Wort going into FV tastes spicy/peppery

[Alexholsch]

Hey guys so my last two brews, currently fermenting, taste spicy/peppery and very harsh. Ive been told this will likely clear out specially with longer conditioning times. I would like to avoid it all together and understand why this is actually happening; my guess, some kind of hop compound. Maybe my liquor? Anyway here are the recipes for both beers. Any help is appreciated!

IPA
6.4% / 15 °P
All Grain

BB60 Pale Ale​

70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 28 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 21.52 L
Sparge Water: 18.12 L
Total Water: 39.64 L
Boil Volume: 33.61 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.055

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.061
Final Gravity: 1.012
IBU (Tinseth): 60
BU/GU: 0.99
Colour: 14.6 EBC

Mash​

Temperature — 66 °C — 60 min

Malts (7.97 kg)​

7.2 kg (90.3%) — Avangard Pale Ale Malt — Grain — 5.9 EBC
400 g (5%) — Briess American Honey Malt — Grain — 65 EBC
200 g (2.5%) — Weyermann Carapils/Carafoam — Grain — 3.9 EBC
170 g (2.1%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 3.5 EBC

Hops (381 g)​

26 g (23 IBU) — Simcoe 12.7% — Boil — 60 min
5 g (5 IBU) — Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) 15.5% — Boil — 50 min
25 g (9 IBU) — Cascade 6.7% — Boil — 30 min
28 g (7 IBU) — Cascade 6.7% — Boil — 15 min
28 g (10 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Boil — 15 min
37 g (2 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Boil — 0 min
37 g (3 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Boil — 0 min
56 g — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — 6 days
56 g — Centennial 10% — Dry Hop — 6 days
28 g — Simcoe 13% — Dry Hop — 6 days
20 g — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — 3 days
20 g — Centennial 10% — Dry Hop — 3 days
15 g — Simcoe 13% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Hopstand at 70 °C

Miscs​

3.055 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
10.182 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
1.591 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
5.307 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge

Yeast​

1.3 pkg — Fermentis US-05 Safale American 81%

Fermentation​

Primary — 20 °C — 5 days
Diacetyl/Flocc — 22 °C — 3 days
Dump yeast/dry hop — 18 °C — 1.5 days
Dry hop "free" rise — 20.5 °C — 3 days
Gelatin/Biofine — 0 °C — 2.5 days
FV/Keg — 5 °C — 2 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+
118Mg2+
0Na+
8Cl-
58SO42-
208HCO3-
16

Hazy​

5.5% / 13.3 °P
All Grain

BB60 Pale Ale​

70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 28 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 18.82 L
Sparge Water: 20.02 L
Total Water: 38.84 L
Boil Volume: 33.61 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.048

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.012
IBU (Tinseth): 30
BU/GU: 0.56
Colour: 9.5 EBC

Mash​

Temperature — 66 °C — 60 min

Malts (6.97 kg)​

5.4 kg (77.5%) — Avangard Pale Ale Malt — Grain — 5.9 EBC
500 g (7.2%) — Briess Oats, Flaked — Grain — 2.8 EBC
500 g (7.2%) — Briess Wheat White Malt — Grain — 4.5 EBC
370 g (5.3%) — Weyermann Carapils/Carafoam — Grain — 3.9 EBC
200 g (2.9%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 3.5 EBC

Hops (328 g)​

10 g (12 IBU) — Columbus (Tomahawk) 15.6% — Boil — 60 min
10 g (7 IBU) — Columbus (Tomahawk) 15.6% — Boil — 15 min
14 g (2 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Boil — 2 min
14 g (3 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Boil — 2 min
28 g (2 IBU) — Amarillo 8.4% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
28 g (2 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 75 °C
28 g (3 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
42 g — Amarillo 8.4% — Dry Hop — 12 days
42 g — Mosaic 12% — Dry Hop — 12 days
28 g — Amarillo 8.4% — Dry Hop — 8 days
28 g — Mosaic 12% — Dry Hop — 8 days
28 g — Amarillo 8.4% — Dry Hop — 4 days
28 g — Mosaic 12% — Dry Hop — 4 days

Hopstand at 71.7 °C

Miscs​

7 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
3 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
7.45 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
3.19 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge

Yeast​

1 pkg — Lallemand (LalBrew) Verdant IPA 77%

Fermentation​

Primary — 18 °C — 5 days
DH Biotransformation — 20 °C — 2 days
Yeast Dump — 17 °C — 2 days
Dry Hop 2 temp free rise — 17 °C — 4 days
Dry Hop 3 — 20 °C — 2 days
Dump DH @finish — 2 °C — 2 days
Carbonation — 2 °C — 1 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+
140Mg2+
0Na+
8Cl-
183SO42-
90HCO3-
16

 

[AlexKay]

Hops taste very harsh (ever eat a pellet straight? Don’t.) A lot of these harsh flavors are insoluble compounds that drop out over time, or attach to proteins or yeast and drip out then. Give the beer two weeks in the fermenter and two more in the keg and only worry if it’s harsh at that point.

 

[Alexholsch]

Problem is im a nano brewpub. waiting 1 month for these compounds to drop out is a bit inefficient/expensive.

Hops taste very harsh (ever eat a pellet straight? Don’t.) A lot of these harsh flavors are insoluble compounds that drop out over time, or attach to proteins or yeast and drip out then. Give the beer two weeks in the fermenter and two more in the keg and only worry if it’s harsh at that point.

 

[Alexholsch]

I was not having this problem before so it puzzles me a bit

 

[AlexKay]

I don’t know why this would be something new. Has the recipe stayed exactly the same? If time isn’t a solution, it might be worth trying LUPOMAX hops or hop extracts to try to cut down on vegetal matter and thus polyphenols. This is the situation they’re made for. But I don’t have direct experience. Wishing you luck!

 

[doug293cz]

I was not having this problem before so it puzzles me a bit

Have you thoroughly cleaned all of your equipment, including disassembling valves and threaded fittings to get at the crud that escapes CIP? There was a Brulosophy post where crud build up in a valve caused similar problems, when the rest of the equipment was clean.

Brew on

 

[Dland]

Hey guys so my last two brews, currently fermenting, taste spicy/peppery and very harsh. Ive been told this will likely clear out specially with longer conditioning times. I would like to avoid it all together and understand why this is actually happening; my guess, some kind of hop compound. Maybe my liquor? Anyway here are the recipes for both beers. Any help is appreciated!

IPA
6.4% / 15 °P
All Grain

BB60 Pale Ale​

70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 28 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 21.52 L
Sparge Water: 18.12 L
Total Water: 39.64 L
Boil Volume: 33.61 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.055

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.061
Final Gravity: 1.012
IBU (Tinseth): 60
BU/GU: 0.99
Colour: 14.6 EBC

Mash​

Temperature — 66 °C — 60 min

Malts (7.97 kg)​

7.2 kg (90.3%) — Avangard Pale Ale Malt — Grain — 5.9 EBC
400 g (5%) — Briess American Honey Malt — Grain — 65 EBC
200 g (2.5%) — Weyermann Carapils/Carafoam — Grain — 3.9 EBC
170 g (2.1%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 3.5 EBC

Hops (381 g)​

26 g (23 IBU) — Simcoe 12.7% — Boil — 60 min
5 g (5 IBU) — Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) 15.5% — Boil — 50 min
25 g (9 IBU) — Cascade 6.7% — Boil — 30 min
28 g (7 IBU) — Cascade 6.7% — Boil — 15 min
28 g (10 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Boil — 15 min
37 g (2 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Boil — 0 min
37 g (3 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Boil — 0 min
56 g — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — 6 days
56 g — Centennial 10% — Dry Hop — 6 days
28 g — Simcoe 13% — Dry Hop — 6 days
20 g — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — 3 days
20 g — Centennial 10% — Dry Hop — 3 days
15 g — Simcoe 13% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Hopstand at 70 °C

Miscs​

3.055 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
10.182 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
1.591 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
5.307 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge

Yeast​

1.3 pkg — Fermentis US-05 Safale American 81%

Fermentation​

Primary — 20 °C — 5 days
Diacetyl/Flocc — 22 °C — 3 days
Dump yeast/dry hop — 18 °C — 1.5 days
Dry hop "free" rise — 20.5 °C — 3 days
Gelatin/Biofine — 0 °C — 2.5 days
FV/Keg — 5 °C — 2 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+
118Mg2+
0Na+
8Cl-
58SO42-
208HCO3-
16

Hazy​

5.5% / 13.3 °P
All Grain

BB60 Pale Ale​

70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 28 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 18.82 L
Sparge Water: 20.02 L
Total Water: 38.84 L
Boil Volume: 33.61 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.048

Vitals​

Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.012
IBU (Tinseth): 30
BU/GU: 0.56
Colour: 9.5 EBC

Mash​

Temperature — 66 °C — 60 min

Malts (6.97 kg)​

5.4 kg (77.5%) — Avangard Pale Ale Malt — Grain — 5.9 EBC
500 g (7.2%) — Briess Oats, Flaked — Grain — 2.8 EBC
500 g (7.2%) — Briess Wheat White Malt — Grain — 4.5 EBC
370 g (5.3%) — Weyermann Carapils/Carafoam — Grain — 3.9 EBC
200 g (2.9%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 3.5 EBC

Hops (328 g)​

10 g (12 IBU) — Columbus (Tomahawk) 15.6% — Boil — 60 min
10 g (7 IBU) — Columbus (Tomahawk) 15.6% — Boil — 15 min
14 g (2 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Boil — 2 min
14 g (3 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Boil — 2 min
28 g (2 IBU) — Amarillo 8.4% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
28 g (2 IBU) — Centennial 9.1% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 75 °C
28 g (3 IBU) — Simcoe 13% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand
42 g — Amarillo 8.4% — Dry Hop — 12 days
42 g — Mosaic 12% — Dry Hop — 12 days
28 g — Amarillo 8.4% — Dry Hop — 8 days
28 g — Mosaic 12% — Dry Hop — 8 days
28 g — Amarillo 8.4% — Dry Hop — 4 days
28 g — Mosaic 12% — Dry Hop — 4 days

Hopstand at 71.7 °C

Miscs​

7 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
3 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
7.45 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Sparge
3.19 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Sparge

Yeast​

1 pkg — Lallemand (LalBrew) Verdant IPA 77%

Fermentation​

Primary — 18 °C — 5 days
DH Biotransformation — 20 °C — 2 days
Yeast Dump — 17 °C — 2 days
Dry Hop 2 temp free rise — 17 °C — 4 days
Dry Hop 3 — 20 °C — 2 days
Dump DH @finish — 2 °C — 2 days
Carbonation — 2 °C — 1 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Water Profile​

Ca2+
140Mg2+
0Na+
8Cl-
183SO42-
90HCO3-
16

That is a pretty complicated brew profile. While nothing stands out as particularity off, with all those desperate inputs in recipe, makes any problems harder to diagnose. Could even come down to mislabeled or weighed ingredient at some point,

I understand the flow though implications, something that takes a little longer before being served might hurt cash flow. Maybe get an appropriate sized bright tank, let it age and maybe have something special...those spicy, harsh pepper flavors often go in a nice direction with time.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck with your endeavor.

 

[Kickass]

You’re saying after boil and before fermentation, you’re experiencing these flavors? I HATE un-fermented beer, yet I LOVE beer. I haven’t taken even the tinniest sip of wort in probably 15 years, it provides no feedback whatsoever of the final product.

How’s your fermented beer taste?

 

[Alexholsch]

You’re saying after boil and before fermentation, you’re experiencing these flavors? I HATE un-fermented beer, yet I LOVE beer. I haven’t taken even the tinniest sip of wort in probably 15 years, it provides no feedback whatsoever of the final product.

How’s your fermented beer taste?

thats insane jajajaja i taste my wort in every step almost. But im glad to hear it makes no difference!

 

[Alexholsch]

That is a pretty complicated brew profile. While nothing stands out as particularity off, with all those desperate inputs in recipe, makes any problems harder to diagnose. Could even come down to mislabeled or weighed ingredient at some point,

I understand the flow though implications, something that takes a little longer before being served might hurt cash flow. Maybe get an appropriate sized bright tank, let it age and maybe have something special...those spicy, harsh pepper flavors often go in a nice direction with time.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck with your endeavor.

could you elaborate on why its a complicated brew profile? Would love to uncomplicate it, the simpler the better.

 

[Alexholsch]

Have you thoroughly cleaned all of your equipment, including disassembling valves and threaded fittings to get at the crud that escapes CIP? There was a Brulosophy post where crud build up in a valve caused similar problems, when the rest of the equipment was clean.

Brew on

im getting on this tomorrow. i have not disasembled my threaded fittings in like 20 brews

 

[Dland]

could you elaborate on why its a complicated brew profile? Would love to uncomplicate it, the simpler the better.

Hop schedule seems like a lot of work. Have a little faith in the hops, they'll do fine w/o micro management.

Most I ever did was one hop on first wort or start of boil, one or two more additions during boil, halfway though and maybe another at 5-10 min before end of boil. Then a post whirlpool hop step after speed cooled to around 160F. That is four additions, four hops varieties max. Any dry hop, if you're into that, just pick one.

Other elements of recipe probably could be simplified, but the hops really stood out.

I'll only add that I'm sure any beer you make with that level of attention is likely to be good.

The more inputs, the more variables, and on all parts of recipe, including the water profile, it is good to go by taste and not just some on line formula. All these inputs vary in quality, and very few of us have capacity to test them.

The only way I work it out is trial & error, sometimes doing same batch with only one or two variables, often several times. Add some record keeping, & get to repeatable results.

Not meant as some big critique, I only replied since you asked. Brew on !

 

[Kickass]

thats insane jajajaja i taste my wort in every step almost. But im glad to hear it makes no difference!

My point here is that you might be on a fool’s errand, tying to eliminate a problem that doesn’t exist. The focus should be on what the final product tastes like, not sweet wort immediately following the boil.

What does your final product taste like?

 

[Alexholsch]

Hop schedule seems like a lot of work. Have a little faith in the hops, they'll do fine w/o micro management.

Most I ever did was one hop on first wort or start of boil, one or two more additions during boil, halfway though and maybe another at 5-10 min before end of boil. Then a post whirlpool hop step after speed cooled to around 160F. That is four additions, four hops varieties max. Any dry hop, if you're into that, just pick one.

Other elements of recipe probably could be simplified, but the hops really stood out.

I'll only add that I'm sure any beer you make with that level of attention is likely to be good.

The more inputs, the more variables, and on all parts of recipe, including the water profile, it is good to go by taste and not just some on line formula. All these inputs vary in quality, and very few of us have capacity to test them.

The only way I work it out is trial & error, sometimes doing same batch with only one or two variables, often several times. Add some record keeping, & get to repeatable results.

Not meant as some big critique, I only replied since you asked. Brew on !

So i tried the all in one dry hop addition on an IPA and im having trouble getting it to clear now. I just did a thread on it. IPA trouble getting dry hops to settle, even with gelatin and cold crash

 

[Alexholsch]

My point here is that you might be on a fool’s errand, tying to eliminate a problem that doesn’t exist. The focus should be on what the final product tastes like, not sweet wort immediately following the boil.

What does your final product taste like?

jajajaja i do tend to get overly paranoid with my beers.