"Stale" type flavours from low color caramel malts?

[p_p]

Hi all
I just heard a CYBI podcast where the pro brewer being interviewed (I think the beer under discussion is called Modus Hoperandi, but I am not sure) stated they use caramel 120 which does not carry stale malt flavors lower color caramels do ...

What is your opinion?

 

[billl]

I think modus hoperandi is not nearly as good as a whole lot of different IPA's that use lighter malts. Of course taste is subjective, but I think that particular doesn't match up with my experience at all.

 

[Homercidal]

I can't understand how they could substitute C120 for any of the lower lovibond crystal malts. And here's why:

Along with flavor, crystal malts give sweetness and body to a beer. Using a tiny amount of 120L malt in place of a lot more 20L isn't going to give near as much sweetness or body, even if it colors the beer similarly. Of course, that may be just what the brewer wants, but also:

120L tastes VERY different than the lower lovibond malts. The reactions that occur during processing creates very different flavors. 20L might taste kind of like caramel, but 120L has flavors described more as "burnt", or "raisiny" or "prune".

I don't think I've ever heard that lower lovibond malts give a perception of stale flavor.

 

[chickypad]

I just listened to that, he makes the comment about 38 min in. He's talking about how to get the copper colour and it does sound like he says the 120 doesn't give the stale malt flavors that the lower lovibonds do. It's a poor recording, I think they are in the tap room, but it does sound like he says stale in which case I have no idea what he is talking about. I would think sweet malt flavor is a better description, more like honey or sweet caramel taste rather than the raisin, toffee, or sometimes burnt caramel taste with darker crystals. Many folks do avoid the lower L crystals in their IPA's because they don't want them to be sweet. Unless you're just using old grain none of them should really be stale.

 

[Homercidal]

I just listened to that, he makes the comment about 38 min in. He's talking about how to get the copper colour and it does sound like he says the 120 doesn't give the stale malt flavors that the lower lovibonds do. It's a poor recording, I think they are in the tap room, but it does sound like he says stale in which case I have no idea what he is talking about. I would think sweet malt flavor is a better description, more like honey or sweet caramel taste rather than the raisin, toffee, or sometimes burnt caramel taste with darker crystals. Many folks do avoid the lower L crystals in their IPA's because they don't want them to be sweet. Unless you're just using old grain none of them should really be stale.

A lot of brewers these days are skipping crystal malts in IPAs altogether, to make them drier and less sweet. It accentuates the hop bitterness and some crystal malt flavors don't pair well with some hop flavors, IMO.

I prefer a little more balance on the sweetness, so I still use about 1/2 pound of a lighter crystal malt. I don't think they end up "sweet" at all, but of course everyone has their own tastes.

I need to get back to listening to more podcasts. I just don't get as much time to sit and pay attention like I used to. I found many of them were simply repeating what I'd known already.

 

[p_p]

I just listened to that, he makes the comment about 38 min in. He's talking about how to get the copper colour and it does sound like he says the 120 doesn't give the stale malt flavors that the lower lovibonds do. It's a poor recording, I think they are in the tap room, but it does sound like he says stale in which case I have no idea what he is talking about. I would think sweet malt flavor is a better description, more like honey or sweet caramel taste rather than the raisin, toffee, or sometimes burnt caramel taste with darker crystals. Many folks do avoid the lower L crystals in their IPA's because they don't want them to be sweet. Unless you're just using old grain none of them should really be stale.

Yea, he said "stale flavor". But based on all the comments I see in this thread, he probably chose a poor descriptor for the flavor he perceives from low L malts, I guess.

Thanks for your comment.

 

[p_p]

Thanks everybody for sharing your opinion.
I don't plan to brew the Modus Hoperandi clone recipe, but I found these show to be packed of information ... Often pro brewers make statements that later on get dissected by Jamil et all which is just awesome for me. I am still a few years behind in terms of podcasts, but catching up rapidly.

cheers
pp