I been brewing for a couple years now using Star San to sanitize my bottles before bottling my beer. Not rinsing the star san out drives me crazy, so I always rinse the bottles after using star san. The last three batches I've fought the urge to rinse, and just let them air dry on a bottling tree (The Star San bottle says not to rinse). All three batches did not carbonate. The first one is about 2 months in bottles, still nothing. I opened up the newest beer (about 3 weeks in bottles) last night, nothing. Is there anything in the star san residue that is killing the yeast? I've been letting the bottles air dry on the tree for about 30 minutes, and they are completely dry when I bottle. Not rinsing after sanitizing is the only thing I have changed in these batches. Does anyone know why they aren't carbing? Thanks in advance.
Star San and carbonation
- Thread starter steven85
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No, the star san doesn't kill the yeast. In fact, it breaks down and becomes yeast food of sorts.
I don't let it air dry. I add the beer with foam still in the bottles. No off flavors or problems yet. And I definitely wouldn't rinse it, I mean after all that's why they call it a no-rinse sanitizer.
Regardless, I don't think the star-san (either way) is affecting your carbonation. Let's get some details: what kind of yeast? how long in the primary/secondary for each batch? how much priming sugar and what kind? Are you bottling in glass or plastic bottles? I'm just trying to get a feel for your set up. Describe your bottling process if you could...
I don't let it air dry. I add the beer with foam still in the bottles. No off flavors or problems yet. And I definitely wouldn't rinse it, I mean after all that's why they call it a no-rinse sanitizer.
Regardless, I don't think the star-san (either way) is affecting your carbonation. Let's get some details: what kind of yeast? how long in the primary/secondary for each batch? how much priming sugar and what kind? Are you bottling in glass or plastic bottles? I'm just trying to get a feel for your set up. Describe your bottling process if you could...
I'm priming with table sugar, and using beer smith to get the amounts. The last batch I used WPL 530. Number may be wrong, but its the Trappist yeast. I carbed at 2.9 vol, I think I ended up putting around 3.5-4 oz of table sugar in for priming. The first batch that didn't carb I used WPL001 and used a pack of priming sugar from my homebrew shop.
5 gallon batches? Both packs of yeast from the same LHBS? Did you check the dates? Did you make a starter? 3.5-4 oz is low for 2.9 volumes at 5 gallons.
Did you boil water and add the sugar to it then pour it in the bottling bucket and rack on top?
And how are you storing the beers while they are bottle conditioning?
Did you boil water and add the sugar to it then pour it in the bottling bucket and rack on top?
And how are you storing the beers while they are bottle conditioning?
stratslinger
Well-Known Member
I know this doesn't deal directly with your problem, but both uses you described for your StarSan basically negate any positive effects the starsan has. StarSan works by setting up a thin layer of sanitizing solution on any surface that your beer will touch - this kills most bacteria (not all, but on the order of 99.9% or thereabouts), and basically acts as a barrier for additional bacteria that might wind up on the surface.
Rinse a surface sanitized with starsan, that barrier is gone (not to mention that any bacteria that might be in the rinse water now are sitting on that same surface).
Let a surface sanitized with starsan dry, that barrier again is gone. Anything that lands on the surface once its dry can take hold. And that .1% of bacteria that didn't get killed on contact have all that drying time to breed and multiply.
There's a reason people say "don't fear the foam"! Listen to them!
Now, onto your problem, we still can't tell much without info like gravities. What was the OG? What was the SG when you bottled? How long did you let the bottles sit to carbonate? What kind of conditions (mainly temperature) did those bottles see while they should have been carbonating?
Without those answers, we can only guess at what might be going on.
Rinse a surface sanitized with starsan, that barrier is gone (not to mention that any bacteria that might be in the rinse water now are sitting on that same surface).
Let a surface sanitized with starsan dry, that barrier again is gone. Anything that lands on the surface once its dry can take hold. And that .1% of bacteria that didn't get killed on contact have all that drying time to breed and multiply.
There's a reason people say "don't fear the foam"! Listen to them!
Now, onto your problem, we still can't tell much without info like gravities. What was the OG? What was the SG when you bottled? How long did you let the bottles sit to carbonate? What kind of conditions (mainly temperature) did those bottles see while they should have been carbonating?
Without those answers, we can only guess at what might be going on.
I just looked in beersmith to see the amount I primed with, it was 4.6 oz of table sugar actually. All the yeast were from the same store, I didn't check exp dates, but all three batches had healthy fermentations. I made a 2 liter starter for all three, with dme and an OG of 1.035. And yes, 5 gallon batches. I'm storing the bottles and 76F, in a dark closet. I boiled the sugar with a few cups of water for 10-15 minutes. The only thing I can think of is maybe my capper isn't sealing them. The first batch was with the last of my caps that I had, then I bought more for the last two batches, so it can't be the caps (the caps I had for the first batch were the same ones I've been using for a couple months, without any issues) Any ideas?
stratslinger
Well-Known Member
Again, still need more answers:
What was the gravity when you bottled? (This may be academic - if fermentation wasn't done when you bottled, I'd expect too much carbonation, not flat beer - but it's good to know just the same)
How long did you leave the beers in the closet? How long in the fridge afterward?
Assuming FG is in the right neighborhood, and you're giving it sufficient time in the closet (this may be the key answer we still need from you!), the capper seems a likely place to look - but lets make sure we've got all the other bases covered before tossing out possibly perfectly good gear!
What was the gravity when you bottled? (This may be academic - if fermentation wasn't done when you bottled, I'd expect too much carbonation, not flat beer - but it's good to know just the same)
How long did you leave the beers in the closet? How long in the fridge afterward?
Assuming FG is in the right neighborhood, and you're giving it sufficient time in the closet (this may be the key answer we still need from you!), the capper seems a likely place to look - but lets make sure we've got all the other bases covered before tossing out possibly perfectly good gear!
Yeah, I understand that rinsing after Starsan negates the effect, I was just worried about taste; although I'm not rinsing anymore...
When I bottled, FG ranged from 1.008 to 1.012. All the beer is still in the closet, I just bring one out at a time to refrigerate, so I can taste it. My processes haven't changed since I began brewing, so I am not sure what the problem is!
When I bottled, FG ranged from 1.008 to 1.012. All the beer is still in the closet, I just bring one out at a time to refrigerate, so I can taste it. My processes haven't changed since I began brewing, so I am not sure what the problem is!
stratslinger
Well-Known Member
Well, unless you make it to too great a concentration, starsan shouldn't do anything to the taste. That foam is almost all air - the amount of actual starsan that winds up in your beer is negligible, and should actually get broken down by the yeast...
FG's sound reasonable... "All the beer is still in the closet" still doesn't tell us how long that's been - and d'oh - I just re-read the 3 weeks statement in your OP - sorry!!!.
When you crack them open, do you get any off-gassing at all? That snap-hiss sound? Any vapor? That'd at least suggest if there is CO2 under some amount of pressure in there.
Since the beer is flat, have you tried taking another gravity reading on one coming straight out of the bottle? If it's a few points higher than it was before you primed, that might mean the yeast isn't actually fermenting the priming sugar. If it's close to the pre-priming gravity, then the fermentation is happening and the gas is likely escaping...
I should also note: I've bottled many sixers with carb tabs and one full batch with DME for priming, using starsan in the bottles each time. Not only have I not had one where the starsan had any negative effects on the carbonation, I overcarbonated the full batch!
FG's sound reasonable... "All the beer is still in the closet" still doesn't tell us how long that's been - and d'oh - I just re-read the 3 weeks statement in your OP - sorry!!!.
When you crack them open, do you get any off-gassing at all? That snap-hiss sound? Any vapor? That'd at least suggest if there is CO2 under some amount of pressure in there.
Since the beer is flat, have you tried taking another gravity reading on one coming straight out of the bottle? If it's a few points higher than it was before you primed, that might mean the yeast isn't actually fermenting the priming sugar. If it's close to the pre-priming gravity, then the fermentation is happening and the gas is likely escaping...
I should also note: I've bottled many sixers with carb tabs and one full batch with DME for priming, using starsan in the bottles each time. Not only have I not had one where the starsan had any negative effects on the carbonation, I overcarbonated the full batch!
What kind of capper are you using? Are your caps on straight? As long as the caps are crimped on straight you should be good in that department. I had the same issue you had and for me it was that the priming sugar wasn't being mixed throughout the beer. Only half of that batch carbed properly. So, just maybe, it could have something to do with technique. Do you rack on top of your priming solution?
just saw the other questions: My bottles are in a 77F stable closet, and my OG have been in the 1.075-1.085 range. I think I'm going to cap an empty bottle and stick it underwater to see if I see bubbles....
yes, I rack on top on the priming solution. Seems like if that was the problem, some would be carbed and some not, like your issue. When I open the bottle, theres no sound whatsoever, and its been a couple months for one of the beers, sitting at a constant temp in a dark closet.
Keg your beer?
bigbeergeek
Well-Known Member
I'm stumped. Perhaps borrow a fellow brewer's capper next time you bottle and see if that's the problem? A slow leak probably won't reveal itself by dunking a bottle. Pressure building inside the bottle during carbonation could force itself out of a poorly sealed cap. That's the only thing that would make sense. Everything else you've done is routine for success.
bigbeergeek
Well-Known Member
Would you re-dose a beer with an OG of 1.075? I probably wouldn't on a normal 1 month primary.
ArcaneXor
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1.070 is, roughly, the point at which carbonation fails relatively often, depending on yeast strain and health. Since it's a major pain to "fix" partially carbonated bottles, I think it's cheap insurance.
bigbeergeek
Well-Known Member
...too true. 1/4 packet on Notty in the bottling bucket is cheap insurance indeed.
rico567
Well-Known Member
For almost four years now, I sanitize my bottles with Star San (by squirting it up inside with a vinator) and then place the bottles upside down in the dishwasher and bottle the next morning. Everything carbonates just fine.
