Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[eric19312]

Spike and Penguin are not engineering thier products to work together. I've had a ton of issues during cold crash with mine. I've effectively resigned to cold crashing down to 40F. No combinations of glycol temperatures, small temp drop steps, or ambient temperatures has been able to get me anywhere close to <35F on my beer. Additionally, the chiller itself drops a bunch of condensate all over my floor when it's struggling to keep temps down. It's infuriating for them to just point to each other after spending so much money on my system. Conveniently, I saw Penguin just released a chiller with a much larger glycol reservoir which I have been speculating is the main reason I can't hit my temps.

Cold crashing is the main reason I went with conical in a freezer over glycol in a coil route.

This is a long thread but if you are thinking about buying one of these there is some good experience shared in these pages. @mongoose33 described well his realization that he would need substantial insulation to get cold crashing to work well and I seem to remember him or someone else ended up building an insulated box to keep the conical in while crashing....

With conical in a freezer I have no issues cold crashing to sub 30F temperatures. I do have a small fan in my freezer and all that stainless steel surface area makes for excellent heat transfer. I use a dual probe dual stage temp controller to keep freezer from getting too cold when cold crashing but still can take my CF15 from 55F to 28F in less than a day. I've also had no issues with condensation. During summer I might get some condensation on floor of freezer but it's contained and easy to clean up.

 

[Bean]

Spike and Penguin are not engineering thier products to work together. I've had a ton of issues during cold crash with mine. I've effectively resigned to cold crashing down to 40F. No combinations of glycol temperatures, small temp drop steps, or ambient temperatures has been able to get me anywhere close to <35F on my beer. Additionally, the chiller itself drops a bunch of condensate all over my floor when it's struggling to keep temps down. It's infuriating for them to just point to each other after spending so much money on my system. Conveniently, I saw Penguin just released a chiller with a much larger glycol reservoir which I have been speculating is the main reason I can't hit my temps.

I build a Glycol chiller out of an old AC unit and a cooler. I can get my CF15 in the 20's with ease and keep it there if need be with a 10 degree drop in less than an hour. Condensation was an issue with the first chiller I build but after beefing up the insulation it isn't an issue anymore except for what comes off the conical. I have to keep a sponge on top as the lip catching the condensation started to show some rust after a few brews.

Make sure you have the input and output setup correctly for how cold you are trying to take it, one way is rated from less then 40 the other for above.

 

[mcmeador]

Spike replied that when going below 40 degrees, you should switch the orientation on the coil (change to glycol going directly to the bottom and then moving up) due to temperature inversion. They said if you continue running it from top to bottom, you can have icing at the top.

The ice forming on my coil was toward the bottom, though, and I only cooled to 38 degrees. Doesn’t sound like this is the explanation I was looking for, but I’ll switch the orientation around next time when I reach 40 and see if that improves the situation. I’ll probably also do it in steps rather than all at once.

 

[danclark714]

Spike replied that when going below 40 degrees, you should switch the orientation on the coil (change to glycol going directly to the bottom and then moving up) due to temperature inversion. They said if you continue running it from top to bottom, you can have icing at the top.

The ice forming on my coil was toward the bottom, though, and I only cooled to 38 degrees. Doesn’t sound like this is the explanation I was looking for, but I’ll switch the orientation around next time when I reach 40 and see if that improves the situation. I’ll probably also do it in steps rather than all at once.

I would be much happier if they just admitted that thier system isn't designed to cold crash beyond ~40F in regular ambient temps instead of wasting all of our time having us try things they know won't work.

 

[Bean]

I would be much happier if they just admitted that thier system isn't designed to cold crash beyond ~40F in regular ambient temps instead of wasting all of our time having us try things they know won't work.

pretty sure its your process. Mine sits in a open air garage and have I have no issues crashing into the 20F and leaving it there for days in the July heat of the north east.

Are your cooling lines insulated?
what temp to you have your chiller set to?
what side and you using as your in and out on the coil?

 

[Vale71]

pretty sure its your process. Mine sits in a open air garage and have I have no issues crashing into the 20F and leaving it there for days in the July heat of the north east.

Check your temp probe's calibration.

 

[marjen]

by chance could someone with a spike unitank can measure the length of their cooling coil? Looking for length of the CF5-15 versions. I need to replace my ssbrewtech one with one that is longer. Also looking to confirm its a 4” TC? Thanks.

 

[Bean]

by chance could someone with a spike unitank can measure the length of their cooling coil? Looking for length of the CF5-15 versions. I need to replace my ssbrewtech one with one that is longer. Also looking to confirm its a 4” TC? Thanks.

I have to pull a batch in the next few days. I can get you my numbers then unless you get them before.

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Now to a question. How many of you BIAB? I do (wilser bag and tightest crush I can get on Barley Crusher), and I also let my boil/whirlpool hops go comando. This results in quite a bit of trub in the fermentor. Ground water is still warm here, so I have been transferring at 84 or so and have been waiting a few hours for the wort to get down to pitching temps, which also allows the trub to settle a bit. I've tried pre-pitch dumps and it seemed like I was losing a lot and the sight glass wasn't clearing up. I am wondering if I should even bother and just wait to dump until after fermentation? Or, does it make more sense to just overbuild even more (e.g., 13+ gallons into the CF10 to end up with 10 gallons in kegs) to account for all the loss? Anyone have experience with this?

I BIAB. BrewBag bag, Monster Mill at 0.018. Hops commando as you. I have a CF5 and depending on what I'm brewing get 5 to 6.5g in fermenter. Have the 2" sight glass at the bottom, too. When I dry hop with 5 ounces of pellets (commando) for my IPA recipe, I end up dumping about 90-100 ounces till sight glass isn't necesarily clear but not obvious hop/trub/yeast crud. Racking tube pointed down, I end up with clear beer going to keg, but at this point, my final amount to keg was about 4 gallons. Have not tried pre-fermentation dumping but there really isn't that much by the time I whirlpool and about 1-2 quarts trub/crud left in BK. When no dry hopping I dump less - last lager I did was about 5.2 g to fermenter, about 48 ounces dumped/yeast harvested and 4.5g final amount to keg.

 

[Bean]

Spike replied that when going below 40 degrees, you should switch the orientation on the coil (change to glycol going directly to the bottom and then moving up) due to temperature inversion. They said if you continue running it from top to bottom, you can have icing at the top.

The ice forming on my coil was toward the bottom, though, and I only cooled to 38 degrees. Doesn’t sound like this is the explanation I was looking for, but I’ll switch the orientation around next time when I reach 40 and see if that improves the situation. I’ll probably also do it in steps rather than all at once.

I pulled my CF15 coil and measured it for you. The total length of the coil from the bottom of the flange is 26 inches. It's a 4 inch flange measuring a total of 4 5/8ths. Let me know if you need more numbers.

 

[Spin711]

by chance could someone with a spike unitank can measure the length of their cooling coil? Looking for length of the CF5-15 versions. I need to replace my ssbrewtech one with one that is longer. Also looking to confirm its a 4” TC? Thanks.

Check this article out.

 

[Stonehenge360]

Getting ready to use my CF-5 for the first time. For cleaning, do you guys recommend removing all fittings after CIP, and cleaning them all separately, or is the CIP good enough?
Spike says on their site that CIP without removing fittings gives a satisfactory result, but it seems like there is a lot of places for nasties to hide.

Can anyone give me direction on their cleaning routine?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Jag75]

Getting ready to use my CF-5 for the first time. For cleaning, do you guys recommend removing all fittings after CIP, and cleaning them all separately, or is the CIP good enough?
Spike says on their site that CIP without removing fittings gives a satisfactory result, but it seems like there is a lot of places for nasties to hide.

Can anyone give me direction on their cleaning routine?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I clean mine by soaking in hot pbw . Drain, then rinse with hot water . Then ill take off the elbow and attachments and soak them in hot pbw , rinse and dry. I may go overboard but I can't help it lol.

I do admit that there's been a few times I haven't pulled them off and cleaned separately though.

 

[Bean]

the elbow fittings Spike has for the coil connections, are they a "quick disconnect" kind or more of a shark bite that once they're in they're in? I was hesatent to get them because I can't remove the coil without wheeling the thing outside and doing that attached to a chiller is a PITA so I just have a hose with worm gear on it right now with more hosing than I like so I don't pinch the flow.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

they are more of a quick connect. they look like a shark bite and you just push them on but they have a little collar on them that you push in to remove them easily.

 

[Bean]

they are more of a quick connect. they look like a shark bite and you just push them on but they have a little collar on them that you push in to remove them easily.

Great! thanks for the info.

 

[Gozie Boy]

I've had an issue trying to get my coil connects off. Instead of trying to force the issue, I just let them be (since it wasn't essential that I remove them).

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

i found the easiest way to remove them from the coil is using a wrench that fits just over the metal line and use that to put pressure on the release ring and they pop off fairly easy. 5/16 or 3/8 wrench maybe, cant quite remember at the moment.

 

[Bean]

i found the easiest way to remove them from the coil is using a wrench that fits just over the metal line and use that to put pressure on the release ring and they pop off fairly easy. 5/16 or 3/8 wrench maybe, cant quite remember at the moment.

im going to pickup a set and test it out, big help. thanks.

 

[oach]

Preface by stating if this has already been discussed in this thread, sorry, just kindly point me to the page(s).

I have used the CF5 for 6-7 batches, the last a lager. I have a penguin chiller. I use a blow off tube fro the 1.5" TC fitting on the lid into sanitary water sitting on the ground in a jug. When I cold crash, some of that liquid gets sucked up into the tubing and, in the case of the lager and the long lagering process, almost all of the sanitary liquid was sucked up into the conical/hose.

I am trying to determine how to get around this during cold crashing due to the negative pressure. I thought about replacing the TC fitting with the gas manifold fitting but unsure how that fitting handles negative pressure and/or if it is the correct way to go.

Appreciate your thoughts and time.

Cheers.

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Preface by stating if this has already been discussed in this thread, sorry, just kindly point me to the page(s).

I have used the CF5 for 6-7 batches, the last a lager. I have a penguin chiller. I use a blow off tube fro the 1.5" TC fitting on the lid into sanitary water sitting on the ground in a jug. When I cold crash, some of that liquid gets sucked up into the tubing and, in the case of the lager and the long lagering process, almost all of the sanitary liquid was sucked up into the conical/hose.

I am trying to determine how to get around this during cold crashing due to the negative pressure. I thought about replacing the TC fitting with the gas manifold fitting but unsure how that fitting handles negative pressure and/or if it is the correct way to go.

Appreciate your thoughts and time.

Cheers.

Yeah you need the gas manifold so you can put a few pounds of CO2 pressure in there to cold crash

 

[John1963]

I have used the CF5 for 6-7 batches, the last a lager. I have a penguin chiller. I use a blow off tube fro the 1.5" TC fitting on the lid into sanitary water sitting on the ground in a jug

Using the same setup for lagers,just before the end of fermenting I switch the blow off for my spunding valve on the 1 1/2 “ tc on lid. I have the co2 connected and running at 2 psi while changing and hold valve upside down to fill with co2 prior to removing blow off and switching. Prior to yeast dump I put 3-4 psi in vessel , cold crash with 5 psi and add co2 as needed to keep above 3 psi while lagering , found my penguin to be working hard to hold lager at 34 so transferred to my 30l speidel with gas and beer ports at about 3 psi from nor cal to lager in my temp controlled freezer as it fits great.

 

[Stonehenge360]

I’m thinking about hooking my cf-5 blowoff to a keg to purge during fermentation

has anyone had beer crawl out of the cf-5 blow off? Should I put an intermediate catch in the line before it goes to the keg?

 

[John1963]

I’m thinking about hooking my cf-5 blowoff to a keg to purge during fermentation

What type of yeast, beer, and ferment temp are you going to use ? Only time I have was an imperial ale that was aerated with o2 and fermented at 65, really blew out pretty good for almost two days, other than that nothing else with ipa’s lagers and ales.

 

[BoilerInSoCal]

I BIAB. BrewBag bag, Monster Mill at 0.018. Hops commando as you. I have a CF5 and depending on what I'm brewing get 5 to 6.5g in fermenter. Have the 2" sight glass at the bottom, too. When I dry hop with 5 ounces of pellets (commando) for my IPA recipe, I end up dumping about 90-100 ounces till sight glass isn't necesarily clear but not obvious hop/trub/yeast crud. Racking tube pointed down, I end up with clear beer going to keg, but at this point, my final amount to keg was about 4 gallons. Have not tried pre-fermentation dumping but there really isn't that much by the time I whirlpool and about 1-2 quarts trub/crud left in BK. When no dry hopping I dump less - last lager I did was about 5.2 g to fermenter, about 48 ounces dumped/yeast harvested and 4.5g final amount to keg.

Thanks. I think I need to improve my whirlpool process. Perhaps I am not waiting long enough before transfer and/or I'm pulling the wort out of the kettle with too much force. Based on what I have been reading, many are suggesting there is no need for a pure trub dump prior to pitching, but rather just dump trub/yeast after fermentation. I also recently read somewhere that if you want to harvest cleaner yeast on option is to wait until fermentation has started and then do a quick trub dump? I'm brewing a NEIPA this weekend, and this will be my first smaller batch on the CF10, so we'll see how all this works out. I'm planning for 6.5 gal into my CF10. But with a 7 oz dry hop, I'm now questioning if that is not enough.

 

[BoilerInSoCal]

I’m thinking about hooking my cf-5 blowoff to a keg to purge during fermentation

has anyone had beer crawl out of the cf-5 blow off? Should I put an intermediate catch in the line before it goes to the keg?

I've done this with my CF10. I had 12 gallons of 1.070 SG fermenting with US-05. I used the manifold and created a "gas jumper" (6 ft. of gas line with ball lock gas connects on both ends) to connect to the "in" post on a star san filled keg. On the "out" side of the filled keg I connect a "liquid jumper" (2 ft. of bev line with ball lock liquid connects on both ends) and attach to the "out" of an empty keg. While I did not have any blow off into my gas jumper line, I did get some condensation as the ambient air cooled to close to ferm temps overnight. I was amazed at how fast this pushed 5 gal of star san out -- maybe an hour.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have been wanting to do this as well. think ill grab some extra quick connects and make up a couple jumpers. seems simple enough.

 

[Stonehenge360]

What type of yeast, beer, and ferment temp are you going to use ? Only time I have was an imperial ale that was aerated with o2 and fermented at 65, really blew out pretty good for almost two days, other than that nothing else with ipa’s lagers and ales.

Thanks for the heads up! Most of my brews are NEIPAs, with a few Kolsches, stouts, and saisons mixed in.

I guess the worst that can happen is i get some top crop in my keg and have to clean it and repurge

 

[Dem Castles]

Quick question

I just dry hopped at 70 degrees. It is currently under 10 PSI in my spike flex +

I want to add super kleer in 2 days the same way i dry hopped (using a sight glass)


Can I decrease pressure to 2 psi and then drop in part A super kleer, rock the fermenter gently to swirl it around and then add part B the same way?
I'll have 5 psi in the sight glass to counter the 2 psi in the fermenter so everything drops in no problem.

Just not sure if 2 psi will prevent a vaccum even though it will be a fairly quick process

 

[Vale71]

Can I decrease pressure to 2 psi and then drop in part A super kleer, rock the fermenter gently to swirl it around and then add part B the same way?
I'll have 5 psi in the sight glass to counter the 2 psi in the fermenter so everything drops in no problem.

Why?
If the beer is at equilibrium and you drop the pressure while at the same time agitating the beer you can expect quite a lot of foaming.