Stout with lager yeast?

[Dale Owen]

I'm wanting to brew a stout. I'm imagining one with a Mexican chocolate/coffee flavor profile. That includes cinnamon and some type of chilies, and, not to leave out any other part of the kitchen sink, mezcal or tequila soaked oak. Among the other thousand questions this raises is the one of yeast. I'm curious about brewing a stout with a lager yeast, especially one that would traditionally be used in a Vienna style lager. So, thoughts on using a lager yeast to brew a stout? If not too crazy, what about ferment temperature? Can/should I ferment at ale temperatures, which would be simple enough, as that's all I've ever brewed? And, if using a lager yeast to brew a stout is doable but I need to aim for lower temps, I guess I need advice on poor man's lager temperature control, as I'm not planning on buying a fridge/freezer just yet.

 

[govner1]

If you’re dead set on a lager yeast and lack temperature control why not go with a California lager yeast?

 

[dmtaylor]

You might want to just call this a Baltic porter, instead of a stout. Baltic porter is a strong black beer fermented with lager yeast.

As for fermenting a lager at warmer temperatures, I can tell you that many of them turn out just fine. S-189 is clean as a whistle at room temperature, I have used it many times with no off-flavors at all. Others report similar results with W-34/70. You can try it with other lager yeasts -- while I'm not exactly sure how it will work out in every case, I do know that sometimes I have been pleasantly surprised. Also, by the way, WLP029 Kolsch "ale" yeast is actually Saccharomyces pastorianus, i.e., it is a lager yeast that is known to ferment fairly clean at warmer temperatures. And I know you can also get great lager-like results from Wyeast 1007 at relatively warm temperatures. Any Kolsch or altbier yeast will be suitable. Lots and lots of great options.

 

[Dale Owen]

I guess what got me started on the lager yeast idea was that most Mexican beers are lagers, and my favorite Mexican lagers are the Vienna lagers, such Bohemia. So, if I really pursued this lager stout, it'd ideally be with a yeast like the one I'm seeing on White Labs, listed as Mexican Lager Yeast, but the temp profile is 50-55F, whereas I tend more towards more phenol friendly ale temps 70-80F. So, if I decide it would be a goodish idea to brew a stout with a lager yeast, it would likely be that, thus the need to figure out how I manage the temp control.

 

[MaxStout]

Tropical stouts (e.g., Lion Stout) often use lager yeast. You could build your recipe on one of those.

 

[TurnipGreen]

You should definitely do this. It sounds delicious.
If you can control the temp for the first couple days of active fermentation that alone would make a big difference. Or just say screw it and do at what ever temp you can.
I’ve used WLP 800,810, 830 and 850 just at my basement temps, around 65, with pretty good success, obviously better with a big healthy starter or yeast cake and temp control, but still solid.

another alternative would be to use a kveik yeast?

 

[Beermeister32]

I see you are in Michigan and today is November 20. If you are fermenting in your basement, you might have good fermenting conditions for lagers if there is some corner somewhere that gets into the 50F range.

 

[TheMadKing]

Tropical stouts can be brewed with lager yeasts

34/70 works well at 60F and throws minor fruity esters. I've used it a number of times and have been very happy with the results.

My tropical stout recipe is in the recipe database here on HBT

 

[Steveruch]

I brewed a stout with W34/70 that turned out fine.

 

[monkeymath]

I think the sweet-ish finish produced by ale yeasts nicely compliments the roast in a stout. Lager yeasts give more of a dry edge, at least to my taste. If you're going to use a lager yeast, I think you might want to bump the base grain a bit.
But I've never tried it myself, it's just a guess.

 

[KeizerBrewr]

Well, your location tags you in Michigan. What temps are you getting in your garage this time of year? Here in Oregon this time of year, if I leave the garage door cracked just a bit at night I can keep the garage in the low to mid 50's. I don't have much temperature control, cooling wise, but have an inkbird and a heating pad. As for the style, this would be a Baltic Porter, BJCP style 9C. I too plan on rocking a Baltic Porter here in a couple weeks once I clear my fermenter of 5.75 gallons of key lime Kolsch. The recipe I built uses Wyeast 2633 Octoberfest Lager blend, so I am safe if temps rise to the upper 50's during the day. If that doesn't suit you, 34/70 would work a trick too. Many homebrewers use it with good effect at room temps for a lager. I figured the 2633 would help push the malt character much like a good ale yeast would do, but will still ferment crisp like a lager should.

Also, if you don't mind, what do you have in mind for a recipe?