St Bernardus bottle cultured yeast for ABT 12 attempt

[sid_marx]

Stan Hieronymus states in BLAM that St Bernardus utilizes a second yeast for bottle conditioning.

After culturing from a bottle of Pater 6 I suspect that the yeast used to carbonate the 33cl bottles, which again according to BLAM are bottled at the brewery (unlike the 75cl which are bottled offsite) is in fact the primary strain.

I recently used this yeast to ferment a quad based closely on the westvleteren pious new world recipe and so far the test batch tastes and smells much more like St Bernardus ABT 12 than other beers I've brewed to the same recipe using Wyeast 3787 (Westmalle).

I'd be interested to know whether others have used bottle cultured St Bernardus and what the results were like.

 

[jaapie]

Hi Sid Marx, I am going to do a similar test. I will let you know what happens. Jasper

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Interested to hear what comes from this. Was planning on brewing a big quad to age in a barrel for next winter and just cultured some bernardus. Subd

 

[jaapie]

ok, so I have three cultures growing, the Prior, the Pater, and the tripel. Since they came from a bottle, I dumped them in some media and have them shaking at 30 C to revive the dregs. If I look at them under the microscope, the strains all look identical cell-wise. This is on a 200000 dollar microscope, so I have a good view what is going on. Not just cell-shape but also inner-cell contrast. Some yeasts have lots of intracellular structures that are easily visible, some are almost transparent. These fall in the latter category. I would find it surprising that this brewery would bottle with another strain, especially when we are talking about a lighter beer like Pater that would obviously totally change character if some other yeast is doing its thing when its bottle conditioning. To be continued.

 

[mack25]

Very interested in this too, because I've been saving a bottle of this to culture the yeast myself.

 

[jaapie]

Quick bump, preliminary analysis of colonies seems to indicate that Prior and Pater are the same (are visually similar) and that Tripel stands out. Tripel grew a little faster it seems, but to be sure Ill wait until after the weekend to make definite conclusions. I also grew up Westvleteren from the blonde, and the cells are kind of elongated. I will post pictures of the cells, and of the colonies, next week.

 

[jaapie]

Ok as promised some info on the cultures. The St. Bernardus tripel I want to do again because it looks kind of bacterial - I could not find any normal yeast. The culture never really took off, I will give it one more shot. The St. Bernardus Prior colony can be found here and a micrograph of the cells here; the St. Bernardus Pater colony can be found here and the cells here. The "Westvleteren Blond" (So actually the westmalle strain) can be found here. Sorry if the contrast is a little shoddy I did not subtract any background. Obviously the cells are different between the westmalle and the St. B strains - I do not dare to go any further. I am going to ferment some, and as Sid Marx pointed out, St. B has a very specific flavor/aroma. I would be really surprised if they decided to bottle ferment their lighter (Pater) beer with another strain, but who knows. To be continued.

 

[jaapie]

Yes its me again trying to keep this going. This weekend a new startup brewery in the DC area is going to brew a pilot batch this weekend (Belgian Pale Ale) and ferment with the St. Bernardus Pater strain. I grew up a 2L culture whilst shaking and cell numbers are very high. I could not smell the typical smell when it grew aerobically, but I hope it will be clear soon what is going on.

 

[sid_marx]

Hi Jasper,

I'm really pleased that someone else is working on this and am really interested to hear more about your results - especially the pilot batch of Belgian Pale Ale.

I cracked my first bottle of quad from the 5 gallon batch made with the pater 6 cultured yeast a couple of days ago.

I really like the flavour of this beer. In fact I've brewed similar recipes using Westmalle, Chimay and Unibroue yeasts and I like this more at just 3 weeks in the bottle than any of the others I've done. Which is weird since the others were still quite green at 3 weeks.

Can post the recipe if anyone is interested. It's not a clone of St Bernardus ABT 12 but I think that it has the hallmarks of the yeast if not the base.

 

[BuenaCerveza]

I really appreciate your work on this Jasper. I'm really interested in yeast and trying to learn as much as possible, and am obsessed with some of the Trappist ales and St. B ABT 12.

Thanks for keeping us posted (as well as your blog)!

 

[rayfound]

I have a bottle of abt12... I may have to see if I can bring the yeast to life and start a Bernardus culture. I'm planning a beer in their following - base malt, sugar, and a black malt for aging. This would obviously be the right thing to use for yeast...

 

[jaapie]

I have a bottle of abt12... I may have to see if I can bring the yeast to life and start a Bernardus culture. I'm planning a beer in their following - base malt, sugar, and a black malt for aging. This would obviously be the right thing to use for yeast...

Well that is the thing we are trying to figure out.

 

[rayfound]

Well that is the thing we are trying to figure out.

Yeah... my comment added very little value.

Hopefully I can report back next week with some results of my own - though I don't have a microscope, so I will be going based on the "Does it look like yeast?" criteria.

 

[jaapie]

Did not mean it in a bad way. Let us know how it smells when it ferments as well.

 

[rayfound]

Did not mean it in a bad way. Let us know how it smells when it ferments as well.

Not good so far. Never cultured dregs before, but so far, it still smells like wort, not yeasty-fermentation/starter smell.

Can't help but assume I've got dead/pasteurized dregs.

 

[jaapie]

OK, I have the St. Bernardus Tripel yeast now as well. Similar as the other two (Prior and Pater). Emailed the brewery twice (in Dutch) but got no reply. The DC brewery decided to go for the Leuven strain instead of my yeast prop of the Pater strain, kind of a bummer, but they promised that they will use the strain soon. I will start a fermentation soon myself, after the craft brewers conference this week. I'll keep you posted on what happens.

 

[jaapie]

OK, we brewed a a homebrew batch using the St. Bernardus Pater strain, side by side with Schelde yeast, this Sunday. The beer is a Belgian Pale for a future collaboration between Lost Rhino brewing co and Hellbender Brewing Co. We are trying different yeasts and I am curious what this one will do. I will keep you guys posted on the taste and comparison to the Pater itself.

 

[kaz4121]

The St. Bernardus yeast is likely a Westmalle decedent, since Westvleteren used to contract brew through St. B's.

One thing to consider is the fermentation temperatures. IIRC, Brew Like A Monk claims three trappist breweries use the Westmalle Yeast - the key is that they all have a different fermentation regimen.

 

[jaapie]

@kaz4121 - I totally agree, but I can only do one temp right now. Brew like a monk also states they use a different yeast for botteling at St. B, and that is what we are trying to figure out. I cannot imagine they bottle with another strain for a not so heavy beer as the Pater, but who knows. The phenolics of the St. Bernardus strain is very different and hopefully will stand out.

 

[sicklesr]

Do you know if the US release of the Westy 12's were bottle condiditoned and non-pasturized?

My brother was lucky enough to grab a brick, and after we sampled one, he gave me a bottle to have for myself. It's still sitting in cellar conditions... Would I be able to culture dregs from this?

 

[kaz4121]

@kaz4121 - I totally agree, but I can only do one temp right now. Brew like a monk also states they use a different yeast for botteling at St. B, and that is what we are trying to figure out. I cannot imagine they bottle with another strain for a not so heavy beer as the Pater, but who knows. The phenolics of the St. Bernardus strain is very different and hopefully will stand out.

Makes sense to me.

 

[jaapie]

Do you know if the US release of the Westy 12's were bottle condiditoned and non-pasturized?

My brother was lucky enough to grab a brick, and after we sampled one, he gave me a bottle to have for myself. It's still sitting in cellar conditions... Would I be able to culture dregs from this?

Ok - here it gets a little murky. I know that BLAM states that Achel, Westvleteren and Westmalle all use the Westmalle strain. I cultured the Achel blond and Westvleteren blond, and they look vastly different under the microscope. Westvleteren blond cells are somewhat elongated, and the Achel blond cells are much more round, normal Sacch. looking. I have no westmalle to compare it to. So yes you will get something out of it, but what it is, I do not know, I do not know if either one of them use a different bottling yeast or not. Westmalle doesnt I believe.

 

[sicklesr]

Cool. Good info to know.

I'm not too concerned about getting the same exact beer as the Westy... I'd just like to use a true Trappist yeast. I plan on breaking out the Westy in the next few weeks. I'll follow up back here if I could get a starter out of it.

 

[jaapie]

OK, I have a blonde crash cooling right now with the St. Bernardus yeast. This was the prior strain. It fermented fast (at room temp) from ~1.070 to 1.012 in a few days. The yeast falls out really slow, and it definitely has the typical aromatics. Another trial with the Pater did not ferment as well, might have been just an unfortunate isolate. It needs some more time but is promising. Slight sulfur, a sort of wild note to it. To be continued.

 

[jaapie]

Ok, the brewery I moonlight in decided to brew their belgian beers (a brown, sort of a dubbel, but not 100% to style, and a blonde) with the St. Bernardus yeast because they were impressed with the profile. Very phenolic (fermented at ~75F), and it has this characteristic St. B smell to it. I actually like it over the St. B. prior (where the yeast was from). All in all a success, and it comes very close.

 

[sicklesr]

Where did they get the starter from? Was it bottle cultured or is there some sort of commercially availible yest?

I can't stop brewing Belgians.

 

[jaapie]

330ml bottle St. Bernardus Prior

 

[sicklesr]

330ml bottle St. Bernardus Prior

Thanks Jaapie. I'll be trying this with the westy 12. Won't be for a few weeks but I'll swing back around and let you all know what's going on!

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

So if I am reading this correctly, the best chance I have for brewing a clone or something similar to the St. B 12 is to culture yeast from the Prior. Is that correct?

If so, am I better off taking the dregs from a few bottles, or can I get enough for a 5 gal batch from just one bottle? I've never cultured yeast before; it the next thing for me to try in my learning the brew process.

 

[sid_marx]

BuffaloBeer1, I can't speak for using Prior, I stepped up a culture from Pater 6. The reason I used the Pater is that it has the lowest abv of the St Bernardus beers - but to be honest I think all the St Bernardus beers utilise the same strain.
I've since used the yeast in 2 quads and a tripel trying to get as close to the St Bernardus ABT 12 and Tripel as possible.
I've been very happy with the results. I drink the St Bernardus ABT12 & tripels fairly regularly and I'm 95% sure that the yeast I have is the yeast found in all 33cl bottles of St Bernardus.
You won't get enough healthy yeast for a batch without stepping up to a good starter. There's a good how to article here. There's also a good podcast from Jamil available for download on bottle harvesting here.
Good luck!