Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[Bohern]

reading the directions from five star is says 2oz to 5gal, 2 to 3 min contact time, drain but do not rinse. i believe star san is considered an air dry as well, contact time is a little less for star san. i think you are fine to use it how you plan to, cip or spray then maybe let it drip for a minute or 2, close everything up then like eric does just open your bottom valve right before you go to fill it to let any residual out, i do this as well.

My concern had been with had I used Sani-clean and put it up wet say day before it would be an issue but sounds that is not the case.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

typically you want to sanitize right before use, i spray mine down at the end of boil or during wp. so about 30min to an hour before use. i am not sure if you do it a day ahead and leave it closed if that would be fine considering it isnt open.

 

[Bohern]

typically you want to sanitize right before use, i spray mine down at the end of boil or during wp. so about 30min to an hour before use. i am not sure if you do it a day ahead and leave it closed if that would be fine considering it isnt open.

I'd still spray cause I overly cautious when it comes to cleaning and sanitizing.

 

[eric19312]

reading the directions from five star is says 2oz to 5gal, 2 to 3 min contact time, drain but do not rinse. i believe star san is considered an air dry as well, contact time is a little less for star san. i think you are fine to use it how you plan to, cip or spray then maybe let it drip for a minute or 2, close everything up then like eric does just open your bottom valve right before you go to fill it to let any residual out, i do this as well.

Star-san is 1oz per five gallons in food applications. If used at higher concentrations it is no longer no-rinse.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

yes star san is. but the saniclean is 2oz per 5gal.

 

[eric19312]

yes star san is. but the saniclean is 2oz per 5gal.

sorry misread your post. it is also interesting that saniclean is no longer labeled as a sanitizer. now it is an acid rinse...

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

yeah i read that as well. it says final rinse on the spec sheet which leads me to believe it to be a sanitizer. looks like in large volume it is used to cip everything in a brewery, then they show a potable rinse and follow local sanitizing processes and regulations.. a little misleading.

 

[alan sabatke]

I have the cf 15. after cleaning, I use star san and let it run out the bottom valve while Im brewing. When the wert has boiled enough, I pump the boiling wert into the fermenter as an added sterilization. Temp gauge in the fermenter says 195 to 200 at that time. The cooling coil cools it down rapidly using well water. I hooked a solenoid to the well water and the cooling coil, plug it into an inkbird set to 68 and let it do its job. When it cools, there has to be air supplied or the fermenter will collapse. I wrap some cheese cloth sprayed with starsan around the blow off tube, and let her go. Takes about 20 mins till its ready for yeast, put the blow off tube in a starsan bucket and let her brew! Works well for me!

 

[jturman35]

Hey guys I need some help with your process when brewing NEIPA’s with 8-12oz dry hop charges and getting the hops to settle out. I have about a dozen or so NEIPA brews under my belt using my CF5 with sight glass and glycol chiller. I can get my temps down to about 40 for cold crashing. I always seem to have issues transferring hop material into the keg which has always been a problem. My latest batch I cold crashed for 2.5 days at 40 and tried removing as much hop material as possible. I was headed out of town and didn’t want to leave the beer in the conical as I was already at about 18 days in. This particular batch called for 2oz dry hop day 3 and 6oz day 13. After 2 days on the second charge I dropped the temp down to 40 for 2.5 days and made several dumps at about 3-5psi. I could never get clear beer in my sight glad but I assumed I was below the racking arm. I then started my transfer to keg and beer looked great coming through the hose with no clogs. After about halfway there the beer line turned sludgy looking and starting getting clogs. I have up after I got the keg about halfway full. Here is what I have left over once opening the top. This is the first time I lost this much beer. How long are you guys cold crashing? I even did a soft crash down to 51 for two days before adding the 6oz dry hop charge.

I’m starting to consider dry hopping in a bag and taking my chance with oxidation Or either keg hopping but I can’t control temp in the keg. This is my favorite style but is the biggest PITA to brew. You guys have any suggestions?

Sorry for the long

 

[Vale71]

3 days is way too soon for the finest hop particles to settle out also considering that cold crashing increases the beer's viscosity making the process even slower. I always wait a minimum of two weeks before transfering and that's at temperatures between 10-12°C.

 

[couchsending]

Do you have the racking arm?

If so do you rotate the racking arm? It should be horizontal for the duration of ferment then turn it so it faces up (you don’t need to go straight up) when you transfer.

It’ll always be full of yeast/hops so open it a few times to empty it before attaching your transfer fitting. With over 10oz of hops in the CF5 you definitely need to remove some before you try to transfer. Do it as slow as possible and do it 2 or 3 times.

2-3 days at 39/40 should be enough. Done it many times with as much as 16oz in both the CF5 and SS 7g Chronicals. As long as you dump hops a few times during and after crashing and let it sit for a few days at 40 you should be good. If you don’t have a racking arm I’d buy one. Don’t bag the hops. You’ll introduce more o2 and extraction is worse.

 

[k-daddy]

Probably have to allow more time in the cold crash for the hop particles to settle. I found this video to be helpful when I was learning about closed transfers. I’ve since modified my process. I now purge my kegs with co2 from the fermentation blow off tube. When it comes time to keg, I burp any sludge from the racking arm into a bucket, then I connect the racking arm to the beer in post and a co2 purged gas line from the keg gas post back to the top of the fermenter using the Blichmann spunding valve to displace the beer that flows (by gravity) out of the fermenter and into the keg... works like a charm and saves on gas.

 

[Stonehenge360]

@jturman35 i had a similar problem. I would go colder on your cold crash....I found 33F gives me better results. I also pulled the valve out of a black ball lock fitting, painted the top red so I didn’t get it mixed up, and use that for transferring NEIPA. I remove the popit thing from the liquid out post on the keg, attach it to my new black/red fitting, and transfer. I use a floating line in my kegs so If I get a bit of hops through, I don’t worry about it and I know it won’t plug up the liquid out post.
Don’t forget to put the liquid out post back together before pressurizing the keg.

edit: +1 on the racking arm comments...I assumed you had one but if not it makes a big difference

 

[eric19312]

I find about 3 days at below 30 drops most of the hops. I dump hops over a couple days about a pint to a quart at a time. When kegging I do use the racking arm it is pointed straight down to get maximum beer out of the fermentor. For large dry hop loads I will use an inline filter between the conical and the keg. The very fine hop particles Vale mentioned do make it into the kegs. Those will end up getting tossed in a murky first half pint pour after I hook the keg up and let it get chilled and settled.

 

[jturman35]

I do have a racking arm and always leave it pointed down. I have always been hesitant to rotate, this could be my problem. I never have any issues with other beers just NEIPA’s. I watched the video and see this guy is transferring into a pressurized keg which I don’t do. I fill my keg all the way up with starsan then I connect 30lbs of co2 in order to seat the lid. I then remove all the starsan using a picnic tap so the keg is empty and hopefully void of o2. I then run a line from the co2 side into a bucket of starsan. See pic attached. I’m not able to get my conical below 40degrees. I do dump the first 12ounces or so in order to bleed the line of o2.

What's a good pressure for trying to dump the hops? I keep having the beer push through which i don't want.

 

[user 272106]

I put a cut down bazooka filter on my racking arm (secured with a ss clamp). It's made a huge difference but some can still get through. I hate potential clogging in my lines or kegs. I now have a triclamp gas post on the racking port I use to rouse the dry hops a couple times before cold crashing. When kegging I attach a gas ball lock connect to that on regular beer/keg line with the beer connect on the other end. If anything clogs, it will be that gas post. Quick to unclog, sanitize, and CO2 purge if it happens and continue on transferring. It's been really smooth my last 2 keg transfers since I added these (both have had 8oz dry hops with a minimal dump after cold crash to 36f)

 

[k-daddy]

I do have a racking arm and always leave it pointed down. I have always been hesitant to rotate, this could be my problem. I never have any issues with other beers just NEIPA’s. I watched the video and see this guy is transferring into a pressurized keg which I don’t do. I fill my keg all the way up with starsan then I connect 30lbs of co2 in order to seat the lid. I then remove all the starsan using a picnic tap so the keg is empty and hopefully void of o2. I then run a line from the co2 side into a bucket of starsan. See pic attached. I’m not able to get my conical below 40degrees. I do dump the first 12ounces or so in order to bleed the line of o2.

What's a good pressure for trying to dump the hops? I keep having the beer push through which i don't want.

Get one of these for between the racking arm and fermenter. EZ to rotate and no leaks. Game changer. https://www.amazon.com/Dernord-Tefl...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

[couchsending]

You keep it pointed down? No wonder...

It should be level and then turned up slightly (45*) when transferring.

Trust me I’ve made probably 200 hoppy beers this way. Rarely rarely do I ever get a clog. You’re gonna waste some beer it’s inevitable. I’d rather waste a few pints of beer than deal with clogged lines.

2-4 psi is all you need when dumping hops. Dump until you start to get beer then stop. Wait a bit then start again.

For your transfers it’s best to fill all the way. Push a pint out. Hit it with 30 psi and purge 12-13 times then push the rest of the Star San out through your transfer line. Pressurize to 10 psi. Give it 15 minutes for all the foam to settle then blow it all out. Then with the gas hooked up to the keg at 10 or so pSI hook your transfer line up but leave the Tri clamp barely open so you hear cO2 hissing out. Leave it like this for 60 seconds then tighten down the TC clamp. Now put your blowoff on the gas in and let the remaining pressure out of the keg and put it in your bucket of starsan and start transferring.

 

[BoilerInSoCal]

You keep it pointed down? No wonder...

It should be level and then turned up slightly (45*) when transferring.

Trust me I’ve made probably 200 hoppy beers this way. Rarely rarely do I ever get a clog. You’re gonna waste some beer it’s inevitable. I’d rather waste a few pints of beer than deal with clogged lines.

2-4 psi is all you need when dumping hops. Dump until you start to get beer then stop. Wait a bit then start again.

Agree with this. Especially the need to move the racking arm up before transfer. A teflon gasket makes it really easy.

I have the CF10, but I think the volumes in the cone are the same. When I do 5 gal batches, I build my recipes to start with 7 gal in the Spike to allow for losses from sampling and dumping (I dump trub before pitching, I dump/collect yeast after a soft crash before dry hopping, and then I dump as much of the hops as I can before transfer...sometimes it becomes compact and clogs in the elbow after a while, but I still haven't had an issue even with just 24-36 hours at 38F cold crash).

If you want a little more room for hops to fall below the racking arm, you could add an elbow below your sight glass. I have one with a 2" TC cam-lock on the end of that to which I attach a short hose to help with dumping. So, it looks like: spike>sight glass> elbow>2" butterfly valve>2"TC cam lock or gas post (if hops settle fast and I want to rouse them with hits of CO2).

 

[jturman35]

Lesson learned, I will get a Teflon gasket. I do have a reducer to a small hose for dumping. I just assumed as long as the racking arm was above the hops it didn't matter the position. By level are you saying move the racking arm to the 9 or 3 o'clock position during fermentation then 1 - 2 o'clock for transferring?

 

[couchsending]

Lesson learned, I will get a Teflon gasket. I do have a reducer to a small hose for dumping. I just assumed as long as the racking arm was above the hops it didn't matter the position. By level are you saying move the racking arm to the 9 or 3 o'clock position during fermentation then 1 - 2 o'clock for transferring?

yes 3 o’clock for fermentation... 1-2 o’clock for transferring. You don’t need a Teflon gasket honestly. Just loosen the TC clamp slightly and wrench on the butterfly valve. It’ll move fine.

 

[eric19312]

all you guys pointing the racking arm up to transfer the difference in volume is significant...on the CF15 the volumes are
up 2.3 gallons
horizontal 1.1 gallons
down 0.6 gallons
I believe that is without considering volume of any piping below the cone. I try to get 3 full kegs out of batch and just can't spare 1.7 gallons to waste.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

@jturman35 When I am doing a neipa I always brew a larger batch into the fermenter. Looks like your krausen line is around 5.5 gal. I would get another gallon in there. I also use an inline bouncer filter and start my racking arm at about the 2oclock position and rotate to maybe the 4 or 5oclock position before I start picking up a bunch of hop material. I typically cold crash this style to 37 for 3 days and do a slow dump once or twice each day. Using the cf15 for this style I sometimes only get 2 3/4 kegs instead of 3 full ones. But dry hopping at between 1 and 2 oz/gallon I come to expect it, thats still like 90% of the batch if I fall a little short.

 

[eric19312]

@jturman35 When I am doing a neipa I always brew a larger batch into the fermenter. Looks like your krausen line is around 5.5 gal. I would get another gallon in there. I also use an inline bouncer filter and start my racking arm at about the 2oclock position and rotate to maybe the 4 or 5oclock position before I start picking up a bunch of hop material. I typically cold crash this style to 37 for 3 days and do a slow dump once or twice each day. Using the cf15 for this style I sometimes only get 2 3/4 kegs instead of 3 full ones. But dry hopping at between 1 and 2 oz/gallon I come to expect it, thats still like 90% of the batch if I fall a little short.

Yeah that inline bouncer filter is similar the one I am using. I found the company that makes them and got one with threaded fittings. VacMotion product: PLS-M12M-NCB-050 - 1/2 MNPT Mini Series Nylon Strainer with Clear Nylon Bowl, Buna gasket and 50 mesh Stainless Steel Screen
I then added duo tight fittings and EVA barrier tubing. I went with the larger 6mm ID/9.5 mm OD duotight and EVA tubing available from Morebeer.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yeah that inline bouncer filter is similar the one I am using. I found the company that makes them and got one with threaded fittings. VacMotion product: PLS-M12M-NCB-050 - 1/2 MNPT Mini Series Nylon Strainer with Clear Nylon Bowl, Buna gasket and 50 mesh Stainless Steel Screen
I then added duo tight fittings and EVA barrier tubing. I went with the larger 6mm ID/9.5 mm OD duotight and EVA tubing available from Morebeer.

Nice! I like that setup with the eva barrier.. just curious on a different note, I assume you purge it with co2 and wonder what your process is to get a good purge on it?

 

[eric19312]

Nice! I like that setup with the eva barrier.. just curious on a different note, I assume you purge it with co2 and wonder what your process is to get a good purge on it?

I purge it with beer. I use one of these
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/balllockxbarb38.htmand fire foamy beer into a growler then disconnect it with beer flowing. I fully carbonate in the CF15 so am filling into purged pressurized kegs with spunding valve on the gas side.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Gotcha, I do closed transfers but don't carb in the fermenter. At least not usually. That ball lock post would certainly make this easier. Thanks.

 

[BoilerInSoCal]

I purge it with beer. I use one of these
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/balllockxbarb38.htmand fire foamy beer into a growler then disconnect it with beer flowing. I fully carbonate in the CF15 so am filling into purged pressurized kegs with spunding valve on the gas side.

I do the same, and that ball lock post is great. (I also have a couple of the dual sided posts which are great for cleaning multiple beer lines at once!).

I also start with the racking arm at around 1 o'clock, and move it down during the transfer. I often get to about 5 without issue. Starting with more (e.g., 7 gal.) is key. I do leave some (but not a ton behind), but that is worth it to me not to have to deal with clogs and the like. I often transfer and clean while brewing the next batch, so I need to stay on schedule!

 

[HOPtuary]

Anyone else have issue with the heat wrap only getting about 15*F past ambient? Is this common? Kind of disappointed.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yes. So typically if I neeeeed to get warmer before fermentation kicks off I run a space heater. My basement temps are usually 50f to 55f for this time of year. I was disappointed here as well but have been able to adapt. I actually contacted spike and they sent me a new heating element for my cf15. I think it did help some but i can't brew with kveik until the warmer months come around. I don't really care I guess because for the most part I am fermenting at 65 to 70 so as long as I can warm up for d-rest its not a huge concern. I suppose I could wrap an extra blanket around it but every time I think about that I just say screw that. To much of a hassle. haha.