St Bernardus bottle cultured yeast for ABT 12 attempt

[sid_marx]

BTW I've had between 85-86% apparent attenuation using the bottle culture in high gravity beers, starting fermentation around 16-18c and finishing 28-32c.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

BuffaloBeer1, I can't speak for using Prior, I stepped up a culture from Pater 6. The reason I used the Pater is that it has the lowest abv of the St Bernardus beers - but to be honest I think all the St Bernardus beers utilise the same strain.
I've since used the yeast in 2 quads and a tripel trying to get as close to the St Bernardus ABT 12 and Tripel as possible.
I've been very happy with the results. I drink the St Bernardus ABT12 & tripels fairly regularly and I'm 95% sure that the yeast I have is the yeast found in all 33cl bottles of St Bernardus.
You won't get enough healthy yeast for a batch without stepping up to a good starter. There's a good how to article here. There's also a good podcast from Jamil available for download on bottle harvesting here.
Good luck!

Thanks for the input. I'm planning on getting to this at the end of the summer while its still warm enough to push the fermentation temps for the Belgians. Are you willing to share the recipe you have found the most success with?

 

[sid_marx]

Thanks for the input. I'm planning on getting to this at the end of the summer while its still warm enough to push the fermentation temps for the Belgians. Are you willing to share the recipe you have found the most success with?

Sure, happy to share my recipe... in metric I'm afraid.

For 19 litres

Pilsner malt 8500g
Torrified wheat 500g
Biscuit malt 400g
Caramunich II malt 400g
Aromatic malt 100g
Special B malt 100g
Carafa III malt 70g
800g Dark Belgian candi syrup
Step mash 60 minutes @ 60c, 45 minutes @ 65c
70 minute boil
12g chinook 9.6 Alpha Acid for 70 minutes
10g chinook for 20 minutes
1086 Original gravity
Pitched yeast from 4 litre starter into 16c, well aerated wort
Raised to 32c over 10 days
1011 terminal gravity
Bottled after 25 days to 3 volumes of CO2, 9.85 ABV

The key to making good trappist ale in my opinion is good yeast management... technically St Bernardus isn't Trappist, but as far as I'm concerned in spirit it's as Trappist as they come. And really, in true Trappist tradition you could probably make this beer with just Pilsner malt (no specialties) and a bit more dark candi... but I haven't tested that yet.

Disclaimer: I use an unconventional hop for this recipe because I don't think that the hop flavour/aroma character is particularly material to the finished product. Hops is well in the background and is there for bitterness primarily.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Thank you. Metric is no problem at all, especially when you can find converters on line quickly. If I end up brewing this recipe or something similar, I'll post my results with a focus on the yeast. Although the annoying part is having to wait to get the true results. Thanks again. Cheers.

 

[Tropidolaemus]

Brewing is hard on the impatient!
I am currently stepping up yeast from a Rochefort 6. Last time I used the 10 and cultured to agar. That resulted in a single colony of yeast on the plate! I was able to step that up and I mixed it with WLP500 for a batch of a Blonde Ale. The Rochefort yeast flavor was definitely dominant. I am hoping to step the yeast up enough for a full batch this time. I am going to try a Rochefort 10 clone. I have done it a a partial mash in the past with good results. This time I'll be doing all grain. We'll see how it turns out this time!

 

[rockdemon]

Really interresting to hear that you actually can get good yeast from bernardus. I was there 3 weeks ago and asked and they said they use another yeast for bottling to keep the st. sixtus secret. The yeast was cultured at a univeristy in brussels or something like that. They were quite cocky about that they still use the same yeast but westy use westmalle.
Ive always thought that prior 8 is the best dark beer in the world so to be able to get that yeast woule be totally awesome. Its been awhile since someone posted in this thread but have you gotten good results harvesting? I got a bunch of .75L bottles of tripel, prior and abt but no pater. I didnt even think of harvesting until now... Even though they use another yeast for bottle refermentation you could probably get some of their esters buy harvesting i guiess...

 

[jaapie]

Really interresting to hear that you actually can get good yeast from bernardus. I was there 3 weeks ago and asked and they said they use another yeast for bottling to keep the st. sixtus secret. The yeast was cultured at a univeristy in brussels or something like that. They were quite cocky about that they still use the same yeast but westy use westmalle.
Ive always thought that prior 8 is the best dark beer in the world so to be able to get that yeast woule be totally awesome. Its been awhile since someone posted in this thread but have you gotten good results harvesting? I got a bunch of .75L bottles of tripel, prior and abt but no pater. I didnt even think of harvesting until now... Even though they use another yeast for bottle refermentation you could probably get some of their esters buy harvesting i guiess...

It works, you can get it from the bottle. It might be a different strain than their normal work horse if that is what they state, but it produces great beer. I tried to email them several times, but never heard anything back. Do they filter their beer before packaging?

 

[rockdemon]

Cant really remember. The other breweries i visited filtered their beer. But thosr beer are clear, st bernardus tripel is cloudy so i assume they dont filter them...


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rockdemon]

It works, you can get it from the bottle. It might be a different strain than their normal work horse if that is what they state, but it produces great beer. I tried to email them several times, but never heard anything back. Do they filter their beer before packaging?

2 days ago i took the bottom stuff from one .75L tripel and one .75l prior and added it to a 2 cup starter with 1030 gravity. No activity yet but we´ll see what happens. Ill add more wort in a day or two.

 

[rockdemon]

Sure, happy to share my recipe... in metric I'm afraid.

For 19 litres

Pilsner malt 8500g
Torrified wheat 500g
Biscuit malt 400g
Caramunich II malt 400g
Aromatic malt 100g
Special B malt 100g
Carafa III malt 70g
800g Dark Belgian candi syrup
Step mash 60 minutes @ 60c, 45 minutes @ 65c
70 minute boil
12g chinook 9.6 Alpha Acid for 70 minutes
10g chinook for 20 minutes
1086 Original gravity
Pitched yeast from 4 litre starter into 16c, well aerated wort
Raised to 32c over 10 days
1011 terminal gravity
Bottled after 25 days to 3 volumes of CO2, 9.85 ABV

The key to making good trappist ale in my opinion is good yeast management... technically St Bernardus isn't Trappist, but as far as I'm concerned in spirit it's as Trappist as they come. And really, in true Trappist tradition you could probably make this beer with just Pilsner malt (no specialties) and a bit more dark candi... but I haven't tested that yet.

Disclaimer: I use an unconventional hop for this recipe because I don't think that the hop flavour/aroma character is particularly material to the finished product. Hops is well in the background and is there for bitterness primarily.

I might give this recipe i try if i can get enough yeast. fermenting at 32 degrees? guess youre skipping secondary with this one?

 

[Bobo1898]

If I'm understanding this, it sounds like whatever is in the pater 6 is close to the primary strain?

I harvested from three pater 6 bottles several weeks back.

Tossed the bottom of those bottles in a 200ml starter with 10g of DME. Let it run for a week and then dumped that into another 200ml starter with 10g of DME. Let that run for three days, then cold crashed for two weeks.

Decanted and then pitched into a traditional 500ml starter on a stir plate. Let that run through fermentation and then pitched the whole thing into 1000ml starter, also on a stir plate. Let that run through fermentation and now I'm cold crashing it, probably for another week.

I think I'm going to brew a quad that's close to the Abt 12 in two weeks, so I'll decant my starter and dump the yeast into a 1500ml starter for brew day.

Would you say that's enough? Or should I make an additional 1500ml starter before my brew starter? I only have a 2L flask, so I can't make my starters bigger than 1500ml. Most clone recipe's have the OG around 1.103 or more but I think St. Bernardus has theirs at 1.090-something? Wonder if this will bring it down towards 1.011.

I'm excited to try this mystery strain. I would think that if they bottled all their beers with a lager yeast, that using this at ale temps for primary fermentation would create unwanted flavors. But it sounds like it's been making great beer for some of you?

 

[rockdemon]

If I'm understanding this, it sounds like whatever is in the pater 6 is close to the primary strain?

I harvested from three pater 6 bottles several weeks back.

Tossed the bottom of those bottles in a 200ml starter with 10g of DME. Let it run for a week and then dumped that into another 200ml starter with 10g of DME. Let that run for three days, then cold crashed for two weeks.

Decanted and then pitched into a traditional 500ml starter on a stir plate. Let that run through fermentation and then pitched the whole thing into 1000ml starter, also on a stir plate. Let that run through fermentation and now I'm cold crashing it, probably for another week.

I think I'm going to brew a quad that's close to the Abt 12 in two weeks, so I'll decant my starter and dump the yeast into a 1500ml starter for brew day.

Would you say that's enough? Or should I make an additional 1500ml starter before my brew starter? I only have a 2L flask, so I can't make my starters bigger than 1500ml. Most clone recipe's have the OG around 1.103 or more but I think St. Bernardus has theirs at 1.090-something? Wonder if this will bring it down towards 1.011.

I'm excited to try this mystery strain. I would think that if they bottled all their beers with a lager yeast, that using this at ale temps for primary fermentation would create unwanted flavors. But it sounds like it's been making great beer for some of you?

Yeah I used yeast from fresh pater bottles and that yeast worked great, almost too great. It attenuated everything like crazy and really gave that st b. aroma. they said at the brewery that they use different yeast for fermentation but whatever that yeast is it seems great. If i would get my hands on fresh bottles again i would deffinitely harvest it!

 

[Bobo1898]

Yeah I used yeast from fresh pater bottles and that yeast worked great, almost too great. It attenuated everything like crazy and really gave that st b. aroma. they said at the brewery that they use different yeast for fermentation but whatever that yeast is it seems great. If i would get my hands on fresh bottles again i would deffinitely harvest it!

Great, can't wait to brew with it!

Any recommendation on whether I know I have enough?

 

[m00ps]

Great, can't wait to brew with it!

Any recommendation on whether I know I have enough?

Split the starter into different vessels like growlers. This si what I do when I need more than my 2L can fit

you can also decant, and add fresh wort on top to boost it a bit more in the one vessel

 

[Bobo1898]

One month into fermentation and my gravity reached 1.006 from an OG of 1.094! Obviously I have two more months of conditioning but that Bernardus aroma is ever so prominent! Smells delicious!

I wish I saved some of the pater 6 yeast for another batch. I'll probably bottle with Westmalle yeast to make things easier on myself for bottle conditioning.

Happy New Year!!!

 

[rockdemon]

One month into fermentation and my gravity reached 1.006 from an OG of 1.094! Obviously I have two more months of conditioning but that Bernardus aroma is ever so prominent! Smells delicious!

I wish I saved some of the pater 6 yeast for another batch. I'll probably bottle with Westmalle yeast to make things easier on myself for bottle conditioning.

Happy New Year!!!

I need to get my hands on some pater 6 again! I wonder why that yeast is so aggressive, maybe its a mix of the sixtus yeast and some kind of bottling yeast? When I used it my dubbel went from 1080-1005. Do they still sell that special St B. Blonde in the states? thats even lower abv and should be great for harvesting!

 

[Bobo1898]

Do they still sell that special St B. Blonde in the states? thats even lower abv and should be great for harvesting!

I assume you're referring to the Extra 4. Yes they do! I have one left in my fridge! It's probably perfect for harvesting.

 

[rockdemon]

I assume you're referring to the Extra 4. Yes they do! I have one left in my fridge! It's probably perfect for harvesting.

Is it any good? They only exported that beer to the states as far as i know, not even sure if they sell it in belgium, dont think so.
They released Chimay Doree Goud(4.8% blond) here in sweden last year and it was quite dissapointing and i was kind of hoping that St B 4 would be a dissapointment aswell so that im not missing out on anything

 

[Bobo1898]

Is it any good?

It definitely suits the style. Very crisp. I imagine it's very refreshing in the spring. But I prefer the dubbel and quadrupel styles myself. I'd love to try the Tripel at some point. I don't seem to find them on the shelf where I'm at. I had no idea the Extra 4 was only shipped to the states? I do remember reading they discontinued it for a while.

 

[rockdemon]

It definitely suits the style. Very crisp. I imagine it's very refreshing in the spring. But I prefer the dubbel and quadrupel styles myself. I'd love to try the Tripel at some point. I don't seem to find them on the shelf where I'm at. I had no idea the Extra 4 was only shipped to the states? I do remember reading they discontinued it for a while.

the tripel is my favourite tripe, but on the other hand i think that prior 8 is the best dubbel aswell
I visited the brewery last year and they had built new equipment so that they could increase production with like 80% and it was all because of the demand from the us. So you guys will probably see st b everywhere soon!

 

[Bobo1898]

I visited the brewery last year and they had built new equipment so that they could increase production with like 80% and it was all because of the demand from the us. So you guys will probably see st b everywhere soon!

As long as it doesn't change the quality, I have no objections!

 

[Bobo1898]

I was just curious if anyone has tried this yeast with open fermentation?

 

[sid_marx]

Yep, I've used it a few times in open fermentation. Primary fermentation in a 50 litre stainless pot with lid. Moved to a 23 litre glass carboy for secondary. Worked well for me.

 

[Bobo1898]

Just a quick update on my progress if anyone was interested:

Had the beer in secondary at around 45-50 degrees F. I know that a 5 degree swing might not be ideal but I don't have a controlled environment yet. This sat for 60 days or so. I then brought the temp up to 73 degrees over the course of three days so I can bottle.

Gravity dropped two more points at bottling time, from 1.006 to 1.004. This puts me at 12% ABV. I assume this must be the lager yeast they bottle with that brought it down some? Some of the aroma faded a bit in contrast to when I transferred to secondary, but it's still there. I pitched Westmalle's yeast at bottling and primed for 3.0 volumes of co2. In hindsight, I kinda wish I primed a little bit more but I'm sure 3.0 is fine.

Today marks two weeks in the bottle at 75 degrees. It's not even close to being carbonated. There wasn't really any pressure upon opening. I assume that this will need plenty of time in the bottle. I will say it tasted pretty good for a flat beer. Don't really want to judge it until it's fully carbed. I guess I'll give this another month before I try any more.

 

[badlee]

Is there any update on this?
Any news on the tripel yeast?
I ask about the tripel yeast as it was mentioned early on AND tripel and abt are the only two I can get here in Thailand.

 

[Bobo1898]

Is there any update on this?

Still not fully carbed. Really wish I primed closer to 4.5 volumes of CO2. March bottles were completely flat. June bottles had a very small "pst" upon opening. Little to no carbonation. Probably gonna open again in November.

As for the tripel, I say give it a go. But try to use the 375ml/11oz bottles rather than the large ones. The bigger bottles are composed off-site, whereas the smaller bottles are filled at the brewery.

 

[Bobo1898]

Probably gonna open again in November.

I will note that the taste in June was fairly solid. It's completely it's own quadrupel. Wasn't as reminiscent of Bernardus as it was before going into secondary. Perhaps the lower temperature conditioning took that away. We'll see how it goes whenever, or if, it ever fully carbs.

 

[badlee]

Thanks very much for that.
I can only get the 330 bottles.
Will give it a go

 

[Bobo1898]

More than likely, my last update on my batch.

My bottles never fully carbed at 3.0 volumes of CO2. They've been in the bottle since March of this year.

I'm going to assume I didn't prime high enough. There is a slight release in pressure on opening the bottle, but not much.

The beer tastes really great even though it's practically flat! Would love to have the whole experience with it fully carbed but it seems that won't be the case.