Stainless fermenter... yes or no?

[Yesfan]

Already done ;-)
29” high, 17” wide, 10” deep from opening to compressor hump. It's that damn compressor getting in the way that reduces space in there. The "shell" of the door has been removed to afford more space. It looks very ghetto in there. I use a ratchet strap to hold the door closed tight.
I, too, harvest from overbuilt starters. Nice to have the option of harvesting from yeast cake but rather.. I would be glad to do a trub dump / just transfer beer out without worrying about picking up solids. Conical would surely get the job done. Looks like the SPiedel could do similar based on the raised spigot position.



That's how I imagined it - cap on, invert and let hot cleaner soak into that space. This might sound funny, but, that's not something I can do with my bucket. Would be nice to, say, mix up 1 gallon of cleaner... put in bucket... cap it with a lid with no ports in it (I don't have one)... shake it... repeat with rinse water. Or, hey, why not get stoppers to plug into the lid grommets? Lol
I've been using Brewer's Best ale pail, 6.5 gallon capacity. I will re-review the Ss bucket specs but I think the diameter is going to be too much for the FC.



How about gaskets and such? Quick / easy to break down and reassemble for cleaning? How often do you do that break down?
Why have you had to replace buckets? The fact that I'm still using this ~$10 bucket almost concerns me. ...paranoia creeps in. There's probably some micro-scratches in there. No big gouges.

The one thing that's got my attention and has had it for a while is that the bucket "holds" the aroma from last batch even after a thorough cleaning. Like a mix of hops and cheese. Your next question: "Is your beer turning out OK though?" Answer: I suppose so. Nothing has tasted awful or even bad...



No way do I want to add some kind of glycol system. Anything requiring a separate unit next to the fermenter = Nope. Don't have the space!

At the end of it all, I'm thinking (hoping) I get a cheap upright freezer on Craig's List. Surely will allow more internal space than my mini fridge. And I do have space to go up and even slightly more deep than the mini fridge. A stout / wide chest freezer, I do not have the room for. So, that's a small investment. Could theoretically get any damn unit I want once I've got a new FC. While I wait to get that figured out, perhaps I should poll you wonderful folks on what unit to get!

Crap. The forum doesn't allow for polls. Or at least, I can't figure out how to do it.

• SS Brew Bucket
• Spiedel
• Anvil
• Fermzilla
• Delta
• Spike
• did I forget some?

Thanks all!

Personally, if I was gonna splurge for the Flex+, might as well shoot for Spike's CF5 conical. Pretty much everything the Plus has, the CF5 also has (minus the racking arm...highly recommend getting).

I have the Flex+. I love mine, but at the time of purchase I was wanting the CF5. The CF5 is about $200 more but I think you get more for your money with it than the Flex+ for $400. I got mine because of Spike's Black Friday sale.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Pretty much everything the Plus has, the CF5 also has (minus the racking arm...highly recommend getting).

So... CF5 costs more... is bigger, has a dump port... but no racking arm??
It's too big (for me [insert Michael Scott reference here]). Also, that beast isn't fitting into a FC. At least, not a compact FC. Cool product though!

 

[Yesfan]

I thought I read in this thread you were considering an upright freezer because of lack of space. There's a member here (probably several) who have the Spike 15 gallon conical in an upright. I imagine a 5 or 10 gallon would be no problem.

If space, especially vertical space, is a problem then maybe something like the 10 gallon Spiedel would be a better option vs the SS brew bucket or (more expensive) Spike Flex +.

 

[Cato1507]

Want to treat myself but don't want to make a foolish purchase.
Have been using the same plastic bucket for... ~7 years? She's treated me well and still works fine. She goes into my mini fridge FC which has heating wires installed too.
Why even change up to SS? With the Ss Brewtech Brew Bucket, I really like the idea of being able to do an easy closed transfer to keg. I still haven't figured out how to do that with my plastic bucket. The conical trub trap is a nice convenience but I've lived without it for this long so, not the biggest draw. Maybe I misunderstood but cleaning this kind of fermenter versus the plastic bucket is actually more of a headache. That's a minus I wouldn't be happy with. Unless I'm wrong?
The SS BB has a heating and cooing system... for $316. OK. Answered my own question. That plus the $200 bucket and another... $35 in accessories, nope. Can't justify spending that much.

So, friends, what would you do? Cheers!

I use both the 7gal and the 3.5gal Ss Brewbucket. They are super easy to clean and maintain and the conical portion gathers the trub and the rotating racking arm allows you to draw very clear beer with excellent clarity.

I can fit my 7 gal in the mini fridge, or I can fit the 3.5 gal and my 2.5 gal plastic fermenter in for separate batch brewing. I use an inkbird controller and a flexible heat grid that I tape to the brew bucket. Stainless might not be the cheapest way to go, but IMO you end up with better returns on the investment.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I thought I read in this thread you were considering an upright freezer because of lack of space. There's a member here (probably several) who have the Spike 15 gallon conical in an upright. I imagine a 5 or 10 gallon would be no problem.

You read right! I'm a space cadet re: physics (wait, I don't think this analogy works haha) So I'm surprised that the CF5 could fit into an upright freezer. I think the legs on there are throwing me off. Your insight gives me more confidence.
Again, I think I'm on the right track by assuming getting that upright freezer should instantly allow for flexibility to buy any damn fermenter without fear of it being able to fit.

Stainless might not be the cheapest way to go, but IMO you end up with better returns on the investment.

Is the jury still out on this? To you @Cato1507 and others, what are the key advantages of SS over plastic? Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

Is the jury still out on this? To you @Cato1507 and others, what are the key advantages of SS over plastic?

Yeah, I'd say the jury is still out. When you commit you definitely want to be happy with it. That includes a provision for an FC that will fit the fermenter.

I think the SS brew bucket (and alikes) are fine, but the aspect ratio (steepness) of the "cone" is not enough for dropping trub. IMO, it's a pretty much useless "feature."
You want to make sure there's a port in the lid to add stuff (dry hops) while flushing CO2 in through another port. That CO2 "nipple" should also allow you to do closed transfers.
With good care a stainless bucket should last forever.

The issue with metal buckets is you can't see inside without removing the lid, that could make racking a bit more unpredictable. I guess you could peek through a wide enough port in the lid and a flashlight perhaps.

The issue with plastic fermenters is being more scratch prone, having mould seams, or other protrusions. Spending $150-200 on a PET fermenter is a bit crazy, IMO. Looks are immaterial, you need to cover them up anyway, or better yet, stick in an FC.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Im a new homebrewer but quickly learning and love the challenge of learning processes leading to brewing good beer. I wanted a lot of the things that the OP posts about. So in the end and after looking over LOTS of options, I went with fermonsters in mini fridges in order to afford to build two of them. Love it! While I cannot do any sort of trub/yeast dump, Ive been VERY satisfied to put together a system (based 100% on what lots of others in HBT are already doing) that can minimize oxygen and control temps. Both of those were my most important considerations in building my systems which then made it easier to plan it out once I figured out these two goals in mind.

If you are considering this option, Ive put together a thread with parts list for a general cost estimate as well.

Dual Fermentation Systems Build
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/dual-fermentation-systems-build.675134/

 

[LittleRiver]

...The issue with plastic fermenters is being more scratch prone, having mould seams, or other protrusions....

Scratches inside PET fermenters happen during cleaning. If you have an appropriate cleaning procedure the inside is not going to get scratched, and the "scratch prone" issue just goes away.

Regarding plastic mold seams, etc, you mean like the ridges and tiny pockets that can be found in SS welds?

...Spending $150-200 on a PET fermenter is a bit crazy....

That would be crazy, considering they're priced at about $35.

 

[IslandLizard]

That would be crazy, considering they're priced at about $35.

I was referring to the Fermzilla.

 

[Stand]

If I had it to do again, I would buy a 10 or 15 gallon torpedo keg to ferment in. Ss, Pressure capable, and easier to clean.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I think the SS brew bucket (and alikes) are fine, but the aspect ratio (steepness) of the "cone" is not enough for dropping trub. IMO, it's a pretty much useless "feature."

I might be getting tripped up. I'm going off-topic (again, sort of). Cone collects trub, great. Beer sits on top of it, fine. I do that with my flat bottom bucket. I don't see the harm. So, point of the cone is to drop trub out mid-fermentation? If that's what the point of it is... 1) Why? 2) Suppose the vessel has a racking arm with pickup tube that sits above the cone. Clear beer could get transferred regardless if the trub below was dropped out or still sitting there. WTF am I missing here?

You want to make sure there's a port in the lid to add stuff (dry hops) while flushing CO2 in through another port. That CO2 "nipple" should also allow you to do closed transfers.

Hell yes! Like what we've been trying to figure out with our plastic buckets. ;-)

The issue with metal buckets is you can't see inside without removing the lid, that could make racking a bit more unpredictable.

That's where my lid-off transfer method has worked well, in the plastic bucket. But, to my point above, suppose the pickup tube is going to sit above the trub. Wouldn't only clear beer transfer out?

Spending $150-200 on a PET fermenter is a bit crazy, IMO. Looks are immaterial, you need to cover them up anyway, or better yet, stick in an FC.

AMEN. I'm not trying to impress friends with how my gear looks. Sure, it'd be nice to have something fancy looking but she's going in the FC anyway.

that can minimize oxygen and control temps. Both of those were my most important considerations

I saw those Fermonsters as well. Quite affordable. My damn mini fridge has both the compressor hump on bottom and the freezer chamber on top. Your mini fridge looks much more roomy than what I've got! So, there's another option. Again, I have about 3' more in height that I could occupy should I replace my mini fridge with an upright freezer.

 

[Yesfan]

........Spending $150-200 on a PET fermenter is a bit crazy, IMO. Looks are immaterial, you need to cover them up anyway, or better yet, stick in an FC.

Just to clarify, I didn't recommend the Fermzilla based on looks. Compared to the Flex and Brew Bucket, the Fermzilla gives you a bit more with the ability to dump trub harvest yeast with the dump valve and do pressurized fermentations. You can't do that with the brew bucket and for the Spike you have to step up to the Flex+ which is $400 and still doesn't have a way to dump the trub and harvest yeast like a conical.

I'm a stainless guy, but after a couple of batches in my Spike conical (and my Flex+), I can see where the Fermzilla can give you similar performance for a lost less money.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Cone collects trub, great. Beer sits on top of it, fine... I don't see the harm. So, point of the cone is to drop trub out mid-fermentation? If that's what the point of it is... 1) Why?

At one time it was thought that getting the beer off the trub was necessary, because of the belief that sitting on the trub was harmful to the beer. The conical shape minimized the contact the beer had with the trub. "Secondary fermetation" was done by racking to a secondary vessel (leaving the trub behind), or dumping the trub out the bottom of a conical. It was easier to dump the trub from the conical, so back then the conical was seen as having an advantage.

Fast forward to today, and there is general understanding that the trub is not harmful as was once thought. In addition, nowadays it's standard practice to avoid transferring to secondary fermenters, because of the damage done to the beer by oxygen exposure in the racking process.

For most styles of beer, contact time with the trub is not a problem. The shape of the bottom of the fermenter just doesn't matter.

As for harvesting yeast, it doesn't matter whether it's collected out the bottom of a conical or poured out of the top of the fermenter after the beer has been drained. The shape of the fermenter bottom just doesn't matter.

Some styles do benefit from an extended aging period, so in those cases it does make sense to separate the beer from the trub. A conical makes that process easier, because you can dump the trub without transferring to a secondary vessel. But there's a catch. The conical is going to be tied up for the entire extended aging period, which may be months. That's not practical for a lot of folks. In those cases a transfer to a secondary vessel makes sense -- completely negating the "advantage" of having a conical.

Some tout the pressure capabilities of conicals for doing closed transfers, but the same can be done with simple flat bottomed PET fermenters. Pressure is not even a requirement, gravity powered closed transfers work great.

2) Suppose the vessel has a racking arm with pickup tube that sits above the cone. Clear beer could get transferred regardless if the trub below was dropped out or still sitting there. WTF am I missing here?...

You're not missing anything.

 

[ILMSTMF]

At one time it was thought that getting the beer off the trub was necessary, because of the belief that sitting on the trub was harmful to the beer. The conical shape minimized the contact the beer had with the trub. "Secondary fermetation" was done

Man... it's been years since I've read Palmer, 3rd edition I believe. All coming back now that you said that!
Yeah, I used to rack from bucket to carboy after two weeks. Then another two weeks before moving to bottling bucket / bottles. What a pain in the ass. Key note - these were usually unnecessary secondaries. I can remember two where it made sense. A barleywine that sat in secondary, in a dark closet, for six months. And a chocolate stout with PB2 (peanut butter powder). I used the carboy to swirl the PB2 around at least once a day to get it incorporated into the beer. But even those weren't true secondary fermentations. I digress.

In addition, nowadays it's standard practice to avoid transferring to secondary fermenters, because of the damage done to the beer by oxygen exposure in the racking process.

See above! LOL

Some styles do benefit from an extended aging period, so in those cases it does make sense to separate the beer from the trub.

As in my barleywine.

The conical is going to be tied up for the entire extended aging period, which may be months. That's not practical for a lot of folks. In those cases a transfer to a secondary vessel makes sense -- completely negating the "advantage" of having a conical.

YUP! Which is why I've got that spare carboy. And your point holds true re: negating advantage of conical.

Some tout the pressure capabilities of conicals for doing closed transfers, but the same can be done with simple flat bottomed PET fermenters. Pressure is not even a requirement, gravity powered closed transfers work great.

Opening a can of worms here... I have been trying to figure out a way to do a closed transfer with my bucket. Two ports in lid. One for airlock, one for thermowell. Airlock port is tighter. Cannot remove thermowell without removing lid.
I really should start a new thread for this...
Anyway, the best I came up with is drilling a third hole in lid. Use port for a SS racking cane I have. Attach CO2 supply to airlock stem. Hope for the best.
1) Haven't drilled that hole yet so can't say if it'll work. 2) The SS cane doesn't have a... deflector / guard whatever it's called on it. My plastic auto siphon does. Works well to minimize trub pick up.

You're not missing anything.

AMEN.

 

[IslandLizard]

But there's a catch. The conical is going to be tied up for the entire extended aging period, which may be months. That's not practical for a lot of folks. In those cases a transfer to a secondary vessel makes sense -- completely negating the "advantage" of having a conical.

That doesn't have to be the case when you use kegs for aging. Do a normal closed, oxygen-free transfer in 100% liquid pre-purged kegs as if they are serving kegs. Then age them for however long you want. Also easy to push out small samples along the way or infuse with tinctures. Even adding wood cubes or chips can be done under CO2 with minimal or no O2 invasion.

 

[LittleRiver]

... I have been trying to figure out a way to do a closed transfer with my bucket....

Put a $4 spigot on your bucket. That will enable you to do gravity powered closed transfers.

See the photos in the post I referenced in post #30 above.

 

[IslandLizard]

Put a $4 spigot on your bucket. That will enable you to do gravity powered closed transfers.

See the photos in the post I referenced in post #30 above.

I like that Occam's Razor approach!
Have done a lot of them like that? How did it turn out?

 

[ILMSTMF]

Put a $4 spigot on your bucket. That will enable you to do gravity powered closed transfers.

I could make that old bottling bucket my primary ...
I’ve not given it best care, handling it roughly. So a solid chance there are more micro scratches than my real primary. Hmmm.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Writing this down now before I forget.

I F'd up my FC measurements.

Current measurement is 11" deep from door open to hump. Only 24" high. If I remove the freezer chamber U-shaped enclosure, I can go to 29" high.

That 11" floor space sucks. If I put in a shelf of some sort in line with the hump, I would have 16" back wall to door opening and 20" height (if I remove the freezer chamber). Sucks worse; that height probably won't cut it for any vessel (including my current setup).
Of all things to consider, the SS Brew Bucket might fit. Doubt it, the specs may not account for airlock height. Actually, the Fermonster seems like most likely thing to fit.

For the love of God, can someone just sell me an upright freezer for cheap?! LOL

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Writing this down now before I forget.

I F'd up my FC measurements.

Current measurement is 11" deep from door open to hump. Only 24" high. If I remove the freezer chamber U-shaped enclosure, I can go to 29" high.

That 11" floor space sucks. If I put in a shelf of some sort in line with the hump, I would have 16" back wall to door opening and 20" height (if I remove the freezer chamber). Sucks worse; that height probably won't cut it for any vessel (including my current setup).
Of all things to consider, the SS Brew Bucket might fit. Doubt it, the specs may not account for airlock height. Actually, the Fermonster seems like most likely thing to fit.

For the love of God, can someone just sell me an upright freezer for cheap?! LOL

On the 4.4cf mini fridge I'm using it is 11.5" from the hump to the edge of the refrigerator. Since the door protrudes in a little bit, I needed to cut the door slightly so make the fermonster fit. The fermonster I think is actually 11.3" in diameter but the inside of the door gives that space.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Current measurement is 11" deep from door open to hump....

You can build a collar on the front of your mini fridge to give you more depth.

I got lucky and found a used Haier mini fridge (for wine) that has a clear curved front door. The curve in the door gives just enough space for a big mouth bubbler to fit. With the clear door and a clear fermenter I can see when the krausen has fallen, or when the beer gets clear during a cold crash, without even opening the door. I rigged a window shade that pulls up to block light when I'm not snooping on the yeast.

 

[Stand]

I extended my mini fridge to hold 4 kegs. Really worked out well, and it only took me a few hours. I still say torpedo kegs fermenters are wave of the future.

 

[LittleRiver]

I like that Occam's Razor approach!
Have done a lot of them like that? How did it turn out?

I started out purging liquid filled kegs with bottled CO2, but after the first time I purged with fermentation gas it worked so well that I haven't done it any other way since.

I tried transferring with bottled CO2 once, but there's no real advantage to it when compared to a gravity powered transfer. So I standardized on gravity powered transfers. I've done a lot of them, and not had any problems.



I purge my drain hose with bottled CO2 before I attach it. I have a plan to install some quick disconnects so the drain hose will also get purged by fermentation gas, but I haven't done that yet. It would just be inserted in the blow off line going to the keg during fermentation. For transfer I'll disconnect that section and move it to the spigot.

 

[Cato1507]

Yeah, I'd say the jury is still out. When you commit you definitely want to be happy with it. That includes a provision for an FC that will fit the fermenter.

I think the SS brew bucket (and alikes) are fine, but the aspect ratio (steepness) of the "cone" is not enough for dropping trub. IMO, it's a pretty much useless "feature."
You want to make sure there's a port in the lid to add stuff (dry hops) while flushing CO2 in through another port. That CO2 "nipple" should also allow you to do closed transfers.
With good care a stainless bucket should last forever.

The issue with metal buckets is you can't see inside without removing the lid, that could make racking a bit more unpredictable. I guess you could peek through a wide enough port in the lid and a flashlight perhaps.

The issue with plastic fermenters is being more scratch prone, having mould seams, or other protrusions. Spending $150-200 on a PET fermenter is a bit crazy, IMO. Looks are immaterial, you need to cover them up anyway, or better yet, stick in an FC.

Certainly each to his own but in regard to the brew bucket, I position my racking arm even with the top of the cone, which allows me to draw clear beer just above the trub.
The 7 gal chronical lid fits the brew bucket which has a port for dry hopping blow off, etc.

I've never had the need for the option of the chronical lid but those and many other options are available if one wants it.
I guess thats part of the fun in brewing, is that you can buy as much or as little gear and still produce competition quality beer.

 

[Andrew7447]

For ipas, pressure fermenting has been by far the best and biggest change ive ever made ever. So to me if it cant hold pressure its not worth a dime to me anymore.

 

[ILMSTMF]

For ipas, pressure fermenting has been by far the best and biggest change ive ever made ever. So to me if it cant hold pressure its not worth a dime to me anymore.

Much of what I produce. Pressure fermenting... I've heard of it, read a little, but didn't care to go further because I don't have the gear to do it.
Before, the goal was primarily to do a closed transfer. (Oh, and O2-free dry hop additions). Hence, the desire to change gear. But your point about pressure fermenting has me intrigued. I will read up to learn the benefits, thanks.

 

[ILMSTMF]

For ipas, pressure fermenting has been by far the best and biggest change ive ever made ever.

OK, one quick point I found was that pressure fermenting could aid in preserving aroma since less blowing off would occur. If that's true, I'm sold. I always yearn for the aroma to jump out of the glass. I did a Pliny clone recently and she was lovely but still... I've had commercial beer from bottles that had more prominent aromatics. Very frustrating.

 

[Andrew7447]

OK, one quick point I found was that pressure fermenting could aid in preserving aroma since less blowing off would occur. If that's true, I'm sold. I always yearn for the aroma to jump out of the glass. I did a Pliny clone recently and she was lovely but still... I've had commercial beer from bottles that had more prominent aromatics. Very frustrating.

In my experience it is true. I've done atleast the same dam ipa recipe 50 times with pressure transfers. Then I did it ONCE under pressure ferment and it was by far the best ipa I ever made period.

 

[ILMSTMF]

In my experience it is true. I've done atleast the same dam ipa recipe 50 times with pressure transfers. Then I did it ONCE under pressure ferment and it was by far the best ipa I ever made period.

Dear God Almighty help us...

Anyone else care to weigh in? This would narrow down my options to eliminate, as far as I can tell...

• SS Brew Bucket
• Anvil
• Speidel
• Delta Fermtank
• Maybe the Fermonster but it looks like our friend @Noob_Brewer has figured out a way to ferment under pressure so...?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Dear God Almighty help us...

Anyone else care to weigh in? This would narrow down my options to eliminate, as far as I can tell...

• SS Brew Bucket
• Anvil
• Speidel
• Delta Fermtank
• Maybe the Fermonster but it looks like our friend @Noob_Brewer has figured out a way to ferment under pressure so...?

Appreciate the shout out, but I do not ferment under pressure at all lol. During fermentation I will hook up the gas post from the fermonster and allow the CO2 generated from the fermentation to purge a keg full of star san though. The system I am using does allow for closed transfers and Im still gravity transferring from the FV to the serving keg but I know others will transfer under about ~8PSI pushing the liquid to keg from the CO2 tank. In my processes, I never get above 5PSI and thats only when Im gravity transferring to keg. The fermonster is not rated to undergo pressure and with the modified lid Im using you CAN load it to about 10PSI but Ive never had the guts to push it. I think @flintoid HAS used this same system Im using to ferment under pressure though at around 10-15PSI.