Stout - grainy/husky taste. Is it ruined?

[9Frank]

Hello everybody,

First time poster. I've made 6 kits before going all-grain, and i'm worried that i've messed up my first batch. After two weeks in the fermenter the gravity dropped from 1076 to 1022, which is good, but i feel a distinct grainy taste to the brew. I intend to keep it in the primary for another week, then move it into a glass carboy for 6 months @ cellar temperature ( 10-12 Celsius/ 52Fahrenheit) before bottling it.

Process:
1. Gear :
8.2 kg(18lbs) Grains
61% 5kg(11 lbs) Weyermann Pale Ale - 5,5 - 7,5 EBC
12% 1kg(2.2 lbs) Weyermann Roasted Barley - 1.000 - 1.300 EBC
12% 1kg(2.2 lbs) Weyermann Carapils 2,5 - 6,5 EBC
12% 1kg(2.2 lbs) Weyermann Carafa 800 - 1000 EBC
2.4% 0.2kg(0.4 lbs) Brewferm Chocolate 900 EBC.

My intention was to use half of the Roasted Barley and Carafa but there was a misunderstanding during the milling process and i was left with 8.2kg/18 lbs of mixed grains milled finer than expected. I decided to do it anyway.

71 gr(2.5oz) Tettnanger -3.8% alpha acids- @min 30
15 gr(0.5oz) Cascade - 8%- @min 10
33 gr(1.2oz) Cascade - at flame out- I left all of the above for another 5 minutes.

Yeast: Safale S04

OG: 1076
After two weeks in the fermeter the gravity is 1022

Estimated bitterness: 40 IBU.
Colour: Black

2. Mashing(one step):
I'm using a home made styrofoam masher which keeps my 30L( 8 gallons) pot at temperature, without major loses( 2C,35F/hour).
Mashed all my grains in the 30L pot @67 Celsius(153 F) for 90 minutes using 22L(5.8 gallons) of water. It came out really, really thick. I don't know about the mash PH but the bottled water i used was at 7.

3. Sparging
I used 15L(4Gallons) of water @ 82Celsius(179F).
Using another 30L(8gallon) pot and a gauze "filter" i could drain the wort from the mash then pour the hot water over the drained grains. This took over an hour because i had to do it in 3 rounds - i couln't fit all the mash in the gauze at once- that is why i'm not sure about the water/grains ratio.
It felt like making sweet coffee.
Wort collected: 26L(6.8 Gallons)

4. Boil
I did a 120 min boil to get the wort down to 20 L(5 gallons). Cooled it, pitched the yeast @ 20 Celsius( 68F) and stored it. It started bubbling later that day.


Now for the question: Is it possible to get rid of the husky taste -it is not subtle. I've read that cold conditioning could do that. Do you think dry hopping a week before bottling could cover it? I know stouts don't usually have aroma hops ..still...i want to save my beer.
Besides this, the fermenting beer tastes really, really roasted.

Thank you for taking the time to answer

 

[filthyastronaut]

If you mean astringency, I could see it being due to the high amounts of roasted grain. Altogether, even though carafa is less harsh, you have just over 25% roasted malt when you'd probably want to keep it no more than 15%. I'd say the best remedy would be time, although I probably wouldn't age a Stout of this strength in the carboy for 6 months. I'd bottle it in a week or two and start sampling bottles after three weeks, intermittently, to see where that gets you. That high FG may help you out by providing some sweetness to take the edge off.

 

[9Frank]

If you mean astringency, I could see it being due to the high amounts of roasted grain. Altogether, even though carafa is less harsh, you have just over 25% roasted malt when you'd probably want to keep it no more than 15%. I'd say the best remedy would be time, although I probably wouldn't age a Stout of this strength in the carboy for 6 months. I'd bottle it in a week or two and start sampling bottles after three weeks, intermittently, to see where that gets you. That high FG may help you out by providing some sweetness to take the edge off.

Even though some astringency is there i didn't mean that. I meant i could really taste the grains when i drank the wort. The smell and mostly the taste is that of the grains before the mash.
What's wrong with aging it for 6 months? Is the gravity too small to age for that long? Initially i wanted to age it for a month,then bottle it, but then i tasted it...

 

[brew_darrymore]

The batch is still young and taste will change down the road. It will mellow down for sure.

You can age it, of course, but I'd rather do it in the bottle. I usually keep my stouts (of SG 1.048-1.052) for a month in the fermenter and then bottle. I'll start drinking it a month after bottling, and usually the last bottles would be the best. That would be around 6 months after bottling.

Not sure if dry hopping is appropriate for a stout. I've never done it.

 

[filthyastronaut]

Even though some astringency is there i didn't mean that. I meant i could really taste the grains when i drank the wort. The smell and mostly the taste is that of the grains before the mash.
What's wrong with aging it for 6 months? Is the gravity too small to age for that long? Initially i wanted to age it for a month,then bottle it, but then i tasted it...

Hmmm. In that case it could actually be because of the high FG. Personally, though, I quite like the aroma and flavor of wort and I like it when I can detect it in a beer. I would probably have to taste your Stout to know exactly what you mean.

As for aging, a lot of people bulk age with good results, but I'd be hesitant unless I could really ensure low oxygen exposure. Bottles seem like they would be sealed better. I'd also say that bulk aging the entire batch just wouldn't be particularly necessary, and you'd be better served putting away bottles to cellar and tasting some over time to see how it evolves. It will still change and condition in the bottle over time. Given the strength, it may not need all that much conditioning anyway. A larger imperial stout would probably be a better bulk aging candidate, but I am brewing one this summer and I still plan to bottle after 3-4 weeks and age the bottles. All that said, if you think bulk aging would be worth it, it's not like it's considered bad practice or anything.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Hello everybody,



First time poster. I've made 6 kits before going all-grain, and i'm worried that i've messed up my first batch. After two weeks in the fermenter the gravity dropped from 1076 to 1022, which is good, but i feel a distinct grainy taste to the brew. I intend to keep it in the primary for another week, then move it into a glass carboy for 6 months @ cellar temperature ( 10-12 Celsius/ 52Fahrenheit) before bottling it.



Process:

1. Gear :

8.2 kg(18lbs) Grains

61% 5kg(11 lbs) Weyermann Pale Ale - 5,5 - 7,5 EBC

12% 1kg(2.2 lbs) Weyermann Roasted Barley - 1.000 - 1.300 EBC

12% 1kg(2.2 lbs) Weyermann Carapils 2,5 - 6,5 EBC

12% 1kg(2.2 lbs) Weyermann Carafa 800 - 1000 EBC

2.4% 0.2kg(0.4 lbs) Brewferm Chocolate 900 EBC.



My intention was to use half of the Roasted Barley and Carafa but there was a misunderstanding during the milling process and i was left with 8.2kg/18 lbs of mixed grains milled finer than expected. I decided to do it anyway.



71 gr(2.5oz) Tettnanger -3.8% alpha acids- @min 30

15 gr(0.5oz) Cascade - 8%- @min 10

33 gr(1.2oz) Cascade - at flame out- I left all of the above for another 5 minutes.



Yeast: Safale S04



OG: 1076

After two weeks in the fermeter the gravity is 1022



Estimated bitterness: 40 IBU.

Colour: Black



2. Mashing(one step):

I'm using a home made styrofoam masher which keeps my 30L( 8 gallons) pot at temperature, without major loses( 2C,35F/hour).

Mashed all my grains in the 30L pot @67 Celsius(153 F) for 90 minutes using 22L(5.8 gallons) of water. It came out really, really thick. I don't know about the mash PH but the bottled water i used was at 7.



3. Sparging

I used 15L(4Gallons) of water @ 82Celsius(179F).

Using another 30L(8gallon) pot and a gauze "filter" i could drain the wort from the mash then pour the hot water over the drained grains. This took over an hour because i had to do it in 3 rounds - i couln't fit all the mash in the gauze at once- that is why i'm not sure about the water/grains ratio.

It felt like making sweet coffee.

Wort collected: 26L(6.8 Gallons)



4. Boil

I did a 120 min boil to get the wort down to 20 L(5 gallons). Cooled it, pitched the yeast @ 20 Celsius( 68F) and stored it. It started bubbling later that day.





Now for the question: Is it possible to get rid of the husky taste -it is not subtle. I've read that cold conditioning could do that. Do you think dry hopping a week before bottling could cover it? I know stouts don't usually have aroma hops ..still...i want to save my beer.

Besides this, the fermenting beer tastes really, really roasted.



Thank you for taking the time to answer

That's an awful lot of roast...

I would assume that's the cause. Age it, it'll smooth out, regardless of OG, if it's too roasty it'll get better with time.

 

[9Frank]

Ok then. I'm going to take the middle road: Keep it for another 2 weeks in primary rack it in secondary and keep it 1 month @ cellar temperature then bottle it and taste it every week.
I will try to revive this thread with updates for anyone who is interested or has the same issue as me: husky/grainy taste; too much specialty grains.

For now, thanks for the answers: filthyastronaut, brew_darrymore and cyanmonkey

G'day

 

[mabrungard]

Unfortunately, the term "Spring Water" is useless as an indicator of suitability for brewing. More than likely, that water had more alkalinity than needed for that beer and its possible that the water extracted tannins and silicates into your wort. The main thing that I find that causes tannin and silicate extraction is oversparging and running off the wort to too low of a gravity. The usual stopping gravity is 1.008, but I've had to change my procedure to a 1.012 stopping point and I also limit the amount of sparing water I add to the mash. I now add water directly to the kettle to bring the wort to the proper pre-boil volume.

 

[spiff2268]

Meh, just call it "sour stout" and people will love it.

 

[9Frank]

Unfortunately, the term "Spring Water" is useless as an indicator of suitability for brewing. More than likely, that water had more alkalinity than needed for that beer and its possible that the water extracted tannins and silicates into your wort. The main thing that I find that causes tannin and silicate extraction is oversparging and running off the wort to too low of a gravity. The usual stopping gravity is 1.008, but I've had to change my procedure to a 1.012 stopping point and I also limit the amount of sparing water I add to the mash. I now add water directly to the kettle to bring the wort to the proper pre-boil volume.

Thanks man. That's a really great input for me. I'll try to incorporate this. You're basically saying that "no-sparge" is safer - at least for a newbie.

 

[9Frank]

Meh, just call it "sour stout" and people will love it.

Hah! I'm sure that this batch won't go to waste even if it's sour

 

[mabrungard]

Safer? Probably, but you could be losing a lot of efficiency. In a way, what I'm advocating is more of a batch sparging approach but with some of the water from the HLT reserved and added directly to the kettle as needed to top off the pre-boil kettle volume.

 

[9Frank]

5 weeks in primary now;
Moved it into secondary into a cellar at 13 Celsius(55 Fahrenheit)
I decided to go for a 3 month cold-conditioning before bottling it.
I'll update this thread when it's due.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

+1 on bottling and letting it age in the bottle. It will mellow. Just a quick point about tannins. Your sparge water was a bit on the hot side. You should try to keep it below 170F. If it is too hot that can contribute to tannin extraction.

 

[RM-MN]

5 weeks in primary now;
Moved it into secondary into a cellar at 13 Celsius(55 Fahrenheit)
I decided to go for a 3 month cold-conditioning before bottling it.
I'll update this thread when it's due.

Maturing your beer is a chemical/biological operation and like many of those types, it goes faster with higher temps (within limits, biological operations pretty much cease when everything dies). Let it sit at room temp instead.

 

[9Frank]

Back again with a question and an update.

Its been 10 weeks in the cellar in the secondary. I decided to go with the carboy conditioning and not bottle.
The question is how much of an impact, do you guys think, temperature fluctuation would have on what I'm trying to do.
Because of the heat-wave that now struck this part of the Earth i now have a range of temp in my cellar: 12 C(53 Fah) - 19 C (67 Fah).
Please be sure to read the whole post before answering.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Back again with a question and an update.

Its been 10 weeks in the cellar in the secondary. I decided to go with the carboy conditioning and not bottle.
The question is how much of an impact, do you guys think, temperature fluctuation would have on what I'm trying to do.
Because of the heat-wave that now struck this part of the Earth i now have a range of temp in my cellar: 12 C(53 Fah) - 19 C (67 Fah).
Please be sure to read the whole post before answering.

I think you'll be fine. Many barrel rooms at breweries fluctuate with the weather. Besides, I wouldn't consider that a HUGE swing. If it was freezing and then going to room temperature it might get weird, but you're still in a good conditioning range.

 

[brew_darrymore]

Because of the heat-wave that now struck this part of the Earth i now have a range of temp in my cellar: 12 C(53 Fah) - 19 C (67 Fah).

You should be fine. Keep in mind that while the air temperature swings from 12C to 19C, your 5 gallons of beer would probably move only a degree or two at the most due to the larger thermal mass.

 

[9Frank]

Ok then. It's been more than 10 months now and i still have about 20 bottled undrinkable-beers in the cellar. It's time to call it quits. The husky taste has not subsided. I added vanilla beans and cinnamon in the carboy with no success to overpower the taste. One advice i would like to get out there: it pays-off to be cheap on the special grains.
Since then i've brewed a couple of beers that have turned out great.

Thank you for all your support on this.
End