Starter times?

[BrewMeister49]

What is the earliest one can make a starter? I am planning on brewing Friday (11/20) and I cannot make it tomorrow (11/19). Can I make it tonight (11/18) and pitch it Friday? It will be on a stir plate. And I am planning a 1.5L starter of Cali yeast wlp001.

 

[m00ps]

i usually let my starters for for 5-7 days before pitching

 

[mucci2k]

earlier the better. I had some yeast from a previous batch that took three days to start. How big of a beer are you making?

 

[arnobg]

I just put WL001 in a starter earlier today and plan on pitching tomorrow afternoon. It was only a 0.5L starter though.

If it is a small starter it should be done in 18-24 hours if you don't plan on refrigerating/decanting it.

 

[BrewMeister49]

I am doing a 1.073 OG IPA. I have 1 1/4 cup DME for it. I just dont have a ton of experience with starters and cannot do one tomorrow at all, but want to brew friday.

 

[BrewMeister49]

i usually let my starters for for 5-7 days before pitching

5-7 days?! wowza. How big of a starter are you using? Stir plate at room temp? 68-70*?

 

[m00ps]

youre fine. This is my windowsill starting every sunday

 

[m00ps]

I just recently got 2 stir plates and have been playing with them. I like to let my starters go long because I have to agiate them by hand and I have work every day so they go unattended a lot. I also like to give ~36hrsd for it to settle to the bottom so I can harvest some for next time

 

[hezagenius]

I usually run mine 24 hours on a plate and then cold crash overnight. Then decant in the morning and let it warm up to room temp before pitching. A guy once told me that you want to pitch when the yeast is in growth mode. That guy said he doesn't let his go more than 20 hours. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but it sounded reasonable.

 

[BrewMeister49]

Ok cool. So two days on the stir plate wont hurt then. I am just afraid of it fermenting out. I guess its all good!

 

[madcowbrewing]

You kind of want it to ferment out. Lots of people will even do it with enough time to cold crash them.

 

[BrewMeister49]

On a typical starter, what is the ferment out timeline? So, make starter, let it krausen, krausen falls and fermentation stops, swirl or decant and pitch?

 

[eadavis80]

Everyone has their own timetable and technique. Some swear by stir plates, some never have used them. Some pitch at high krausen, some cold crash and decant. I don't have a stir plate, but I've done both pitching the whole starter at high krausen and cold crashed and decanted - honestly - can't tell the difference. If you make your starter today, you'll be fine to pitch Friday - no problem. With a stir plate, you could cold crash Thursday night and remove it Friday morning, decant and pitch or let it ride on the plate 'till Friday - I'm sure both will be fine

 

[BrewMeister49]

Yeah, Thats kind of the reason for the question lol I wont be home to do anything with it tomorrow at all, so its a make it now and let it sit on the plate until Friday or just not do it until the morning of and maybe try to plan a Saturday brew day. I really think it will be fine on the stir plate from tonight until friday.

 

[tstanonis1]

I've done some starters early on the day of brewing and pitched that night. mostly because I didn't have time or forgot. so far I would say that any type of starter is better then straight from the vial into a batch. I have had much better beer doing some type of starter vs. no starter... I try for at least 24 hours sometimes 48, but in an emergency i start one before the brew and by the time I brew and cool and transfer and all that then I pitch. no ill affects noticed so far, just not ideal by the book...

 

[BrewMeister49]

I just made a starter and put it on the stir plate. I have it stirring low, but it will be about a 40-48 hour stir.

 

[Germanbrewgal]

If your nervous about it don't put it on the stir plate till your ready to walk out the door many don't even use a stir plate just give it a swirl once in a while till you leave

 

[pshankstar]

This thread was exactly what I was looking for! Thanks OP for posting this b/c I'm in a similar boat. Started my yeast starter last night, I want to brew tonight, but it may have to wait till tomorrow and if that happens I wouldn't be able to get the starter going today. So, it's been sitting on the stir plate for about 12 hours now. If I brew tonight, I'll just pitch it into the wort when I'm ready. Otherwise, I'll either keep it on the stir plate till tomorrow or place it in the fridge overnight and then let it warm up tomorrow while I'm brewing.

Thanks again OP!

 

[BrewMeister49]

Lol your welcome mines still on the stir plate. Just on low. We'll see how it is in the morning! I'll update.

 

[chickypad]

I usually run mine 24 hours on a plate and then cold crash overnight. Then decant in the morning and let it warm up to room temp before pitching.

This is what I do unless it's really old yeast. It should be fermented out within 24 hrs. I may leave it in the fridge a few days if not brewing immediately or with a particularly slow floccing yeast. As far as leaving it 5 days see below - about 50 seconds in.

 

[m00ps]

yeah with a stir plate, much beyond 2 days isnt really necessary as long as you have healthy yeast. Like I mentioned, I only do extended starters to make sure they basically ferment out entirely since I harvest some of the slurry at the bottom. Ive had too many popped mason jar lids in the past from harvesting starters that werent quite finished...

I guess what Im trying to say is either way will get you beer and neither will harm it. People usually recommend pitching it at like 24hrs on the stir plate just because the yeast is at peak activity usually. I like to decant my starters though to put as little of the oxygenated starter wort as possible so I go the other route

 

[chickypad]

yeah with a stir plate, much beyond 2 days isnt really necessary as long as you have healthy yeast. Like I mentioned, I only do extended starters to make sure they basically ferment out entirely since I harvest some of the slurry at the bottom. Ive had too many popped mason jar lids in the past from harvesting starters that werent quite finished...

I harvest too, and completely decant, maybe the stir plate makes the difference as they are always done for me in 24 hrs.

 

[m00ps]

I harvest too, and completely decant, maybe the stir plate makes the difference as they are always done for me in 24 hrs.

Ive only done 2 starters on my new stir plates so far but they do seem to finish much faster. Before, I would just intermittently shake them, with them being left alone for about 50% of the time due to sleep & work.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I regularly make 4 liter starters, using 3 cups of extra light DME and 2 vials of WLP810, to get a 1.040 gravity wort. On a stirplate the krausen falls after 48 hours hours at room temperature, that's when I refrigerate the flask until brewday which is usually 2 days after that.

 

[pshankstar]

I'm I doing something wrong? I followed the instructions found here on how to make a yeast starter for a 5 gallon batch of beer. Based on this thread it sounds like people make larger starters than what is suggested within the document I have linked above. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Also, will you ever see a krausen ring form if its on a stir plate thats running? Mine has been running for 15 hours (+/-) and I haven't seen a krausen ring form... I would assume not since the starter is always moving.

I plan on pitching the starter right into the fermenter tonight when I'm ready to pitch. So I hope I'm good to go! Thanks again guys!

 

[BrewMeister49]

From my experience, starters are good on just about anything. With it on a stir plate you will get the fermentation foam and a very tiny thin ring at the top of it. But not a whole lot. I've done a ton of beers without a starter and have just recently been into making them for all brews. More or less because I got a stir plate and it's cool. really anything under 1.070 doesn't require a starter, but I do anyways. Look up the calculations. I've been seeing most require around 230+ billion yeasties and the only way to do that with one tube is to make a starter. Beersmith puts my starter at 150-200 billion with out s stir and 300 billion with a stir plate.

 

[parrothead64]

I'm I doing something wrong? I followed the instructions found here on how to make a yeast starter for a 5 gallon batch of beer. Based on this thread it sounds like people make larger starters than what is suggested within the document I have linked above. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Also, will you ever see a krausen ring form if its on a stir plate thats running? Mine has been running for 15 hours (+/-) and I haven't seen a krausen ring form... I would assume not since the starter is always moving.

I plan on pitching the starter right into the fermenter tonight when I'm ready to pitch. So I hope I'm good to go! Thanks again guys!

that does sound low. I read that you dont get much growth with a 1L. I usually do 1.5-1.7 Liter starters for ales. The best way is to use a pitching calculator. Beersmith has one or you can go to Mrmalty.com . You enter the date on your vial or pack and the starting gravity of your beer and it tells you what size starter you need to get to the right pitch rate. Don't worry if you didn't see a krausen. If the colors lighter you should be good.

 

[Gavin C]

What is the earliest one can make a starter? I am planning on brewing Friday (11/20) and I cannot make it tomorrow (11/19). Can I make it tonight (11/18) and pitch it Friday? It will be on a stir plate. And I am planning a 1.5L starter of Cali yeast wlp001.

You don't want to make it any earlier than you need. for me that's a Monday evening before a Saturday afternoon pitch.

Here's my process if you're interested.

 

[BrewMeister49]

Well, got home this morning and I still have active fermentation! In fact at some point overnight it bubbled into the airlock. ( Im hoping no water got in as its not boiled ). I will be brewing this afternoon!

 

[Gavin C]

Starters should not have air locks placed. You want as much oxygen as possible getting in.

Pop that sucker off and replace with foil or foam stopper. Sanitized.

Also it's a good idea to place stars an or vodka in airlock. No contamination woes to be had that way.

 

[m00ps]

^yeah I definitely noticed faster activity when I switched to foam stoppers for my sacch starters. Only issue is it attracts the damn fruit flies so mcuh

 

[BrewMeister49]

Haha! You know, I always place some cheap whiskey in the airlocks. I didn't on this merely because it's a starter Lol learned. Foam stopper? What happens when it blows off?

 

[m00ps]

It just gets soaked up by the foam stopper. Every once in awhile I remove it, wring it out and rinse it, then dunk it in starsan before replacing. No biggie

 

[Gavin C]

Don't know. Never happened to me.

My starters spin at full speed so there is not much in the way of foam build up. Big flask also helps I suppose.

The faster the spin the better the yeast growth per gram of DME

 

[TheMadKing]

I usually start my starters on Thursday before a Saturday brew. Leave it on the stir plate 18-24 hours with foil over it, cold crash in my keezer for at least 12 hours, decant on brew day, let it warm up, add 500mL of fresh DME wort, put it back on the stir plate for 3-4 hours, and pitch when ready

Works great for me. I seem to always have krausen within 6 hours.

 

[BrewMeister49]

To update this, I brewed and kept into. The stir plate. I upped the speed a bit to knock down some of the foam. It was about a 1500 ml starter. Still very active ferm in the starter. It is now bubbling away in the fermenter!

 

[sky4meplease]

From the Yeast book:
Starters greater than 5% of wort volume should be decanted prior to pitch and the starter should be thoroughly cold crashed so you don't decant the less flocculant/higher attenuating yeast still in suspension. Allow the starter to run 12 hours after terminal gravity is reached to allow the yeast to build up glycogen reserves.
I have heard the scientific types floating around these forums reiterate this.
I have also cold crashed for 24 hours and viewed samples under a microscope to find a lot of yeast still in suspension.
I generally cold crash a minimum of 48 hours especially for medium or low flocculating yeast though I recently bottled 6 gallons of American Stout that I pitched a 1.5L starter into at near terminal gravity. We will see the long term effects of that.

 

[BrewMeister49]

It would be nice to have the luxury of building a starter, checking gravities and cold crashing forms few days checking the numbers along the way. I think it's fine either way. I would like to try the build/crash/decant/remake wort, pitch method though to see if there are any differences in taste to the beer. I guess it's all dependent on your OG. When you pitch a starter that has 30-100 billion more yeasties than required for your OG, is it important to decant the rest and worry about what's still in suspension?

 

[sky4meplease]

I suppose it depends on a lot of things including style, yeast strain, fermentation temperature, personal preference etc..
Since I started paying attention to the very small hell even microscopic details involved in my brewing, the results have been profound.
As it relates to yeast I think just building a healthy starter is huge. The little details that go along with it may only be detectable to the highly trained or experienced tasters.
Then again if it didn't matter I suppose they wouldn't have written a book about it.
At the end of the day educate yourself to your content, do what's best for your brewing and by all means... Have Fun!

 

[BrewMeister49]

I guess I'm still trying to find out the best practices for making a starter. (Since I just started making them). I have always just pitched the tube without one. How long does a chilled starter last in the fridge at 38*f? Then do I just leave enough old wort to swirl and pitch or decant all to the yeast cake, make new wort with DME and swirl/pitch?