I just poured 42 bottles of HB Dunkelweizen down the drain

[MaxStout]

I can't remember the last time I poured out a whole batch of beer.

Tonight, after drinking the 5th or 6th bottle of home brew Dunkelweizen, I realized it's undrinkable. I tried to give it a chance, I really did. Smells like wet doggy, tastes like hot dog water. Fermented with Munich Classic, let the temps free-rise up to 70 or so. Otherwise, I did what I've done with countless brews before. Fastidious about sanitation, try to reduce oxidation as much as I can with bottling. Fresh ingredients. Even use the LODO trifecta to scavenge O2.

My last few brews have had the wet dog aroma, but tasted OK. This was the first where I got the meaty flavor too. Dunno what's going on. I've read that the meaty flavor is due to yeast autolysis. Didn't think that was likely at the homebrew scale, but here it is.

 

[Willy]

I can't remember the last time I poured out a whole batch of beer.

Tonight, after drinking the 5th or 6th bottle of home brew Dunkelweizen, I realized it's undrinkable. I tried to give it a chance, I really did. Smells like wet doggy, tastes like hot dog water. Fermented with Munich Classic, let the temps free-rise up to 70 or so. Otherwise, I did what I've done with countless brews before. Fastidious about sanitation, try to reduce oxidation as much as I can with bottling. Fresh ingredients. Even use the LODO trifecta to scavenge O2.

My last few brews have had the wet dog aroma, but tasted OK. This was the first where I got the meaty flavor too. Dunno what's going on. I've read that the meaty flavor is due to yeast autolysis. Didn't think that was likely at the homebrew scale, but here it is.

Sorry to hear that. It happens. For me about 1 out of 50 batches. About as much fun as losing a tank of CO2 due to a bad seal.

 

[tracer bullet]

My last few brews have had the wet dog aroma, but tasted OK.

Well, even if you aren't looking for solutions, you'll probably get conversation about it

Were you using the same hops each time, or the same bag of grain or something? Maybe one is "bad".

If not, you might consider a thorough cleaning of all the equipment, take apart every valve, outright replace every plastic item such as hoses or spigots...

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

Welll that bites the big weiner!
I made a blonde ale back when I was just getting started, my swamp cooler idea failed and the temp reached 90.. I bottled it anyway,,but calling it puke worty is a complement..i dumped the entire batch, then built a l egit cooling tower and chiller
Since then, I've only had one,"dumper" my grandson had a kit ftom his college days, it was over a year old, i knew better, but he begged me to brew it with him, I brewed it, WE drank it, truth be told, I should have dumped it..i have 6 bottles l left, I'm thinking of pouring down a chipmunk hole, it tastes like the bilge of my boat smells!
I'm sure you will review your notes and all will be right with the world..

 

[madscientist451]

A yeast re-pitch?
That’s all I can think of….

 

[mashdar]

Is the yeast a repitch? Could it be an infection?

Do commercial beers taste normal? Maybe a perceptual change?

 

[Pennine]

Always disappointing to dump all that hard work and patience.

Sounds like maybe a warm temp trend if the last few batches have had similar issues?

What do you do for water?

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

harvested yeast or fresh yeast?

maybe mix up the sanitizer with iodophor instead of starsan in case its an infection

sometimes glassware from the dishwasher tastes like wet dog. Are the glasses you are using handwashed or in the dishwasher?

 

[IslandLizard]

Ouch! Sad to read this...

Fermented with Munich Classic [...]
My last few brews have had the wet dog aroma, but tasted OK.

All using fresh yeast or repitches?

Can it be something harboring in the bottles?

 

[homebeerbrewer]

That’s alcohol abuse!

On a more serious note, you said the last few batches had a wet dog aroma. You should do a thorough cleaning of everything that touches the wort/beer after boiling. Replace anything with scratches. Replace anything plastic. Sounds like you have some kind of infection going on.

 

[estricklin]

Sorry to hear about this, it happens to all of us homebrewers. As the saying goes, your either a liar or haven't brewed enough batches yet.

Thanks for posting this, you never know what new homebrewer may come across this on google. I almost gave up brewing entirely in my early days because I had a string of bad batches.

We live to brew another day, and you've got lots of amazing batches ahead of you.

 

[MaxStout]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! This is frustrating, but I'm trying to work through it in my head. Something needs to change.

I pitched fresh, dry yeast, within its use-by date, rehydrated with Go-Ferm. I started using the Go-Ferm not too long ago. Could that be leaving something that breaks down into an off-flavor component? Next brew I'll rehydrate with plain water, or pitch dry.

Only plastic I have contacting cold-side beer is a bottling bucket and silicone tubing. After each use the spigot gets taken apart, cleaned, stored in a jar of Starsan until next time. On bottling day I put a gallon of Starsan in the bucket, shake it every so often, then dump it just before filling with beer. No scratches I can see inside.

The silicone tubing gets a thorough rinse and starsan rinse, but that might not be enough due to its porosity. Don't want to store it in Starsan as that corrodes the silicone. Maybe I should boil it. Same with the silicone tubing I use to rack from BK to FV.

I ferment in Brew Buckets and use a Cold Crash Guardian to collect extra CO2. I don't open the lid any time during ferm.

I try to keep bottles clean and sanitized. After pouring a beer I rinse 3 times, then another rinse with a few shakes, dump that, then squirt some Starsan inside, invert & drip-dry. I store them in boxes. On bottling day I dunk each in a bucket of Starsan, and set inverted in a FastRack. Caps get dunked in Starsan. I cap on foam with about 1/2" headspace.

Could be taste perception. My taste and smell had changed a little after I had Covid 2 years ago, so what I'm tasting and smelling could be some other off-flavor. However, commercial beer never has those off-flavors, so it's definitely something in my HB.

People I serve it to think it's ok, but they probably wouldn't comment anyway. I generally don't enter in comps, but maybe I should have an experienced brewer taste some.

My water is RO from a Buckeye system at home. Fairly new filters and TDS is around 4 ppm. I measure salt additions on a gram scale. Mash pH has always been well within range.

I've been using the LODO trifecta, but that has predated this new issue. I do a few of the LODO methods, and try to minimize stirring, splashing. I still can't help think that this is oxidation, even though this recent batch is fairly new. I found out in another thread that I can add a gram or so of AA per gallon at packaging. Might try that.

Grains and hops are fresh. I store grain in ziplocs placed inside gamma seal buckets in a cool location. Hops are vac-sealed and kept in the deep freeze. Dry yeast stays in the fridge.

 

[mashdar]

I notice your process doesn't include any cleaning agents - maybe you've got something forming biofilms?

If it was primarily in bottles, I'd expect variability from bottle to bottle. Ditto for short-contact in tubing/bucket, unless it was a huge dose.

Do you taste it while bottling? Curious when the flavor is developing.

 

[Snuffy]

Perhaps this is a style whose flavor profile benefits from some slight oxidation.

https://brulosophy.com/2017/04/10/t...ow-oxygen-brewing-method-exbeeriment-results/

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

maybe mix up the sanitizer with iodophor instead of starsan in case its an infection

Earlier this spring I had a couple of batches in a row seemed a little off. I replaced soft plastic tubing (but not bottling wands, spigots, or carboys), cleaned everything well, then sanitized with iodophor (normally I use StarSan). So far, no further problems.

 

[MaxStout]

I notice your process doesn't include any cleaning agents - maybe you've got something forming biofilms?

If it was primarily in bottles, I'd expect variability from bottle to bottle. Ditto for short-contact in tubing/bucket, unless it was a huge dose.

Do you taste it while bottling? Curious when the flavor is developing.

Forgot to mention the cleaning part--hot PBW wash and rinse. Ball valves disassembled, parts cleaned with a toothbrush or test tube brush with PBW. Sanitized and reassembled.

I always taste the hydro samples, never noticed off-flavors then.

Don't think it's bottles. All the beers have the off-flavor.

 

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Forgot to mention the cleaning part--hot PBW wash and rinse. Ball valves disassembled, parts cleaned with a toothbrush or test tube brush with PBW. Sanitized and reassembled.

I always taste the hydro samples, never noticed off-flavors then.

Don't think it's bottles. All the beers have the off-flavor.

Not unexpectedly you seem to have all the things covered. Kinda leaves oxidation but I'm sure you've got that covered too.

 

[day_trippr]

I would not use silicone tubing for any cold side process because of its porosity, preferring vinyl/pvc...

 

[Early8]

I feel your pain; I have been struggling with something similar. In more than fifteen years of kegging my beer I have not had such a problem; I didn't loose any beer, but I noticed an increasing off flavor. I am not going to call it a win yet, but I think I am on it now, I discovered a little bit of beerstone on a couple of seams on the dip tubes in my corny kegs. My cleaning and sanitizing regiment revolved around hot PBW and hot rinsing along with starsan. I am realizing that the beerstone seemed to have managed to survive that in my environment somehow. Beerstone is new to me, so I pivoted to an acid soak after the PBW and am working that process through all of my gear now. I also took the opportunity to change all of my lines and rebuild my regulators. I have no idea if this is useful, but I am sharing in the even that it might be.

 

[BongoYodeler]

@MaxStout I can't think to suggest anything that's not already been covered here.

I've recently drank three of your homebrews - a doppelbock, an oatmeal stout, and a malt liquor. They all tasted very good to me and none of them had a wet dog aroma or any off flavors that I could detect. Did you personally notice this on any of these three?

 

[IslandLizard]

I try to keep bottles clean and sanitized. After pouring a beer I rinse 3 times, then another rinse with a few shakes, dump that, then squirt some Starsan inside, invert & drip-dry. I store them in boxes. On bottling day I dunk each in a bucket of Starsan, and set inverted in a FastRack. Caps get dunked in Starsan. I cap on foam with about 1/2" headspace.

These bottles never get brushed inside?
Or cleaned with an alkaline (homemade) PBW solution?

Same for your fermentation buckets and bottling bucket?
As you know, Starsan is only a sanitizer, not a cleaner.

 

[MaxStout]

These bottles never get brushed inside?
Or cleaned with an alkaline (homemade) PBW solution?

Same for your fermentation buckets and bottling bucket?
As you know, Starsan is only a sanitizer, not a cleaner.

I don't brush the bottles, just the 3 rinses, a shake, and Starsan, which I do soon after pouring a beer.

Fermenter gets hot PBW soak after each use. I don't do that for the bottling bucket, but should. Good point.

I would not use silicone tubing for any cold side process because of its porosity, preferring vinyl/pvc...

Good point. I have a bunch of Bevlex tubing. I'll use some of that.

@MaxStout I can't think to suggest anything that's not already been covered here.

I've recently drank three of your homebrews - a doppelbock, an oatmeal stout, and a malt liquor. They all tasted very good to me and none of them had a wet dog aroma or any off flavors that I could detect. Did you personally notice this on any of these three?

I only noticed the wet dog effect in the malt liquor, albeit faintly. The Doppelbock and oatmeal stout seem fine to me. Good to know you don't detect anything. Maybe my sense of smell/taste.
The Dunkelweizen I dumped was the first to have the hot dog water taste, in addition to wet dog smell.

 

[madscientist451]

When I bottle, which is seldom these days, each bottle is visually inspected by holding the bottom of the bottle in the direction of a bright light and looking through the opening. Sometimes, just rinsing isn’t good enough. I also bottle directly from the fermenter and use carb drops. Bottling buckets, in my opinion, can be a big source for homebrew problems. These days I only bottle high ABV barley wine and similar beverages. I’ve also started using kegland PET plastic kegs for smaller projects. Kegging has pretty much solved all the off flavor problems I had experienced in the past.

 

[IslandLizard]

Good point. I have a bunch of Bevlex tubing. I'll use some of that.

Thin-wall tubing is much more flexible, and not as springy and heavy.
I use regular thin-wall vinyl tubing for racking, Kuriyama (from my brew store) being my preference for clarity and flexibility.

The other bonus of thin-wall vinyl tubing is that the next size (up or down) fit well into each other, making quick on the fly adapters.

Now silicone tubing can be boiled in PBW. Or cleaned by hot recirculation, which may still benefit from a tubing brush, though.

 

[tracer bullet]

I only noticed the wet dog effect in the malt liquor

You mentioned the last few brews, I was thinking a variety of beer. If it's just the one, then it's a lot less worrisome. All the ideas are best practices but this sounds like a recipe thing, unless there's some other special process you do for it that you don't do on anything else.

 

[Pennine]

Hmm yeah covid or long covid may have that effect.

A couple other ideas chloramines are not removed from RO may be worth using sodium bisulfite in your water.

Your description and onset though make me think of an infection though?

 

[MaxStout]

You mentioned the last few brews, I was thinking a variety of beer. If it's just the one, then it's a lot less worrisome. All the ideas are best practices but this sounds like a recipe thing, unless there's some other special process you do for it that you don't do on anything else.

The malt liquor was the only beer of the three I gave to Bongo that had it. I've had some previous beers with the off-flavor.

 

[BongoYodeler]

The malt liquor was the only beer of the three I gave to Bongo that had it. I've had some previous beers with the off-flavor.

Now I wish I'd brought them home. My son and I split a bottle of each of your three HB's. Because my time left in MN was very limited, and I didn't have space in my luggage to bring home any beers, I left one of each with my son. His good friend is also a home-brewer and he is going to share them with him. I don't recall if my son mentioned it when we were all together recently, but his HB buddy actually was recently invited to Bad Weather Brewing (where we went), to brew one of his HB's on their system.

 

[MaxStout]

Lots of good ideas here, very helpful. Keep 'em coming.

While I can't isolate one source, I think there are a few things I need to be doing or doing better.

1. Oxidation. I need to be more careful with agitation hot side, and a mash cap may be in my future. Bottling puts me behind the 8-ball, but a good dose of AA at bottling might slow down oxidation. I'm already putting a little k-meta in, about 20ppm.

2. Cleaning. Got rid of silicone tubing for cold side, replaced with plastic. More rigorous cleaning of bottling bucket, FV, valves, etc. I'm thinking bottles aren't the culprit, but I should step up the cleaning and sanitizing of those anyway. I saw this in another thread and realized I have an unused kettle with drain valve that I can adapt. The night before bottling, heat up some PBW, fill bottles and let them soak. Next day, rinse and sanitize.

3. Better sanitizing. I need to be using iodophor in more places. Valves, tubing, bottle-filling tubes, etc., that have more nooks and crannies. I'm not overly concerned with discoloration.

 

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I need to be using iodophor in more places

I've always done a combination of it and star-san. Always seemed silly but it's not expensive and I've gotten used to things having turned orange. Maybe I'll keep doing it.

I need to do better at disassembling valves. I do it before I make an annual Imperial Stout, that one's too much time and money to screw up. The rest of the beers I kind of gamble with. Lucky so far but this thread is a really good reminder to not slack off (not that you have been, but I have).