Stc-1000+

[doug293cz]

@stoneBriar: This is what I suggest. Try to use a heater with the minimal required wattage to do the job. Try to insulate the probe better. Bump up the hysteresis. Increase heating and cooling delay.

I don't think you want to insulate the probe more, but rather less. The issue is the lag time between the wort temperature and the chamber temperature, due to the high thermal mass of the wort. With a temp probe taped to the side of a fermenter, you are actually measuring a weighted average of the wort temperature and the chamber temperature. And the more insulated the probe the more weight is given to the wort temperature and the less to the chamber temperature. What you want in order to reduce the over and under shoot, is to give more weight to the chamber temperature, and less to the wort. This will cause the compressor to shut off earlier during cooling, because the chamber temperature cools faster than the wort. Likewise on heating, the heater will shut off sooner. The earlier shut off is what you want in order to reduce the over and under shooting. So, to give more weight to the chamber temp, and less to the wort temp, you want to use less insulation on the temp probe.

Anyone see any holes in this rationale?

Brew on

 

[alphaomega]

@doug293cz: You are so right. And that was a very concise and well phrased explanation as well. No holes there.
Just to try to save face, I said "insulate the probe better". Better in this case being less

 

[wilconrad]

Agree with Alpha and Doug, your old t-shirt is doing too good a job of insulating the probe. Dial down the insulation, increase hysteresis and tweak delay, and you should get better performance. FYI, I use a small styrofoam block to insulate the probe against the carboy w/ hysteresis set at .5deg and don't experience the "ping-pong" problem.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434334780.047655.jpg

 

[Firewalker11]

I would bet this has been asked before but I cant find the answer with the search function:

Are the flashed units for sale by anybody? I do not want to flash my unit but am willing to buy one already flashed with Mats firmware.

 

[ptrack]

A lot of people have picked them up from here:

http://www.boostbysmith.com/brewindex.html

I think they have the bare unit with the STC-1000+ firmware flashed for $30. They also carry a bunch of kits that include everything you need to put together a full system.

 

[Firewalker11]

Bingo! That was what I link looking for. Thanks ptrack!

 

[jleiii]

@doug293cz: You are so right. And that was a very concise and well phrased explanation as well. No holes there.
Just to try to save face, I said "insulate the probe better". Better in this case being less

Nice save!


I went through a similar discussion (pre STC1000+) in another thread a while back and got pretty beat up over it with the key point, and justification, being "the probe must be in the wort". I too was concerned about the large swings in chamber temperature, and overshoot. The key to backing up this point is that the chamber thermal mass is trivial compared to the wort thermal mass. Unless you way overheat it that would hold true.

I made the point that if you keep the chamber at temp, the wort will follow, except during active fermentation of course, so not fully useful. I relented and insulated my probes very well, and that worked well but only after I reduced my heat source from 125 watts to 24 watts by disconnecting the heater and letting the 24 watt fan do the heating. This worked great even when ambient was 55 (basement in winter). At that time I only heated OR cooled so it was a little different. I was cooling/lagering separately at the time.

I am working on an overhaul of my heating/cooling process over the next few weeks to take full advantage of the STC-1000+ profiles for lagering especially. I have a glycol chiller (formerly a dehumidifier), and will be using Heat Tape from Reptile Basics (tried to link, but their site has an SQL error right now....). I'm still pondering the probe placement for the new lagering cooling jackets. I'll followup on this once I have what everyone likes to see - pictures, but will post the build in another thread of mine. There will no longer be any fans in the design, only heat tape and glycol (aka pond) pumps run from the STC-1000+.

 

[ClunkClunk]

I know this isn't a reliable way to the good boards but I just ordered two from Amazon and they were both A400_P boards v1.1. I went into it needing one that was flashable for a fermentation fridge and one that could just hold low temps for a keezer build. I figured I would hopefully get one that was flashable but somehow got lucky I guess. These were ordered last Thursday (June 4th) in the DC/Balt area and delivered from the Sterling, VA warehouse if that makes any difference. I ordered one from each of the following listings:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008KVCPH2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KA4Y2P0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01

Thanks! I purchased from the seller "City Digital" on June 10th and received a A400_P unit (which should be flashable, but I've not done it yet).

This brings me up to 4 flashable units - covers my 3 fermentation mini fridges/freezer plus a spare for future use!

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks! I purchased from the seller "City Digital" on June 10th and received a A400_P unit (which should be flashable, but I've not done it yet).

This brings me up to 4 flashable units - covers my 3 fermentation mini fridges/freezer plus a spare for future use!

Ive picked up 6 now myself and have 4 of them running in my gycol chiller/ band heater fermenter controller they work well though I'll admit Ive only used one of them so far. and im still recording the yeast behavior so I know what to setup my profiles for.

 

[jleiii]

I feel your pain.
Or is it pleasure?

 

[adam01]

The link from willconrad
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...004466302.html

Says "Sorry, this item is no longer available!"

What did you guys do ?

 

[alphaomega]

The link from willconrad
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...004466302.html

Says "Sorry, this item is no longer available!"

What did you guys do ?

Mebbe this one?

 

[adam01]

Okay, the supplier refilled - it now shows inventory available.

 

[Mirilis]

i tried skimming through the 200 pages to find this but im just gonna stick it down here because im tired of searching.

On the programs.. say i have it hold 50 for 3 days, then i want it to ramp down to 40 in 10 days.. does it automatically only drop 1 degree per day, or does it just let the fridge run till it hits 40 and then hold it till the 10 days are up?

 

[smithabusa]

i tried skimming through the 200 pages to find this but im just gonna stick it down here because im tired of searching.

On the programs.. say i have it hold 50 for 3 days, then i want it to ramp down to 40 in 10 days.. does it automatically only drop 1 degree per day, or does it just let the fridge run till it hits 40 and then hold it till the 10 days are up?

there is a ramping feature that can be turned on and off, by default its usually off. You would want to turn the ramp feature on.

 

[ClunkClunk]

On the programs.. say i have it hold 50 for 3 days, then i want it to ramp down to 40 in 10 days.. does it automatically only drop 1 degree per day, or does it just let the fridge run till it hits 40 and then hold it till the 10 days are up?

With ramping turned on it'll go from 50 to 40 progressively over the 10 day period (so 1 degree per day, 1/24th a degree per hour - not sure what resolution STC-1000+ works at, but I believe it's 0.1 degrees).

With ramping turned off, it'll simply drop from 50 to 40 degrees when the setpoint is reached.

The profile editor is really useful to visualize what's happening.

 

[ptrack]

I believe it doesn't something like calculate 60 discrete steps between the starting point and ending point. It then attempts to hit all of those assuming they fit the time and temp resolution at which the firmware is updating the set point.

 

[Mirilis]

cool.. ill have to play with it.. i have three of these and an Uno... ill have to rip mine apart and see if they have the right chipset.. my luck they dont.

 

[Firewalker11]

Just got mine from Greg and will install it when I get home. Can't wait to see the display in Fahrenheit!

 

[augiedoggy]

On a Norwegian brewers forum, they've found that ebay seller "gadgetinfinite" sells the correct version, time and again. I've recently bought from that seller. Got the correct version.

http://stores.ebay.com/gadgetinfinite?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

just an fyi I ordered one from this seller and it came friday, It is the correct version... still waiting on the ones I ordered from aliexpress...

 

[Firewalker11]

Quick question: Does anybody have a quick cheat sheet for a standard ale fermentation for the 1000+ handy?

 

[alphaomega]

Quick question: Does anybody have a quick cheat sheet for a standard ale fermentation for the 1000+ handy?

You could have a look here
http://brulosophy.com/2014/07/23/the-black-box-is-beyond-cool-and-hot/

 

[Firewalker11]

Perfect! I like the ale program as is writh no changes.

Thanks alphaomega.

 

[uatuba]

I've put in my steps for a Lager. Is there any way to see what step/hour is currently running? I'm using version 1.03...

 

[alphaomega]

I've put in my steps for a Lager. Is there any way to see what step/hour is currently running? I'm using version 1.03...

Press and hold down button, it will loop through displaying current running profile, step and duration.

 

[Firewalker11]

Looking good, working good but I cant find how to get to thermostat mode. I am just wanting to hold the temp at 65° and its 75° right now, I don't need to ramp but I do want a 10 minute cooling/heating delay. How would I program this without using a profile and just run the thermostat?

Search did no good, it just brought me back this thread to one of my posts... sigh.

 

[smithabusa]

Looking good, working good but I cant find how to get to thermostat mode. I am just wanting to hold the temp at 65° and its 75° right now, I don't need to ramp but I do want a 10 minute cooling/heating delay. How would I program this without using a profile and just run the thermostat?

Search did no good, it just brought me back this thread to one of my posts... sigh.

I made you a video, it's uploading now

 

[smithabusa]

Looking good, working good but I cant find how to get to thermostat mode. I am just wanting to hold the temp at 65° and its 75° right now, I don't need to ramp but I do want a 10 minute cooling/heating delay. How would I program this without using a profile and just run the thermostat?

Search did no good, it just brought me back this thread to one of my posts... sigh.

Here you go @firewalker11

Stc thermostat mode:
https://youtu.be/-UG8pAOizFI

 

[Firewalker11]

Perfect! Works like a charm, its cooling as we speak.

One more question, what is being displayed when you push the power button? I see the temp but what is the other number when you press it again?

 

[smithabusa]

Perfect! Works like a charm, its cooling as we speak.

One more question, what is being displayed when you push the power button? I see the temp but what is the other number when you press it again?

Temperature sensor number 2 but if you don't have one connected that signal just drift all over the place

 

[Firewalker11]

Gotcha, thanks for answering my silly questions.

 

[Oggie]

Thanks for all your hard work on the STC, Alphaomega, I have my mini all programmed up and waiting for my STCs to arrive so I can program them. I want to leave the header pins and the mini connected so I can upload profiles as and when needed.
One thing I would like to try and wonder if anyone else has tried is having a battery backup/clock so if there is a power cut the STC knows where it is up to (or are you gona tell me it already does that).
Either a board that can piggyback to the stc on the right pins, maybe a 9v battery that monitors the 5v line and if it drops below kicks in?
We get the odd short power dropout occasionally in winter so could be a bummer if you have to reprogram from a few days in etc or don't know it's gone out.

Anyway I just had to say thanks for a fantastic project.

 

[ptrack]

Your easiest solution for that might be to get an UPS like you would for a computer. As long as your power issues don't last for long the ups should be able to run the stc-1000 and the fridge for some time. That would probably make for the quickest and easiest solution (but maybe not the cheapest).

 

[Pkrd]

One thing I would like to try and wonder if anyone else has tried is having a battery backup/clock so if there is a power cut the STC knows where it is up to (or are you gona tell me it already does that

It already does that.

Every hour, current duration, dh (and if next step is reached, also current step, St) is updated with new value(s). That means in case of a power outage, STC-1000+ will pick up (to within the hour) from where it left off.
https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p/blob/master/usermanual/README.md

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Thanks for all your hard work on the STC, Alphaomega, I have my mini all programmed up and waiting for my STCs to arrive so I can program them. I want to leave the header pins and the mini connected so I can upload profiles as and when needed.
One thing I would like to try and wonder if anyone else has tried is having a battery backup/clock so if there is a power cut the STC knows where it is up to (or are you gona tell me it already does that).
Either a board that can piggyback to the stc on the right pins, maybe a 9v battery that monitors the 5v line and if it drops below kicks in?
We get the odd short power dropout occasionally in winter so could be a bummer if you have to reprogram from a few days in etc or don't know it's gone out.

Anyway I just had to say thanks for a fantastic project.

I was told that leaving the pro mini and stc connected is a bad idea.something to do with with the power.

 

[Oggie]

Ok BigDaddy, I see now why everyone just leaves the header leads accessible and not the board attached.....thanks.
And sounds like the odd power outage won't be a problem.
I have a couple of STCs ordered from the supplier Alpha recommended, however I have a couple of units here that have 8S003f3P6 chips and the headers are on the board. Do you think if I try and track the correct pins, this would accept the code if I put header pins on it?
I know it's not worth changing software for but is the chip compatible?
Here is photos of the boards.

 

[alphaomega]

Do you think if I try and track the correct pins, this would accept the code if I put header pins on it?

No.

 

[Oggie]

No.

You didn't have to beat around the bush, a simple 0 would have been more efficient.
I'll just have to wait on the slow boat from China. - Thanks

 

[smithabusa]

You didn't have to beat around the bush, a simple 0 would have been more efficient.
I'll just have to wait on the slow boat from China. - Thanks

I can have a controller to you this week if in a hurry I have them in stock in Michigan

 

[Oggie]

I can have a controller to you this week if in a hurry I have them in stock in Michigan

Thanks for the offer, I think I may have contacted you recently(Via a website selling flashed units, unless I am mistaken?), I am in New Zealand and we have 230v so I don't think it was an option.
Interestingly the unit in the photo above is an STC1000 that is 110-240v, so hopefully they make the flashable unit in the 230/40 volt flavor.
Nice looking unit you have, by the way. I hope to 3d print my housing for it.