Starting a brewery

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couchsending said:
At the moment 4bbl/week out the door in draft, cans, growlers. No distro.

Yes we were busy for the first two weeks and then business slowed but we’ve had a bunch of great press since then and business has picked back up. Last two days were our busiest days so far and most days before that were better than the same day the week before.

Based on the data I was able to gather from other ski town breweries October will be by far our slowest month of the year, followed by May, then September. Tourist season doesn’t really start here until December with March being the busiest month most likely. And it’s not just tourists it’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th home owners that come for months at a time. Town can go from 8,000 to easily 100,000 on a busy weekend. Winter is busier than summer but lately, not by much. It’s as dead as dead gets in the town right now.

We’re closed Monday/Tuesday. Open 4-8 or 9 W-Friday. 11-9 sat, 11-6 Sunday. Those hours will probably change here and there depending on the seasons.

We have no Covid restrictions at all, other than we have a pretty small space. Max capacity is 49 but we only have 26 seats. Were trying to keep the capacity around 30 and so far so good. We’ve intentionally been keeping the promotions to word of mouth and just posting stuff on the Gram but never promoting it.
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Congratulations! It sounds like you are off to a great start. Is 10 where you are stopping tap wise or just building your way up as you go?
 
I second what Jaybird said. You don't know what you don't know, and that stuff is going to hold up everything/ cost more money. Every brewery owner I've ever talked to cited the "triple your time for startup and money investment" and it was absolutely true in our case as well.
 
soccerdad said:
In my opinion a one barrel system can effectively supply a brew pub, but not a brewery that focuses on mostly beer and shipping beer.
But I also think the world needs more brew pubs and fewer micro breweries. I have had some crappy micro brews. Once was enough. Won't get it again. But places that make both good food and good beer will earn my return business. And my recommendation.
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1bbl is just 2 kegs. Maybe ok, for lower sellers, but even a decently busy brewpub can kick double that over the weekend for their flagships
 
I am still in the planning stages, but a long-term pizza-pub around the corner has a 7 barrel system, and all of their pours are from the brite/serving tanks. I am looking at 7BBL because it can still do 3.5BBL without complications for experimental or seasonal brews. I expect to use kegs, though.
 
JAReeves said:
I am still in the planning stages, but a long-term pizza-pub around the corner has a 7 barrel system, and all of their pours are from the brite/serving tanks. I am looking at 7BBL because it can still do 3.5BBL without complications for experimental or seasonal brews. I expect to use kegs, though.
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Several years ago my wife and I wanted to do the same with a brew pub. We consulted a equipment vendor who told us that they do not recommend anything less than a 7 bbl system. They had several used 2 and 3 bbl system that they took on trade-in. That was back in 2011, I think the climate has changed and there is more interest in boutique beers made by nano breweries. However, the thought of brewing 3 times a week to keep the lights on certainly kills my passion. Good luck! BTW- Make a detailed business plan.
 
If you aren't already, join up on probrewer.com. It's an excellent resource for new and used equipment, and hundreds of people who were in your shoes at one point or another. Also, if all this stuff hasn't scared you off, research the people you are getting your equipment from. I got totally boned when I bought my equipment, because the "American" reseller was really Canadian. I had no legal recourse to get my money back, or deliver on the agreed upon equipment. Emptor caveat, big time!
 
I run two 2bbl systems with 3 "4bbl" fermenters. That way I can double batch into 1, or half batch specialty beers. I've outgrown them in 1 year. Taking delivery of two 8bbl Fermenters any day now. No distribution, just out of my taps and a couple of farmer's markets (woohoo NY Farm Brewery License!). Also, did away with the HLT's with two high end commercial instant tankless hot water heaters run in series, so my old HLT's are extra kettles. All direct fire. My linchpin is my mash tuns, but I will make do until I can upgrade again...
 
lyonsmith said:
I run two 2bbl systems with 3 "4bbl" fermenters. That way I can double batch into 1, or half batch specialty beers. I've outgrown them in 1 year. Taking delivery of two 8bbl Fermenters any day now. No distribution, just out of my taps and a couple of farmer's markets (woohoo NY Farm Brewery License!). Also, did away with the HLT's with two high end commercial instant tankless hot water heaters run in series, so my old HLT's are extra kettles. All direct fire. My linchpin is my mash tuns, but I will make do until I can upgrade again...
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Tankless heaters instead of a HLT? electrical no doubt? Are those 8bbls jacketed? Is moving up to a glycol system really costly? Really excited for you.

Rick
 
rhorwitz said:
Tankless heaters instead of a HLT? electrical no doubt? Are those 8bbls jacketed? Is moving up to a glycol system really costly? Really excited for you.

Rick
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Thanks!

I've been running jacketed tanks from the start. Temperature control is key, and you will never truly know the joy of jacketed tanks until you set your ETC to 68 degrees and go home for the day after brewing knowing that you will walk in in the morning to exactly that.
My glycol system is a Homebrewed setup of a long draw power pack glycol system. The double pump setup. I'm actually going to be chopping it up and trying a bigger glycol bath (from about 17-20 gallons to 50, same submerged refrigerant coils with individual small sump pumps to push to each tank. I've tried rigging etcs to fire solenoid valves and pumps. Not being an electrical engineer, and getting into needing relays... Nope. No thanks.
My tankless water heaters are LP. Much cheaper than my electric here. Also my burners (four 100000 btu burners) run LP, heat for the building and the tasting room hot water tank.
 
lyonsmith said:
Also, did away with the HLT's with two high end commercial instant tankless hot water heaters run in series, so my old HLT's are extra kettles.
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I would assume you are carbon filtering city water before the instant water heaters or something more complex like pumping from a RO CLT. What temp can you achieve with inline water heaters lets say in winter with cold ground water? Do they have a maximum setting or did you find a work around? Thanks.
 
By using them in series, I can get the water to high 170s with a strong enough flow that I can rinse out my fermenters through the cip spray ball. They are set for 180, but I don't achieve that. But, I don't need to either.
 
They are really designed for hotels or bigger commercial situations. It was a no brainer for me because my direct fire HLT's took nearly 2 hours to bring the water to mash temp in the morning. Now I can mash in in the time it takes me to Mill.

I don't treat my water at all. I've had no problems with the water at my location.
 
"They are really designed for hotels or bigger commercial situations."

Can you post brand and model as I would like to look into these. Thanks. Are they for your whole building including sinks and everything or just for the brewery operations?

Edit- I guess it would be a risk of scalding someone's hands at the bathroom sink unless they had a faucet that could be set like a shower does with the max temp blend valve. I would like to by pass the regular water heater if possible and the would also free up my 100 gallon HLT as a secondary brew kettle. I can set a timer so no big deal if I wanted to set the night before and it is ready to go when I want it. Just thinking forward for an expansion like you have done. I've got a 50 gallon pot with mesh basket that works for a MT that could run side by side double herms with my 100 gallon MT if I get to your situation at some point.
 
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superiorsat said:
Can you post brand and model as I would like to look into these. Thanks. Are they for your whole building including sinks and everything or just for the brewery operations?
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They are Navien and I think the model is NPE-180S. I will try to remember to check when I get there today.

I only use those for my brewery water and my utility sink and keg washer. The tasting room has its own tank style water heater. These are set far too hot to use in the tasting room, and I don't want my folks to scald themselves. Also, in the brewery any water outlet that hooks up to them have signage that the water is a dangerous temperature. Safety first, kids!
 
lyonsmith said:
I run two 2bbl systems with 3 "4bbl" fermenters. That way I can double batch into 1, or half batch specialty beers. I've outgrown them in 1 year. Taking delivery of two 8bbl Fermenters any day now. No distribution, just out of my taps and a couple of farmer's markets (woohoo NY Farm Brewery License!). Also, did away with the HLT's with two high end commercial instant tankless hot water heaters run in series, so my old HLT's are extra kettles. All direct fire. My linchpin is my mash tuns, but I will make do until I can upgrade again...
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You're doing 8bbl DIRECT FIRE???!?!?!?!
 
lyonsmith said:
They are Navien and I think the model is NPE-180S. I will try to remember to check when I get there today.

I only use those for my brewery water and my utility sink and keg washer. The tasting room has its own tank style water heater. These are set far too hot to use in the tasting room, and I don't want my folks to scald themselves. Also, in the brewery any water outlet that hooks up to them have signage that the water is a dangerous temperature. Safety first, kids!
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I have that brand in my house and the highest it goes is 150⁰. Home and commercial are different I suppose
 
soccerdad said:
In my opinion a one barrel system can effectively supply a brew pub, but not a brewery that focuses on mostly beer and shipping beer.
But I also think the world needs more brew pubs and fewer micro breweries. I have had some crappy micro brews. Once was enough. Won't get it again. But places that make both good food and good beer will earn my return business. And my recommendation.
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This was my exact thought. We have a local brewpub started by my neighbors. They started small with a 1 bbl system. They were brewing all the time. They grew it into a larger and much nicer brewpub. But they are still a brewpub. They do not bottle or can. They sell growlers for takeout. Despite the growth, they all still have their day jobs doing IT or whatever.

A mistake people make is they think a brewpub is a brewery with a restaurant attached. Its actually the other way around. A brewpub is a restaurant with a brewery attached. You need good food and a good menu. People will come for the food and you will sell beer.
 
bwible said:
Thats the old joke with bowling alleys too.
How do you make $1 million with a bowling alley? Start with $10 million.
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Yep, pretty much any hobby that you try to turn into a business. But it's not wrong for all that. Look around and see how many breweries are really making money - I don't have actual data, but |I can see the ones that are or have expanded, and those that are standing pat or cutting back. THe expanders I can probably count on one hand, and the cutters are far more prevalent. And |I don't even mean everyhting happenning with "all this" the past year and a half, but things seemed to be slowing a bit even before that.
 
jrgtr42 said:
Yep, pretty much any hobby that you try to turn into a business. But it's not wrong for all that. Look around and see how many breweries are really making money - I don't have actual data, but |I can see the ones that are or have expanded, and those that are standing pat or cutting back. THe expanders I can probably count on one hand, and the cutters are far more prevalent. And |I don't even mean everyhting happenning with "all this" the past year and a half, but things seemed to be slowing a bit even before that.
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Hey, just make sure you have a good solid seltzer recipe, you'll be fine... 🤮🤮🤮😉
 
couchsending said:
She’s building the first few labels but I’ll be doing the rest of them as well as building the website, maintaining social media, etc.

Yeah there’s a ton that goes into it. I knew it was going to be a lot of work but there’s just so much more,
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dude, you're gonna kill yourself. farm that **** out. find a young'un and have them do it, with your supervision. since you're not distributing you wont get seen in the stores or bars, so unless you're on major thoroughfare or other place where there's tons of foot traffic, you'll need to pull folks in, i.e. advertising. which is now really just social media. i would seriously advise you let someone who grew up in a digital world handle the job. its a whole other mindset. its literally a generational difference. there's a reason they're attached to their phones 24/7.....

social media managers. dont know what labor is like out there, but instead of an employee you can also hire a service that does it. responds to all the media posts individually, schedules new posts, coordinates when ads go out, etc. its worth it.
 
I'm still in the conceptual stage for opening a brewery. I keep flipping between starting with a 1bbl system and going with either a 3.5bbl or 5bbl system from the start. I could use my current setup for recipe formulation/test batches if I did go with the larger systems from the start. I could go larger fermenters from the start as well. I think a lot of the decisions will actually get solidified as I get closer to being able to do this.

I've already picked up some of the hardware that can be used. New pro level malt mill (arrived last week) and plate chiller. :D

I'm hoping I can take the first step towards going pro this year. I think I'll still be another year or two away (after that) from opening up. Or getting closer to opening at least. Luckily, NH is one of the better states (from what I'm seeing) for doing this. No stupid expensive licenses needed.
 
Golddiggie said:
I'm hoping I can take the first step towards going pro this year. I think I'll still be another year or two away (after that) from opening up. Or getting closer to opening at least. Luckily, NH is one of the better states (from what I'm seeing) for doing this. No stupid expensive licenses needed.
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Sounds like time is on your side. If you have the time and look for deals daily ( Marketplace, Craigslist, Probrewer) on used equipment
( sometimes new and unused) you can save insane cashola! Luckily I don't have to pay for my storage units full of equipment since my friend own's the joint. After 7 years of collecting or building equipment my second garage, part of the basement, a huge storage unit and a medium size storage unit are at full capacity. Had just enough room to wedge a 5 BBL unitank in on Saturday to go with the other tanks. Good thing I take possession of my building in late April or May because I'm out of room.
 
More space is one of the reasons I'll be looking for my own house this year. I'm running out of room here. Even going through and tossing out stuff. At most I'm maintaining working room. I want to be able to have my brewing gear setup AND be able to do other projects too. Right now, my media blaster cabinet is blocked by the brew stand. I also want to have a sink in the area for cleanup so I don't need to go into the driveway for cleaning out the MT and BK. Not to mention the conicals. So probably a floor drain too. Good thing I never plan to move again after the coming move.
 
SanPancho said:
dude, you're gonna kill yourself. farm that **** out. find a young'un and have them do it, with your supervision. since you're not distributing you wont get seen in the stores or bars, so unless you're on major thoroughfare or other place where there's tons of foot traffic, you'll need to pull folks in, i.e. advertising. which is now really just social media. i would seriously advise you let someone who grew up in a digital world handle the job. its a whole other mindset. its literally a generational difference. there's a reason they're attached to their phones 24/7.....

social media managers. dont know what labor is like out there, but instead of an employee you can also hire a service that does it. responds to all the media posts individually, schedules new posts, coordinates when ads go out, etc. its worth it.
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Sadly this is the mistake so many breweries/brands make… it is so painfully obvious when you outsource social media.

I very much understand the space and have a degree in marketing. In order for this to be truly authentic it has to be 100% my voice and creative identity. At our size outsourcing this would be the biggest waste of money and honestly even if we did what we could get for what we could afford would be a joke.
 
Tried to hire someone to build website for my small business, in fact, we tried a few. I have a decent website now that conveys what I want to say, nothing fancy, done "in house" & attracts the type of customers I want to deal with.
 
couchsending said:
Sadly this is the mistake so many breweries/brands make… it is so painfully obvious when you outsource social media.

I very much understand the space and have a degree in marketing. In order for this to be truly authentic it has to be 100% my voice and creative identity. At our size outsourcing this would be the biggest waste of money and honestly even if we did what we could get for what we could afford would be a joke.
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bit surprising you fail to make the distinction that is important here. social media manager ≠ brand manager. and seems you missed in the original post where i said "under your supervision".

if you studied "marketing" then you should be familiar with the different layers of work. an old ex girlfriend was creative director with a So-Cool-It-Hurts west coast firm, she did some of the first work for various tech startups who are now unicorns. she DIRECTED it all. this is what i'd see (while using her office expense account to eat lunch and catch decent wifi circa 2006ish) -

she didnt write copy. she didnt answer emails. she didnt graphic design. she didnt work the logo conceptualization. she didnt pick the music for the ads. she didnt film the tv/web spots. she didnt buy the ad time or pick the placements.

yet she chose or directed everything in the campaign ultimately. she tied everything together into her vision. she pitched it, sold it, and then got paid and won awards.

is your marketing degree necessary to answer an email about what hours you're open? to reply to a facebook post that just says "like" ? a yelp post from someone who's confusing you with a different brewery? the random charity from two counties away that wants a "donation" for their softball game? to respond to a bad review from someone who got a chipped pint glass but didnt actually say anything to anyone while at the brewery?

if you have enough time to do this yourself, plus ALL THE OTHER STUFF of running a BAR (yes, taproom=bar) , then bizness isnt very good. if you dont have enough time, then hopefully its because business IS GOOD, and you will need to delegate to helpers if you want to grow.

be the director. not the worker bee.

i cant speak to what labor costs in utah, but in CA bay area its realistically 20 bucks an hour for even min wage type work. at 200 a month for the help, there's no way i could get an employee to handle all these stupid little things in only 10 hours every 30 days. i still spent the time to review and approve everything for first few months, obviously. but they learn the tone quickly on interactions/responses. but the creative part? all me. because their help on the little stuff let me focus on the what i'm good at, the big stuff- being creative. if you're a pro at marketing, isnt that where your time would be best spent?
 
Business is profitable at 3 months
Highest rated brewery in our state on Untappd and we’ve made 2 beers over 5% and 1/3 of our beers have been lagers (small sample set but still)
Only 5 star reviews on google
Not dumping old beer
We get maybe 2 people a day reaching out with questions on social or email. Takes me less than 5 minutes. Handle all social and love doing it. Haven’t spent a dime on advertising and hope to never. Rather donate that money to a good cause.

We are a small business, operating within our means focused on the quality of the beer with a very slow growth strategy. Yes for sure at some point the tedious sh*t will be delegated to others internally but not until it’s deemed necessary which won’t be anytime soon. It is more important to me to be the person communicating with every possible consumer that interacts with our business whether it be behind the bar, over social, email, etc. while the brand is still in its infancy. As we grow and hire new team members for various roles I will slowly faze out of this roll. I don’t brew, that’s my partners job.
 
nice, man. congrats. you guys lucked out on timing. i predict this summer is going to be the inflection point where the covid drag finally leaves. as long as the economy doesnt freak out about inflation it looks like we'll be on the upswing. unfortunately theres alot of folks (some of us included) that lasted all the way until omicron, then watched the camel break its back over xmas and early jan. cest la vie. WTF you gonna do? the weird thing was that while the business on the street was dwindling there was a huge jump in requests for private parties and buyouts. big ones. kinda weird.

good to hear you get the big picture. i didnt realize from your post that you were open, but if you're that small then by all means be the face. you can handle it now. just dont be That Partner who carves out their little fiefdom and does a HODL. big picture.

im guessing the next logical step will be some small distribution locally? while you're out doing the sales keep an eye out for the reps for the beer distributors. chat them up. pick their brains. that part of the industry doesnt always operate the way we think it would. oddly, their goals can conflict with ours. its a different animal. (most states i've known, not sure about utah) and sometimes its more about connections and favors than bottom-dollar type decisions. some inside knowledge from those guys will help you make better informed planning decisions as you grow and move toward that phase.

.
 
Looking for brewers in my area who want to make the jump from home brewing to commercial brewing. Ideally a few people who have the knowledge, passion and drive to open a small brewery/tasting facility. Have a 3400+ sq ft open single story commercial building that I believe would be a great location for this. Currently developing the adjacent property into residential second story / commercial first floor. Downtown location on major roadway in a growing smaller community 45 min. west of Chicago. Have partners who would be interested in equity stake in any venture. Was a home brewer long ago but not interested in the operations side. Please contact me if you would like more information or have suggestions on how to find brewing partners.
 

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