Starter from last harvest

[Sdiddy84]

So I tried my hand at making a starter for the first time and thought why not try to harvest some as well looks pretty easy... So away I went and used the appropriate calculator and and over build my starter according to the specs and away it went. Looked great a couple hours in.

However.....

In the morning I found a mess on my stir plate and realized that I screwed up. I lost some yeast for sure but how much? I continued to let it ride and the next day I filled a mason jar with the starter and used the rest for a batch i had just completed. The batch is bubbling away and I couldn't be happier because i thought I royally screwed this up.

Fast forward to last night. I take my harvested yeast out of the fridge a few hours before and notice there's a small collection of yeast on the bottom. Not a ton but there is some there. So I proceed to make my starter over build it again in hopes of harvesting again and this morning I'm kinda disappointed. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the flask. just a murky wort with very few floaties swirling around. Zero krausen.

Do you think I'll have enough for my batch this weekend let alone to harvest?

Should I crash Friday to see how much yeast I have then separate? I do plan on brewing Saturday Morning.

What would homebrewtalk do?

 

[Kampenken]

I'm not sure what "a mess on my stir plate" means. How in the world did this overflow occur? Were you in a flask? Was the flask, or jar, very full? My concerns on the above are if any contamination may have occurred, in which case while yes the batch is bubbling, you'll see if there was any contamination. For all of those reasons, I may be inclined to start again with fresh yeast and overbuild.

As for the harvested yeast, you didn't mention if you swirled it up good before decanting part into a mason jar. This is quite important, otherwise you're not pouring of an amount you think you are- e.g. if you created a 1.5L starter, and poured out .5L of starter, you may have captured just a lot of wort w/o much yeast, which would also explain your issue with trying to rebuild this starter up again.

I'd get fresh yeast, overbuild, correct your issue you had with the mess, and make sure you decant correctly (if you didn't previously). Good luck!

 

[broadbill]

I'd see what Friday brings...that fact that you pitched your screw-up and its fermenting normally indicates that the screw up didn't screw you up that bad.

I never see active krausen when I use a stir-plate anyway? Assuming you had semi-clear wort and now its murky indicates that you have growth there too.

dont worry, have a blah, blah, blah

 

[Sdiddy84]

I'm not sure what "a mess on my stir plate" means. How in the world did this overflow occur? Were you in a flask? Was the flask, or jar, very full? My concerns on the above are if any contamination may have occurred, in which case while yes the batch is bubbling, you'll see if there was any contamination. For all of those reasons, I may be inclined to start again with fresh yeast and overbuild.

As for the harvested yeast, you didn't mention if you swirled it up good before decanting part into a mason jar. This is quite important, otherwise you're not pouring of an amount you think you are- e.g. if you created a 1.5L starter, and poured out .5L of starter, you may have captured just a lot of wort w/o much yeast, which would also explain your issue with trying to rebuild this starter up again.

I'd get fresh yeast, overbuild, correct your issue you had with the mess, and make sure you decant correctly (if you didn't previously). Good luck!

A 2L starter in a 2L flask. had a good swirl going so how my stir plate got covered in yeast is beyond me. I've never thought that a starter would need a blow off. I'm thinking that I didn't Decant properly, I turned the stir plate off and instantly pour into the mason jar. A good swirl makes sense now and will do that next time.

If my LHBS has the same yeast would you suggest pitching again in the same starter that's going now or just start from fresh?

 

[flars]

You did find out one sure thing. You need a larger flask for a 2 liter starter. This is like fermenting 5 gallons of beer in a 5 gallon carboy. Some beer and yeast is going to come out the top. I'll do a maximum of 1.5 liters in a two liter flask.

I will have 25 ml of yeast saved from a starter when I do a 100 billion cell over build with the BrewUnited calculator. With most yeasts I will estimate 4 billion cells per ml. How many ml of yeast do you estimate you had from the overbuild saved?

I would let your current starter go to completion on the stir plate. Plan on using all the yeast propagated for this weekends beer. You can harvest enough yeast from the current fermenting beer for at least 4 more 5 gallon beers if the beer is not a super high gravity beer.

Cold crash the current starter Friday evening and check the volume of yeast propagated in the morning. Postpone your brewing till the next weekend if it looks like you will need to make this starter a 2 step starter.


You can also pick up more yeast for a new starter in a different flask/container. Use the shake and swirl method for this starter.

Sometimes a krausen is formed when using a stir plate and sometimes not. It depends on the yeast used and the inoculation rate.

Edit: Saving the overbuild in pint canning jars with ml marks works well for estimating the volume of yeast after compaction in the frig.

 

[Sdiddy84]

You did find out one sure thing. You need a larger flask for a 2 liter starter. This is like fermenting 5 gallons of beer in a 5 gallon carboy. Some beer and yeast is going to come out the top. I'll do a maximum of 1.5 liters in a two liter flask.

I will have 25 ml of yeast saved from a starter when I do a 100 billion cell over build with the BrewUnited calculator. With most yeasts I will estimate 4 billion cells per ml. How many ml of yeast do you estimate you had from the overbuild saved?

That's the calculator I used and it suggest a starter of 2L. The orignal Gravity of the last batch was 1.052. Thinking back I probably could have gotten away with a 1.5L. as for the ml question I have no idea. In a 500ml Mason jar the was maybe 1/8" of yeast on the bottom.

I would let your current starter go to completion on the stir plate. Plan on using all the yeast propagated for this weekends beer. You can harvest enough yeast from the current fermenting beer for at least 4 more 5 gallon beers if the beer is not a super high gravity beer.

Do you mean Rinsing the yeast here?

Cold crash the current starter Friday evening and check the volume of yeast propagated in the morning. Postpone your brewing till the next weekend if it looks like you will need to make this starter a 2 step starter.

This sounds like a plan I can get behind Thank you.

One last question though,

How would you measure ml if its in a mason jar with no markings. I know the mason jars are 500ml. do you have a method or do you eyeball it? Maybe I should I take an empty mason jar and mark it as I'm filling with water.

 

[flars]

Added comments inside the quote.

That's the calculator I used and it suggest a starter of 2L. The orignal Gravity of the last batch was 1.052. Thinking back I probably could have gotten away with a 1.5L. as for the ml question I have no idea. In a 500ml Mason jar the was maybe 1/8" of yeast on the bottom.



Do you mean Rinsing the yeast here?

No rinsing. Just harvesting. Take a look at this thread.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=579350
I strain out the hop debris and most of the break material when pouring into the fermentor. Can harvest almost pure yeast this way.



This sounds like a plan I can get behind Thank you.

One last question though,

How would you measure ml if its in a mason jar with no markings. I know the mason jars are 500ml. do you have a method or do you eyeball it? Maybe I should I take an empty mason jar and mark it as I'm filling with water.

The first time I harvested was in a Kerr jar. No markings. I put a piece of tape on the side and marked out 25 ml increments by pouring a measured amount of water. (Had the jar sitting on a scale. Marked each 25 ml increment by adding 25 grams of water.) I now use Ball jars which have rudimentary ml marks.