SS Brewtech 3V RIMS is it worth it?

[mongoose33]

I am going to take a few steps back and really think it out. I won't have a house for 3 or 4 months and living with my in laws until my house is finished. I think deep down inside I am worried I wont be able to brew until December or January... but it would be worse to buy something just to save time then a year into it I'm buying something new.

At this point my wife would probably kill me. I am selling all my gas gear now and starting over 100% from nothing besides my ss brewtech conical

I think that's a smart move for a variety of reasons. One is, if you're not sure, then you're not. Be sure, whatever decision you make.

Another is, if you're going to move, this is less to move. And in a new place, you have a chance to build it to the space you have, whereas doing something now may or may not fit effectively.

A third one is that you always want to ask where you want to be six months, a year from now. What choices are you going to wish, then, that you'd made now? That's why taking a step back makes sense.

Lastly is the sunk cost in stuff you end up replacing. I've upgraded my operation 2 or 3 times, and knowing where i am today, I wish I had some of those decisions back. Oh, they weren't wrong at the time, but who could have predicted that I'd have ended up with what I have? (One friend of mine says "I could have!").

I have a Blichmann Hellfire propane burner, a Jaded Hydra chiller, a few other things I plan to sell. I'll probably get 70 percent of what I have in them. That's not terrible, but you get the point.

 

[augiedoggy]

TBA from the direct heating of the wort, one is adding heat stress to the wort through the RIMS element. How much is the question though, this is the unknown due to the lack of studies in these scenarios. Although, with the correct setup, which includes an ULWD element, control of the power output to the element, and flow control this can be almost eliminated, still there’s direct heat being applied to the wort. Now, another argument is the ability to do multiple consecutive batches, but that is a convenient aspect, not brewing science. I am building a 2 vessel system because it fits my needs, but to say a 3 vessel system has no upside would be overlooking heat stress on your wort.

Watt density is important due to denaturing enzymes, This is why I use 6ft of 5/8 diameter cartridge heater to heat gently with only $3600w total on my 3bbl system... It heats so gently the heating element stays completely clean after brewing.

There are a number of things Ive read or been told that are bad for beer, like pumping it because of shear force and my understanding is this is why breweries often use VFD drives to contol pump speed instead of valves, This stuff it simply not discussed on this forum that I know of? is it because of lack of knowledge or the inconvenience and of having a pump with speed control (This is why I use pwm controlled DC pumps in many of my applications) or is it just one of those things that isnt tangeable enough for most to notice? and other things like conditioning the grain before milling is something Ive never seen a pro brewer do myself so of course I question its validity? Is it a workaround?

I think I kind of got lucky building my home system and my system at the brewpub... I was really tight on money so I made a lot of stuff myself and tried to come up with work arounds that would make the little tan dc pumps I use not clog.. Those workarounds along with the lower flowrate ended up being what I believe allows me to get 91% brewhouse efficiency. and get it with a .03 crush and no rice Hulls needed at that.

I redesigned my system many times going from herms at first to a tiny rims and then longer and loanger rims and even lower power longer rims which I descovered worked better than the higher power shorter elements with my flow rate...
So at the end of the day the system becomes its own hobby, some of us are always tinkering with. at the brewpub we get 85% efficiency so the system works well.. but im always curious to know whats different between this scaled up version of my home system and this one and why I consistently get about 85% vs 91?... its got to be one of the variables such as crush or flow speed.

 

[Paulaner]

watt density is important due to denaturing enzymes, This is why I use 6ft of 5/8 diameter cartridge heater to heat gently with only $3600w total on my 3bbl system... It heats so gently the heating element stays completely clean after brewing

These are amongst the reasons I’m going with a RIMS, but when talking about differences, HERMS is gentler on the heating of the wort.

Yup, shear forces are talked about quite a bit in Kunze along with conditioning the grain. The way conditioning is done on our level is a work around. On the commercial scale there are numerous setups/systems for this, too many to bring up. Now, if there were a way to have a hydromill on our scale, we'd be set, but then we would need a mash filter if we did this, now we're beyond what probably 95% of breweries in the US are operating with. I think the lack of discussion of shear force and heat stress are a little of all three items that you stated.

As for building your system, I'm not sure a budget is a good term to use or think about, this stuff adds up. I finally have everything purchased for my box, and I'm about at what I paid for my custom Stout kettles. Next, I gotta buy all the plumbing, it makes my head hurt thinking about this.

 

[Jako]

These are amongst the reasons I’m going with a RIMS, but when talking about differences, HERMS is gentler on the heating of the wort.

Yup, shear forces are talked about quite a bit in Kunze along with conditioning the grain. The way conditioning is done on our level is a work around. On the commercial scale there are numerous setups/systems for this, too many to bring up. Now, if there were a way to have a hydromill on our scale, we'd be set, but then we would need a mash filter if we did this, now we're beyond what probably 95% of breweries in the US are operating with. I think the lack of discussion of shear force and heat stress are a little of all three items that you stated.

As for building your system, I'm not sure a budget is a good term to use or think about, this stuff adds up. I finally have everything purchased for my box, and I'm about at what I paid for my custom Stout kettles. Next, I gotta buy all the plumbing, it makes my head hurt thinking about this.

yeah no kidding. i just need to take it step by step. i haven't seen anything on heat stress or shear forces until this tread. very interesting topics. i have never consider conditioning the malt as well.

 

[Paulaner]

Sooo what is TBA. I am lost in the sauce now. So far everyone has said make your own system. I feel like when you see that it probably has a lot of weight that goes along with it.

Thiobarbituric Acid Index, it's a measure of the thermal exposure of malt or wort. With a rising TBA there is a sharp decrease in the flavor stability of the beer.

 

[Jako]

Thiobarbituric Acid Index, it's a measure of the thermal exposure of malt or wort. With a rising TBA there is a sharp decrease in the flavor stability of the beer.

is this why some brewery's will use steam jackets to heat wort? you are heating the wort over a larger surface so you need lots of direct local heat if that makes any sense? or is it just more cost efficient to have a steam jacket kettle? On a home brew scale is it even worth thinking about this?