SS Brewtech New Equipment Cleaning - Anyone else have trouble?

[Terminus]

A while back I bought two 14 gal. fermenters and a 3-vessel system from SS Brewtech. I read their cleaning instructions, and bought the supplies I needed, including the TSP, soft sponges, and some cleaning cloths. However, when I tried cleaning the equipment, the oils were extremely hard to get off. I would put hot water into the tanks with the proper amount of TSP mixture, and then run a 30 min CIP cycle. I would then stop the pump and put some serious elbow grease into wiping all the interior parts of the unitanks. Then I would run another 30 minute cycle of near boiling water CIP (I have a pump for this) to rinse the TSP and tank. Finally, I would check with a clean cloth to see if I would get residue of the oils. And I just kept getting residue. I repeated this cycle on each unitank approximately 7-8 times, chaning the TSP as needed. It took me two full days of my weekend doing nothing but trying to clean these tanks. At the end, I still got a bit of residue from one of the tanks. I only managed to get one tank properly cleaned.

The fact that a company would sell brand new brewing equipment that is not actually brew ready annoyed me beyond expression. I probably put about 12-14 total hours of cleaning to only end with one claned tank. Thinking about having to still clean the three other vessels and eventually attempt again to clean the second tank just completely discouraged me. I put off brewing, and let the equipment sit unsued. To this day I have not used it. I bought a Spike Solo+, which the company suggest you only clean with dish detergent. I've been wanting to attempt to clean them, and just wanted to see if other people had similar experience when cleaning new SS Brewtech equipment. Perhaps I am doing something wrong, or someone has a better approach. Mind you, I am very particular and meticulous as to how I do things. I try to be very detailed when I do something like this. Am I overthinking the need to have the equipment in practically pristine conditions?

 

[sibelman]

On the one hand, it seems SS Brewtech is not alone in shipping products that require pre-cleaning. On the other, your story of SO many cleaning cycles seems quite unexpected. Sorry you're having such trouble!

Maybe switch to a different cleaner (PBW, OxiClean?)

 

[bike2brew]

I made my TSP a bit stronger and put in reasonable effort to clean the residues. I don't think I fully achieved a spotless wipe down but it was close enough to begin brewing.

 

[shoengine]

Ever try dish soap?

 

[Willy]

PBW and very hot water should take care of it. Hotter the better.

Most SS stuff has a thin coat of oil on it when brand spanking new to prevent rust spots from ruining your day.

 

[Whisky River]

I’ve always had good results doing the initial cleaning/passivating with Barkeepers Friend.

I’m struggling to imagine the scenario where manual scrubbing would not remove the oil/grease. I can very easily imagine the scenario where CIP would be ineffective (I’m known to share my opinion that CIP is largely useless on the homebrew scale). Perhaps a picture or more detailed description of what the original gunk was, might be helpful.

 

[Broken Crow]

I’ve always had good results doing the initial cleaning/passivating with Barkeepers Friend.

^^ This! Or even just get it hot rinsing with hot water then sprinkle powdered laundry soap and use a blue (or gently use green) Scotch Brite, and do this twice followed by PBW.... provided the oil they used is one of the more common ones...but really; oil on stainless steel comes off best heated and manually scrubbed with some phosphate (which forms a daisy shaped molocule around the oil and lifts it away).

I’m known to share my opinion that CIP is largely useless on the homebrew scale

..I normally agree with you on everything, but I gotta disagree with this. From my reading over the years on here I'd say a slight majority of the folk who try out CIP systems either don't fully understand all the variables or they just don't wanna spend the cash on a proper implementation: I have yet to see a commercially available keg-washer for a homebrewer that includes a pump that is actually rated for the runtime at 150°..the temp that PBW ideally works in CIP. Most plastics aren't rated for those temps, yet I see simple weak pond-pumps put to the task and their users show up on here later looking for replacements or just questioining why it died so young. Most pond pumps lack the proper pressure output but they'll serve in a pinch...sometimes.
The other problem is the water temperature dropping off in use...The PBW should be kept heated, which isn't a problem CIP'ing your brew-rig, but with keg-washers it immediately starts to cool in use. Even with that though, people face long run times in rinsing because it seems that even many long time PBW users don't know that the rinse water should be at least as hot as the orginal temp if not hotter. My own CIP pump is rated to a max 154° so I use 130° water for about 20 minutes and I've done extensive comparisons to hand-scrubbed with gloves, very hot PBW and a Scotch Brite and found when properly implemented, the CIP is more effective than by hand. (note: I heat my rinse water to 150° and the rinse is done in just a few minutes). Getting a pump that has both the pressure and temperature capacity is expensive and the cheap pond pumps are no proper substitute but at best; will work for a time if you're lucky.
As a disabled person with reaching and repetitious-motion issues, I couldn't clean my kettle any other way..and believe me; I am a sanitation freak and went through the time, expense and pain to study and have a long-term solution that's been exhaustively tested.
But yeah; back to the OP: Scrub by hand at least a few times with a blue scotch brite and if not BKF, then some other powdered detergent.

 

[bike2brew]

PBW and very hot water should take care of it. Hotter the better.

Most SS stuff has a thin coat of oil on it when brand spanking new to prevent rust spots from ruining your day.

Yea, I should have added that I also added a PBW wash following my TSP treatment and a thorough rise, wipe with soft cloth, etc.

 

[Whisky River]

^^ This! Or even just get it hot rinsing with hot water then sprinkle powdered laundry soap and use a blue (or gently use green) Scotch Brite, and do this twice followed by PBW.... provided the oil they used is one of the more common ones...but really; oil on stainless steel comes off best heated and manually scrubbed with some phosphate (which forms a daisy shaped molocule around the oil and lifts it away).

..I normally agree with you on everything, but I gotta disagree with this. From my reading over the years on here I'd say a slight majority of the folk who try out CIP systems either don't fully understand all the variables or they just don't wanna spend the cash on a proper implementation: I have yet to see a commercially available keg-washer for a homebrewer that includes a pump that is actually rated for the runtime at 150°..the temp that PBW ideally works in CIP. Most plastics aren't rated for those temps, yet I see simple weak pond-pumps put to the task and their users show up on here later looking for replacements or just questioining why it died so young. Most pond pumps lack the proper pressure output but they'll serve in a pinch...sometimes.
The other problem is the water temperature dropping off in use...The PBW should be kept heated, which isn't a problem CIP'ing your brew-rig, but with keg-washers it immediately starts to cool in use. Even with that though, people face long run times in rinsing because it seems that even many long time PBW users don't know that the rinse water should be at least as hot as the orginal temp if not hotter. My own CIP pump is rated to a max 154° so I use 130° water for about 20 minutes and I've done extensive comparisons to hand-scrubbed with gloves, very hot PBW and a Scotch Brite and found when properly implemented, the CIP is more effective than by hand. (note: I heat my rinse water to 150° and the rinse is done in just a few minutes). Getting a pump that has both the pressure and temperature capacity is expensive and the cheap pond pumps are no proper substitute but at best; will work for a time if you're lucky.
As a disabled person with reaching and repetitious-motion issues, I couldn't clean my kettle any other way..and believe me; I am a sanitation freak and went through the time, expense and pain to study and have a long-term solution that's been exhaustively tested.
But yeah; back to the OP: Scrub by hand at least a few times with a blue scotch brite and if not BKF, then some other powdered detergent.

Crow I totally understand your use case and meant no disrespect by my statement. I tried to qualify my statement because I do believe there are a few times when CIP is the right solution, for reasons of mobility or when your equipment is to heavy to move or can’t be opened completely for cleaning.

However I think the Vast majority of people who go down the CIP rabbit hole are looking for a push button solution to cleaning their gear and for that use case I don’t think CIP is worth the effort. Almost all of the CIP systems fall short of their promises in the real world and still require hand washing to get rid of dried on deposits or biofilm that no amount of rinsing will dislodge. I totally agree that most set ups fail because they have too little flow, pressure and heat to do the job correctly. So for me, once you build a high flow, high pressure, high heat capable system, set it all up after each brew, run the cleaning cycle and the rinse cycle then disassemble it, and still have to double check the results/ manually touch up where it’s missed, for me, that’s not a better solution than 3 minutes of scrubbing.

But hey, maybe I’m just bitter because I still have to pre-wash my dishes before I put them in the “automatic dish-washing”machine!

 

[Broken Crow]

Crow I totally understand your use case and meant no disrespect by my statement. I tried to qualify my statement because I do believe there are a few times when CIP is the right solution, for reasons of mobility or when your equipment is to heavy to move or can’t be opened completely for cleaning.

However I think the Vast majority of people who go down the CIP rabbit hole are looking for a push button solution to cleaning their gear and for that use case I don’t think CIP is worth the effort. Almost all of the CIP systems fall short of their promises in the real world and still require hand washing to get rid of dried on deposits or biofilm that no amount of rinsing will dislodge. I totally agree that most set ups fail because they have too little flow, pressure and heat to do the job correctly. So for me, once you build a high flow, high pressure, high heat capable system, set it all up after each brew, run the cleaning cycle and the rinse cycle then disassemble it, and still have to double check the results/ manually touch up where it’s missed, for me, that’s not a better solution than 3 minutes of scrubbing.

But hey, maybe I’m just bitter because I still have to pre-wash my dishes before I put them in the “automatic dish-washing”machine!

I suspect we're still on the same page.... I've been drinking so I'm not gonna edit myself: I have no use whatsoever for laziness and yeah; too many loking for a pushbutton solution! We've all seen folk sign up to ask if they really have to wait more than a day to get drunk on the product of throwing bread-yeast into a pot of sugar-water and 'how can I do it better, faster'.
Even the pump I use for CIP myself is woefully less than up to the application: Temp tops out at 154°, pressure @ approx 55psi, needs space as it is submersible so I use it in a separate PET bucket which itself is only rated to about 130°. An ideal pump for CIP would be a high-temp diaphram pump, but they cost $800-$2300. The specific gear choices we all make wiegh in to wether CIP is for us or not as well: The cavities in a brew kettle you get with the otherwise marvellous triclamp fittings don't get a proper wash unless by hand, any weldless fittings will have 'shadows' that the stream never hits, and sight-gauges still need brush-cleaning, so yeah right there with you on that but; as to the film... I wouldn't have easily believed it if I hadn't seen for myself in many tests I did at home; 130° PBW through a 45psi CIP ball for 20 minutes followed by a 5 minute rinse of 150° water really does the same removal job as using a scotch brite, hot PBW and gloves for a wrist/elbow/shoulder aggrivating length of time.....examined side by side with 3500° and 5000°(color temperature...yeah; daylight and tungsten can reveal differences) and UV light as well as sense of touch... the scrubbed ones showed streaks. I take my cleaning very seriously, so yeah, I tested it that way, already with a bias of disbelief in CIP/hot PBW's efficacy and lo and behold I was converted! ...Mind you: I still believe "automatic dishwashers" are a craptastic waste of energy, money and space! There's one in my kitchen that came with the house when I bought it 21 years ago that was never connected and while I still have no intention of hooking it up, it did serve me well as a place to drain and dry and temporarily store my sanitized beer bottles and give me racks to carry them to my bottling area. Difficult dishes, such as pyrex or SS cookware go down to my basement and sit overnight in a large rectangular cooler full of my left-over PBW after which all the burned on crud is easily shed.
If you ever get an opportunity to use a pump with the proper temp and pressure rating for CIP, give it try and enjoy the surprise.

EDIT: I forgot the 'ultimate' test without lab equipment: A plain paper basket-style coffee filter (also an excellent lint-free sanitary wipe)..wipe the surface and let it dry: The hand scrubbed kegs filter showed slightly beer-toned discoloration and the CIP cleaned kegs showed nothing at all.