.50 oz. Chinook (12% AA, 60 min – bittering)
0.50 oz. Kent Goldings (5% AA 5 min - aroma)
Yeast – Safale-04

Can I add oats to this as an extract brew or do they require mashing? Somebody suggested oats will add body and produce a velvety mouthfeel, but I haven't yet used them. Can I buy cracked oats at my LHBS and steep?

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CBBaron

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Thats a pretty big, bitter stout with lots of roasted grains. It may be drinkable by St. Pattys but it would benefit from more time. The bitterness and roasted malts are both very high, fine if that is your goal but just wanted to point it out. If you want something for St Patricks I would go a little smaller and reduce your roasted grains to between 1 and 1.5# total. The oatmeal stout I did recently was wonderful in a month but it only had .5# chocolate and .75# roasted barley.
Also I usually like a little crystal in my stouts to add sweetness and body.
Here is the oatmeal stout I did for comparison.

I usually mash my oatmeal but some people do steep it. I don't think it adds a significant amount of flavor either way so I would skip it until you start partial mashing.

Craig
 

balto charlie

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CBBaron said:
I usually mash my oatmeal but some people do steep it. I don't think it adds a significant amount of flavor either way so I would skip it until you start partial mashing.

Craig
I thought an important(I could easily be wrong here) reason for oatmeal was body and mouthfeel of the beer
 
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Adam's Apples

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CBBaron said:
Thats a pretty big, bitter stout with lots of roasted grains. It may be drinkable by St. Pattys but it would benefit from more time. The bitterness and roasted malts are both very high, fine if that is your goal but just wanted to point it out. If you want something for St Patricks I would go a little smaller and reduce your roasted grains to between 1 and 1.5# total. The oatmeal stout I did recently was wonderful in a month but it only had .5# chocolate and .75# roasted barley.
Also I usually like a little crystal in my stouts to add sweetness and body.
Here is the oatmeal stout I did for comparison.

I usually mash my oatmeal but some people do steep it. I don't think it adds a significant amount of flavor either way so I would skip it until you start partial mashing.

Craig

Cheers for the advice. I wasn't sure about crystal, but if this will add body I could add some in place of the oats I asked about. I guess I could scale down the roasted barley to 1lb, I already scaled down the patent and chocolate following advice on the initial thread.

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CBBaron

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balto charlie said:
I thought an important(I could easily be wrong here) reason for oatmeal was body and mouthfeel of the beer
I had initially assumed that also as most oatmeal stouts are very full bodied and have a smooth mouth feel but my experience and that of several authors I have read recently is that oatmeal does not have a big impact on the beer. With a recipe as bold as the one posted by Adam's Apples I doubt it would be noticed.

Craig
 

CBBaron

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Adam's Apples said:
Cheers for the advice. I wasn't sure about crystal, but if this will add body I could add some in place of the oats I asked about. I guess I could scale down the roasted barley to 1lb, I already scaled down the patent and chocolate following advice on the initial thread.

Cheers
I'm not saying you should reduce the roasted barley, just that you should be aware as it is currently it is a very bold roasty stout. Nothing wrong with that but a lot of newbie brewers (myself included) make a recipe with a huge amount of roasted grains that ends up being too roasted for their tastes (or in some cases anyones taste). I think it is better to start a little more conservative on a recipe and have something drinkable, then scale up the boldness in future batches if it needs it, than to start out with something that may be difficult to drink. I've already had several batches that were a little on the edge and I have only been brewing a year.
I think crystal really helps to round out nearly any beer. I like using both a light crystal (40-60) and a dark crystal (120 or special B) in my stouts but unless you want a dry stout I think a little (.5-1#) of some kind of crystal helps.

Craig
 
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Adam's Apples

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Ok, all info considered - this is version no 10 or so!

6.6lbs Light LME
0.5 lbs Treacle
0.4lbs Black patent malt
0.4lbs Chocolate malt
1lbs Roasted barley
0.3lbs Crystal 60L

1.50 oz. Chinook (12% AA, 60 min – bittering)
0.50 oz. Kent Goldings (5% AA 5 min - aroma)
Yeast – Safale-04

Cut down the roasted barley as don't want it too harsh. Forgot the oats and added some crystal,not too dark if the flavour will already be quite roasted.

Hopefully this will be drinkable and not too big an effor for my 7th brew! If anything really stands out as being completely out of proportion then say, but hopefully this will be ok.

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CBBaron

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Looks good but are you sure you want that much bittering?
Otherwise I think it will be drinkable in March and even better after a few more weeks.
Craig
 
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Adam's Apples

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CBBaron said:
Looks good but are you sure you want that much bittering?
Otherwise I think it will be drinkable in March and even better after a few more weeks.
Craig
CBBaron, are you just referring to the first hop addition and their high AA? I do full 5 gallon boils, do you think this would be a bit too bitter. Or are you suggesting the grains would impart that bitterness?

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I suggest playing with those number in a brew calculator to see what you come up with. I agree it looks like it will have high IBU's and it sounds like you are looking for more malt flavor since you state you want a velvety mouth feel.

In response to your last question, yes from the hops addition and AA%.
 
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Adam's Apples

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GaryA said:
I suggest playing with those number in a brew calculator to see what you come up with. I agree it looks like it will have high IBU's and it sounds like you are looking for more malt flavor since you state you want a velvety mouth feel.

In response to your last question, yes from the hops addition and AA%.
Thanks

I did put the details into a recipator tool I found on 'http://hbd.org/recipator/', which gave me about 49 IBU. If I scale down the bittering hops to 1oz I get 33 IBU.

I'm still very much learning, but I thought 49 IBU wasn't overkill for a bold stout. You are right though, I was thinking this would be a heavy, malty stout - do you think scaling down to 1oz for the bittering hops would achieve this?

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CBBaron

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Adam's Apples said:
CBBaron, are you just referring to the first hop addition and their high AA? I do full 5 gallon boils, do you think this would be a bit too bitter. Or are you suggesting the grains would impart that bitterness?

Cheers
I was referring to the hops. My quick calculation puts you at about 78IBUs from the 60 min addition. Thats pretty bitter unless you are making an IPA or imperial something. Thats and IBU to OG ratio of about 1.33 which is high even for IPAs. 1oz of Chinook would I think would be better, especially your desire to start drinking it in 6 weeks. But then again it is not my stout.

Craig

<edit> Just saw your comments on a calculated 49IBU. What was your boil volume and formula used? That sounds low for 1.5 oz of Chinook unless you are boiling a high G wort. I get about 48IBU using Beertools for 1oz. Yes a big bold stout can handle up to about 1IBU per gravity point. A smoother more malty stout will have 1/2 to 2/3rds that.

<edit> I used the Replicator and got 63IBUs with Tinseth and 83 with Rager using a 6 gal boil (full boil)
 
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Adam's Apples

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CBBaron said:
I was referring to the hops. My quick calculation puts you at about 78IBUs from the 60 min addition. Thats pretty bitter unless you are making an IPA or imperial something. Thats and IBU to OG ratio of about 1.33 which is high even for IPAs. 1oz of Chinook would I think would be better, especially your desire to start drinking it in 6 weeks. But then again it is not my stout.

Craig

<edit> Just saw your comments on a calculated 49IBU. What was your boil volume and formula used? That sounds low for 1.5 oz of Chinook unless you are boiling a high G wort. I get about 48IBU using Beertools for 1oz. Yes a big bold stout can handle up to about 1IBU per gravity point. A smoother more malty stout will have 1/2 to 2/3rds that.
I used the recipator tool mentioned above. I input a 5.25 gallon boil and 5 gallon final yield post evaporation, which was mostly guesswork as it's the first time I've used the tool.

With 1oz chinook for 60 mins it predicts an IBU of 33 and with all the ingredients listed in the final version of my recipeit predicts and OG of 1.059. I'm not sure how accurate the tool is comapred to Beersmith. I did download a Beersmith trial, but I kept encountering a windows error when I tried to run it, so I deleted it. That's quite a difference in IBU though and if it's wrong it will really through my recipes off..

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CBBaron

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Interesting how much a difference in formula or volume can make in predicted IBUs. I think you just need to be consistent in how you use the tools and brew to your tastes. As for what to do with your stout that is up to you but my gut feeling is that 1.5oz of Chinook is too much for a stout with the possible exception of an RIS.

Update this thread when you start drinking it because I think either way you go it will be good.

Craig
 
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Adam's Apples

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Well thanks for the help CBBaron and everyone else who helped me tweak this.

I downloaded beersmith again and the only discernable difference was that chinook was 13% AA in Beersmith and 12% in the recipator tool. Even when I changed it it only made 3 IBU difference. I think Beersmith is a more comprehensive tool with a lot more options and tools etc, so I will be guided by it. When my palate is more educated I will get to know how much is enough and too much etc. Final recipe is now below, I figured if I slice the bittering hop potion in half I will achieve the more malty beer I originally had in mind.

6.6lbs Light LME
0.5 lbs Treacle
0.4lbs Black patent malt
0.4lbs Chocolate malt
1lbs Roasted barley
0.3lbs Crystal 60L

0.75 oz. Chinook (12% AA, 60 min – bittering)
0.50 oz. Kent Goldings (5% AA 5 min - aroma)
Yeast – Safale-04

I will let you know how it turn out.

Cheers
 
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