Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

[Andie_96]

Now I am a very new Home-Brewer, with probably a very easy-to-answer question. But is there an easy way to convert this recipe (the original post) to an extract recipe instead of a whole grain as it is the only way I have brewed before? I don't have a problem with trying all grain, but even if I could down-size this batch to about 5 gal. final I would be happy. I just honestly don't know conversion rates and haven't had much luck finding them either.

 

[brucewayne10000]

Now I am a very new Home-Brewer, with probably a very easy-to-answer question. But is there an easy way to convert this recipe (the original post) to an extract recipe instead of a whole grain as it is the only way I have brewed before? I don't have a problem with trying all grain, but even if I could down-size this batch to about 5 gal. final I would be happy. I just honestly don't know conversion rates and haven't had much luck finding them either.

Download a trial of beersmith 2, spend a few minutes watching tutorials on YouTube to set up your equipment and then plug in the all grain recipe, after you do that thou can have the software adjust the batch size and make it extract!

 

[hopbrad]

Now I am a very new Home-Brewer, with probably a very easy-to-answer question. But is there an easy way to convert this recipe (the original post) to an extract recipe instead of a whole grain as it is the only way I have brewed before? I don't have a problem with trying all grain, but even if I could down-size this batch to about 5 gal. final I would be happy. I just honestly don't know conversion rates and haven't had much luck finding them either.

i brewed an extract version about 9-10 months ago. the difference were 8.5 lbs of Light DME instead of the 14 lbs of american 2row. i couldn't find any pumpkins yet so i baked 2 cans of Libbys and put 1/2 of it in the muslin bag while steeping the Crystal and Victory, then 1/4 of it in a muslin bag at 30 minutes left, and the last 1/4 of it i mixed directly in the wort with 5 minutes left. 1 tsp of ground cinnamon instead of the sticks. Turbinando Sugar instead of Demerera. 1 packet of S-05. everything else the same.
it tasted amazing when i put it in the fermenter. The one thing i F'ed up on was the Vanilla, I put too many vanilla beans into some Flor De Cana rum, and when i added that as a "dry hop" 2 weeks later it made it extremely sweet. i think the rum added to that as well.
anyway it took like 3-4 months to carb up and at that point was still not good. too much vanilla flavor. Its decent now. The vanilla/Rum has faded but its still too sweet. If i was trying to brew a Vanilla/Rumpkin ale, people would think its good, so thats what i tell em! but as a southern tier clone, its not as good. just too sweet. the graham extract may have added to that wierd sweetness too.
so my advice would be to be careful with the additions. better to use less than more. and i would suggest 2 packets of dry yeast, i only used one.
if i were to brew it again, which may be while bc i live in nicaragua now and the homebrew supply stores dont exist, i would cut out the vanilla and graham cracker. and it would be a damn good pumpkin brew. a good beer is better than an OK clone.

 

[ddrrseio]

i tried the capella extract at various levels and didn't find one i liked. i'd be happy to send the little bottle off to someone else since there's plenty left for another few attempts. i'd rather send to someone who hasn't made this yet. i'll check my PMs tomorrow.

 

[waldzinator]

Hey,

I realize that this topic hasn't been posted on in a while, but with fall right around the corner, you know people are going to be thinking Pumking Clone. Several posters throughout the years have commented on the Diacetyl character of Pumking, while others have denied such flavor. I fall into the former group. There is definitely Diacetyl. Sources close to ST have confirmed this with a wink and nod . I don't think the Diacetyl is coming from process (high ferm temp). I'm thinking it's yeast. Ringwood strain? I think that, along with the various flavor concoctions added to it create that signature Pumking flavor.

Anyone with me?

 

[TyTanium]

Yes.

I used WY1469 and got some buttery crust flavor, at least early on:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index43.html#post4425738

 

[ultrablue22]

I toured ST and got the tour guide to confirm the strong presence of Diacetyl in Pumking.

So if you don't detect it in Pumking you probably just are not sensitive to it. Or you're lying to yourself. Or you secretly work for Southern Tier and you're playing a very cruel joke on all of us.

 

[waldzinator]

Yes.

I used WY1469 and got some buttery crust flavor, at least early on:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index43.html#post4425738

So, based on my convos with ST folks, I think for this fall's clone, I'm sticking with the standard ingredients (he very strongly suggested using Sterling hops, as noted on the bottle), mashing very high -- 156 maybe (he suggested mashing high, but didn't get into temp specifics), and I think I'm going to use Ringwood and cold crash it once I hit FG to prevent the yeast from absorbing the buttery goodness.

 

[tdawg183]

Hey,

I realize that this topic hasn't been posted on in a while, but with fall right around the corner, you know people are going to be thinking Pumking Clone. Several posters throughout the years have commented on the Diacetyl character of Pumking, while others have denied such flavor. I fall into the former group. There is definitely Diacetyl. Sources close to ST have confirmed this with a wink and nod . I don't think the Diacetyl is coming from process (high ferm temp). I'm thinking it's yeast. Ringwood strain? I think that, along with the various flavor concoctions added to it create that signature Pumking flavor.

Anyone with me?

Yes, I agree. Sometimes I don't think enough people realize the complex variations that can occur simply by playing with different yeast strains.

 

[ErieShores]

I've noticed some Pumking popping up around here, it's still July! It's about time to try cloning again. Anyone start theirs yet?

 

[NervousDad]

I've noticed some Pumking popping up around here, it's still July! It's about time to try cloning again. Anyone start theirs yet?

They just had some on tap at a bar near me too. Got me thinking it's almost time to start brewing a batch.

 

[electrobank]

I just ordered all the grains for TWO batches of this stuff. Hopefully I'll hit the magic mark with the extract/spice ratio. The latest trend seems to suggest the Ringwood yeast is responsible for the graham crust taste, and not the extracts. Any thoughts/confirmations?

 

[smokinghole]

Well ringwood is known as a high diacetyl producer. So that would make sense.

 

[rcs226]

What version of the recipe is everyone going with nowadays? I brewed the recipe on post 190ish last year. In my opinion, it was a good beer, but by no means would I consider it a clone. My friends preferred what I had made over pumking. I think the price point had a lot to do with it though. When something is free it's tastes much better.

I followed the recipe pretty close. Made a couple revisions, but not much. I would call them tweaks.

Any good success or failures of notable magnitude before I proceed with purchasing ingredients? Any ideas are appreciated. I will be making some form of a pumking clone regardless.

 

[sivdrinks]

Just don't use the graham cracker extract.

 

[Tomcat0304]

Just don't use the graham cracker extract.

+1 In mine it added a metallic taste and didn't add any graham cracker flavor. I have seen a thread about mashing Grahams. It may be easier to add a graham cracker rim to the glass if you really want it.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Just don't use the graham cracker extract.

+1. The metallic chemical flavor overwhelmed any graham cracker flavor. Bad stuff. Might fade with aging, but I have little interest in wasting beer to find out.

 

[stblindtiger]

I used this recipe, with a few tweaks, and got to the second round of the AHA competition this year. It placed first in the NY regional first round, but got shut out in the second. The guy that came in second behind me in the regional placed third in the final round so it was right there. I cut back the lactose, added graham crackers to the mash, and used a fresh Peanut Pumpkin instead of canned or a regular Halloween pumpkin.

Can't wait for cooler weather and Pumpkin beer!

 

[Chug]

Just don't use the graham cracker extract.

Just thought I'd add to this. I brewed this last July (2012) and turned out horribly metallic and just plain bad thanks to the damned graham cracker extract.

I have too much heart to dump it so I still have about 40 bottles in my basement, hoping age would magically help make it drinkable. Put one in the fridge a few days ago thinking what the hell. Poured it tonight, dumped it down the drain. Even after a full year, though somewhat diminished, that damned extract is still holding strong. It's disappointing because I feel it would've been a good beer without it.

As far as cloning the real deal? Impossible, I think. Southern Tier almost has to have some sort of proprietary flavoring working the magic.

 

[FermentusMaximus]

It may be easier to add a graham cracker rim to the glass if you really want it.

There's a bar near me that serves Pumking with a caramel, cinnamon, and sugar rim on the glass.

 

[crzepilot]

I used this recipe, with a few tweaks, and got to the second round of the AHA competition this year. It placed first in the NY regional first round, but got shut out in the second. The guy that came in second behind me in the regional placed third in the final round so it was right there. I cut back the lactose, added graham crackers to the mash, and used a fresh Peanut Pumpkin instead of canned or a regular Halloween pumpkin.

Can't wait for cooler weather and Pumpkin beer!

Which recipe did you use?

 

[waldzinator]

I just ordered all the grains for TWO batches of this stuff. Hopefully I'll hit the magic mark with the extract/spice ratio. The latest trend seems to suggest the Ringwood yeast is responsible for the graham crust taste, and not the extracts. Any thoughts/confirmations?

I don't know if the Ringwood strain is responsible for the graham cracker taste. I think Ringwood is definitely responsible for the buttery taste, due to the high diacetyl production. The palatable flavor of graham cracker to some could be the buttery flavor of diacetyl. I taste a faint graham cracker flavor.

I'm going to brew two batches, both using ringwood. One with the graham cracker extract and one without. Like I said in my previous post though, one of the ST brewers confirmed that Diacetyl is present in the beer. So, I think the debate over that is put to rest (unless he was lying to me). With that said, the easiest method to introduce diacetyl is through a high-D strain like ringwood. Remember, if you let the beer warm up after primary ends, you'll lose some of the butteriness as the yeast will absorb the D. So, primary, and then keep it cool.

 

[Chug]

Stumbled across something earlier today. Not sure how legit this guy is, he claims to have brewed at Southern Tier, but either way I think he's right. http://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/1j7pmx/found_my_new_favorite_ipa/cbcist2?context=3

 

[waldzinator]

Stumbled across something earlier today. Not sure how legit this guy is, he claims to have brewed at Southern Tier, but either way I think he's right. http://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/1j7pmx/found_my_new_favorite_ipa/cbcist2?context=3

Wow, his/her comments were superhelpful.

Having talked to a couple of the brewers, I don't know if I buy that guy's comment or even the validity of him being an ST brewer. They (at least the ones I've talked to) have a very go-git-em attitude towards homebrewers wanting to clone their beers. I mean, I don't think they are sourcing in moonrocks or uranium for their beers.

 

[xjmox14x]

Stumbled across something earlier today. Not sure how legit this guy is, he claims to have brewed at Southern Tier, but either way I think he's right. http://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/1j7pmx/found_my_new_favorite_ipa/cbcist2?context=3

Typically brewers from a somewhat famous brewery know how to spell their own beers' names.

 

[Chug]

Typically brewers from a somewhat famous brewery know how to spell their own beers' names.

Yeah I seen that. It always irks me when I see "Pumpking" too.

 

[xjmox14x]

Yeah I seen that. It always irks me when I see "Pumpking" too.

Not to say he didn't really work there at some point and isn't just a typo. But I'd be just as skeptical as you are.

 

[sivdrinks]

i don't know if the ringwood strain is responsible for the graham cracker taste. I think ringwood is definitely responsible for the buttery taste, due to the high diacetyl production. The palatable flavor of graham cracker to some could be the buttery flavor of diacetyl. I taste a faint graham cracker flavor.

I'm going to brew two batches, both using ringwood. One with the graham cracker extract and one without. Like i said in my previous post though, one of the st brewers confirmed that diacetyl is present in the beer. So, i think the debate over that is put to rest (unless he was lying to me). With that said, the easiest method to introduce diacetyl is through a high-d strain like ringwood. Remember, if you let the beer warm up after primary ends, you'll lose some of the butteriness as the yeast will absorb the d. So, primary, and then keep it cool.

don't use the gc extract!!!

 

[stblindtiger]

Which recipe did you use?

Pumpkin Ale
Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer
All Grain (5.50 gal) ABV: 9.62 % (might be a little high based on my estimates for the pumpkin)
OG: 1.086 SG FG: 1.013 SG
IBUs: 34.9 IBUs Color: 11.3 SRM
By: Skibbereen
Ingredients

14 lb - Pale Malt, 2 row (Gambrinus)

Mash addition (82.4%) - 2.0 SRM



1 lb - Victory Malt

Mash addition (5.9%) - 25.0 SRM



12.0 oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L

Mash addition (4.4%) - 80.0 SRM



1 box Graham Crackers

Mash



1 lb - Dememera Sugar

Mash addition (5.9%) - 2.0 SRM



4.0 oz - Milk Sugar (Lactose)

Mash addition (1.5%) - 0.0 SRM



1 - Peanut Pumpkin

Mash addition (0.0%) - 3.0 SRM



0.75 oz - Magnum

Boil 60 min (29.6 IBUs)



0.25 oz - Sterling

Boil 60 min (5.3 IBUs)



2.00 tbsp - Ginger Root

Boil 12 min



2.00 Items - Cinnamon Stick

Boil 5 min



0.50 tsp - Allspice

Boil 0 min



0.50 tsp - NUTMEG

Boil 0 min



2 pkg - Safale American

DCL/Fermentis #US-05



5.00 Items - Whole Cloves

Secondary 0 min



1.00 Items - Vanilla Bean

Secondary 0 min



0.50 tsp - Ground Cinnamon

Secondary 0 min


The secondary items were soaked in vodka for 2 weeks, then added to keg by taste.

 

[milldoggy]

Pumpkin Ale
Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer
All Grain (5.50 gal) ABV: 9.62 % (might be a little high based on my estimates for the pumpkin)
OG: 1.086 SG FG: 1.013 SG
IBUs: 34.9 IBUs Color: 11.3 SRM
By: Skibbereen
Ingredients

14 lb - Pale Malt, 2 row (Gambrinus)

Mash addition (82.4%) - 2.0 SRM

1 lb - Victory Malt

Mash addition (5.9%) - 25.0 SRM

12.0 oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L

Mash addition (4.4%) - 80.0 SRM

1 box Graham Crackers

Mash

1 lb - Dememera Sugar

Mash addition (5.9%) - 2.0 SRM

4.0 oz - Milk Sugar (Lactose)

Mash addition (1.5%) - 0.0 SRM

1 - Peanut Pumpkin

Mash addition (0.0%) - 3.0 SRM

0.75 oz - Magnum

Boil 60 min (29.6 IBUs)

0.25 oz - Sterling

Boil 60 min (5.3 IBUs)

2.00 tbsp - Ginger Root

Boil 12 min

2.00 Items - Cinnamon Stick

Boil 5 min

0.50 tsp - Allspice

Boil 0 min

0.50 tsp - NUTMEG

Boil 0 min

2 pkg - Safale American

DCL/Fermentis #US-05

5.00 Items - Whole Cloves

Secondary 0 min

1.00 Items - Vanilla Bean

Secondary 0 min

0.50 tsp - Ground Cinnamon

Secondary 0 min

The secondary items were soaked in vodka for 2 weeks, then added to keg by taste.

Jim, save me a bottle! This was excellent last year