Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

[smittygouv30]

I brewed gwdlaws clone pretty much exactly. I think the beer is very good however it is a far cry from southern tiers. My clone has a an obvious higher alcohol flavor(despite being about the same abv), more pumpkin pie flavors, and the pie crusty flavor definitely missed the mark when comparing to the original.

On a brighter note I had fun making a beer label.

 

[Tomcat0304]

Tomcat, you are trying to clone a beer you have never tried and you are disappointed in your end result? Respectfully, I think this is quite odd. Perhaps you wouldn't even enjoy Pumking?

Hey Erie, no offense taken! I completely agree that it is odd that I would try a clone of something I haven't tasted before and that it is possible I wouldn't like a Pumking. I haven't seen a Pumking in my area, so I have nothing to compare my brew to. I just wanted to share my process, recipe and opinions for everyone to see, confirm others findings and hopefully get some positive feedback. I wasn't entirely disappointed with my result, I think it is a great base to jump off from to suit my own preferences.

Cheers and many thanks,

Jarod

 

[jeepinjeepin]

I don't see it as odd that we would brew a clone recipe of a beer we haven't tried. How many people have brewed Pliny kits? How many do you think have had Pliny? I'm planning on brewing Great Lakes Christmas. It's kinda tough to get. I can't remember if I've seen it in any of my local stores. I know I won't nail it. I hope to try the real version. Sometimes it's the best we can do.

 

[SpeedYellow]

When you guys refer to this recipe as a "clone," you're being extremely generous. It's barely in the ballpark.

 

[cvillebrewer]

I have been following this thread for a bit and set out to build a pumking clone loosely following some of the recipes on this forum. My beer has finished primary and I have been testing flavor combinations for the secondary.

To test I bought some Capella extracts and made an extract with spices in vodka with the ratio of 4-1-1-1-3 of Ginger,Nutmeg, Cloves, Allspice, and Cinnamon.

Results of my tests:

Spices- I agree that the cinnamon should be somewhat subdued and ginger more upfront. The ratio I used above for the spice mix worked well.

Vanilla- To test I used real vanilla extract and agree the vanilla should be included but should be firmly in the background

Capella Graham Cracker extract- This extract has a terrible artificial and somewhat metallic aftertaste as others have mentioned and if used at all should be subdued. I used 1 drop in 1 oz of beer and the aftertaste was noticeable. Overall, I don't think this is the key

Capella popcorn flavoring- Prior to using this my mixes did not taste like Pumking. After adding 2 drops of popcorn flavoring to the mix everything came together and I was staring Pumking in the face.

Takeaways- The key here is a popcorn or butter flavoring AKA diacetyl.

I think this beer could be made without the extract by using a yeast that spits diacetyl at higher temps such as WLP002. At higher temps I believe this yeast will provide the needed diacetyl while also accomplishing the needed higher residual body as this yeast is less attenuative.


As others have concluded, the quoted specs of Pumking (19 plato O.G.) and 8.6% ABV do not jive with the residual body at all. I used marris otter, c-60, and victory mashing at 156 F, and using WLP001 to get me to a starting gravity around 19.5 plato and fermented down to get around 8.6% abv. This beer had nowehere near the residual body so I cannot see how they can get the body and ABV with a 19 plato start unless they add lactose as many have speculated.

 

[ahefner33]

I asked Austin homebrew to comeup with a Pumking clone recipe since i need the full out kits to brew. Anyways they put it out and I already got the extract kit and about 1.5 weeks in with fermentation. Will try to remember to update how it turns out compared to the real thing.

 

[PoconoParadiso]

Just reporting out on my partial mash version. After approximately 3 weeks in the the fermenters (this was a violent fermentation that demanded a blow off tube) it went into a brand new 5 gallon oak barrel for 7 days. I then decided it was time to keg and added 1/4 tsp of the Vanilla Butter Nut extract at kegging. After 1 wk in the keg and a few pulls, decided to add another 1/4 teaspoon of finely chopped candied ginger and 5 more drops of the extract. Maybe not a clone, but this was very Punkimg-esque and my guests at a Halloween shindig could not have raved (or drank) more (we kicked the keg in one night!) Even my father who drinks nothing but Yuengling and reminds me every time he tries a homebrew that he likes his beer to taste like beer, drank this all night long. There were several comments of how much it tasted like pumpkin pie, and how did I get the fresh baked crust aroma in there. I will definitely be brewing this again next year and will stay tuned for any tweaks that can make this any better!

 

[BrewThruYou]

I don't see it as odd that we would brew a clone recipe of a beer we haven't tried. How many people have brewed Pliny kits? How many do you think have had Pliny?

I think the difference is that Pliny is a pretty standard DIPA while Pumking is an extremely unique pumpkin beer. There are a TON of people on this forum and people I've met that simply do not like Pumking, but I don't hear anyone talk bad about Pliny (except to say overrated...it's still a great beer).

 

[WestNittany118]

Hello All,

So I've read this thread start to finish and there is a lot of great stuff in here. I'm new to homebrewing and have one extract and four all grain brews under my belt, the pumking clone being my first attempt at all grain. While not an exact clone the beer came out great and I had a great time brewing it. Just wanted to thank everyone for all the input and suggestions left in this thread to make this brew happen!

Cheers!

 

[Chug]

Hello All,

So I've read this thread start to finish and there is a lot of great stuff in here. I'm new to homebrewing and have one extract and four all grain brews under my belt, the pumking clone being my first attempt at all grain. While not an exact clone the beer came out great and I had a great time brewing it. Just wanted to thank everyone for all the input and suggestions left in this thread to make this brew happen!

Cheers!

Nice to hear. Which recipe did you go with? Did you use the capella graham cracker extract?

 

[WestNittany118]

Nice to hear. Which recipe did you go with? Did you use the capella graham cracker extract?

I went with gwdlaw's recipe on page 20 and I did use the capella graham cracker extract. That recipe called for a tsp of it and after hearing about all the bad metallic after tastes I only put 2 drops in the secondary. I cracked one open about two weeks after bottling because I couldn't wait any longer and it has a very nice subtle hint of the graham cracker and with no metallic after taste. I'd recommend being very conservative with that stuff.

 

[Chug]

I went with gwdlaw's recipe on page 20 and I did use the capella graham cracker extract. That recipe called for a tsp of it and after hearing about all the bad metallic after tastes I only put 2 drops in the secondary. I cracked one open about two weeks after bottling because I couldn't wait any longer and it has a very nice subtle hint of the graham cracker and with no metallic after taste. I'd recommend being very conservative with that stuff.

Yes, I was one of the unfortunate ones to use too much of that stuff. I brewed mine back in late June and it's actually finally starting to calm down but still has a little metallic twang to it. I'll personally never use that stuff again, even the smallest amount.

 

[stblindtiger]

I changed a few things with the recipe (very minor), and added a box of crushed graham crackers to the mash in my third attempt at this. It won it's category (over 30 in the flight) in my local home brew contest and placed second in best of show out of about 340 total entries. It's not Southern Tier, but it's still damn good! Brew on!

 

[cotillion]

I changed a few things with the recipe (very minor), and added a box of crushed graham crackers to the mash in my third attempt at this. It won it's category (over 30 in the flight) in my local home brew contest and placed second in best of show out of about 340 total entries. It's not Southern Tier, but it's still damn good! Brew on!

I did the same thing with the box of graham crackers. After tasting the extract, I got scared off. I definitely get that elusive taste in my beer now, though I had lots of issues during fermentation. Congrats on the win!

 

[sivdrinks]

I did the same thing with the box of graham crackers. After tasting the extract, I got scared off. I definitely get that elusive taste in my beer now, though I had lots of issues during fermentation. Congrats on the win!

So you're saying mashing with Graham crackers was a good thing right? Makes sense to me.

 

[tdawg183]

Has anybody considered Vanilla Chai Tea bags in the secondary?

This is purely coincidental but I prepared this tea for my fiance over the weekend while I was having a pumking. I couldn't help but notice how similar the aroma of the two were (dry tea bag & Pumking).

It's too late for me to try this but I'd consider it an alternative for anybody willing.

 

[ehrichweiss]

Just an FYI for anyone who finds they have to buy a lot of pumpkins for this, cushaw "squash"(or gourds or whatever you happen to think they are) are what's used as pumpkin pie filling commercially. So if you buy Libby's pumpkin pie filling, it's actually cushaw. Cushaw can be bought more cheaply and provides a lot more meat than does pumpkin. My secret is to buy a cushaw with a long neck and small body because then there are fewer seeds(the neck typically doesn't have seeds) and it's lots easier to cut up and roast.

Just a quick tip for anyone who wants to make a lot of this stuff.

 

[h0psnobery]

bump

 

[Greg83]

Hello everyone. I know it's very early to be brewing this gem but pumking is one of my favorite beers. This will be my very first all grain brew and I want to get it right before october rolls around. I know I wont be able to find pumpkins so I will use puree. I had a quick question with the recipe on page 20. I was wondering how much water I start out with in the mash and how much to add when sparging. With all grain do you still add the 2 gallons of cold water at the end into the primary like you do with extracts?

Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[Greg83]

I checked out the calculator here

http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

but even with the descriptions I'm having a hard time figuring it out. How am I supposed to know the trub loss, equipment loss, mash thickness, wort shrinkage and so on?

 

[Broham1]

Hello everyone. I know it's very early to be brewing this gem but pumking is one of my favorite beers. This will be my very first all grain brew and I want to get it right before october rolls around. I know I wont be able to find pumpkins so I will use puree. I had a quick question with the recipe on page 20. I was wondering how much water I start out with in the mash and how much to add when sparging. With all grain do you still add the 2 gallons of cold water at the end into the primary like you do with extracts?

Thanks for any help in advance!

For mash water, pick a mash thickness between 1.0 quarts/lb and 2.0 quarts/lb. I usually do 1.25 quarts/lb.

Then take your total grain weight and multiply by mash thickness. That's the volume of mash water you need.

For sparge water, calculate grain absorption with 0.125 quarts/lb of grain weight. This is how much water the grain will "drink." Subtract this from your mash water and the result should be what you can expect from your first runnings.

Subtract first runnings volume from your desired pre-boil volume and you've got your sparge volume.

This is calculating a full boil, so no, you don't add water to primary like with extract. At the end of the boil you should have your full volume.

 

[Greg83]

Thanks! This original recipe here

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index20.html

suggested he used no sparge brewing. Should I do the same or try sparging? This will be my first all grain brew.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Thanks! This original recipe here

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index20.html

suggested he used no sparge brewing. Should I do the same or try sparging? This will be my first all grain brew.

your question is really more about no sparge brewing in general. In trying a Pumking clone, that issue is quite literally about the least of my concerns, considering nobody even has a reasonably close recipe.

 

[Greg83]

I just thought the grain bill amount differs with sparge and no sparge brewing. I am trying to figure out how much water to add. All the calculators I've seen have sparge amounts. This is my first all grain batch and third total so I'm pretty new to the game.

 

[cotillion]

Just thought I'd weigh in and update. It's been a while since I brewed - my details are a few pages back but I based off the one on something like page 22. I ran into a couple of problems with mashing too high because I wasn't paying attention, so it didn't dry out as much as it should have.

That said, even if I had gotten that part right, the recipe is still a far cry from Pumking. It tastes good and pumpkiny, but it lacks something I can't identify - and it lacks it a lot. I mashed with a box of graham crackers too, which did help a lot with my beer's aroma, but it was not a Pumking clone at all. Back to the drawing board.

 

[sivdrinks]

Just thought I'd weigh in and update. It's been a while since I brewed - my details are a few pages back but I based off the one on something like page 22. I ran into a couple of problems with mashing too high because I wasn't paying attention, so it didn't dry out as much as it should have.

That said, even if I had gotten that part right, the recipe is still a far cry from Pumking. It tastes good and pumpkiny, but it lacks something I can't identify - and it lacks it a lot. I mashed with a box of graham crackers too, which did help a lot with my beer's aroma, but it was not a Pumking clone at all. Back to the drawing board.

Had this on tap last week, bar musta been hoarding it. It is thin, mostly crust and vanilla/whipped cream taste. It was said earlier a high level of diacetyl was detected, I'd agree.

 

[SavoryChef]

Had this on tap last week, bar musta been hoarding it. It is thin, mostly crust and vanilla/whipped cream taste. It was said earlier a high level of diacetyl was detected, I'd agree.

What about adding some whipped cream vodka? There are a couple good ones out there that taste just like whipped cream.

 

[Greg83]

My vanilla beans have been steeping in whipped cream vodka for 2 weeks now so hopefully that will add a nice touch. I mashed a box of graham crackers also but got a pretty low OG. It was supposed to be 1.083 but I got 1.070. I am hoping this number drops drastically to get a nice abv going.

 

[SavoryChef]

My vanilla beans have been steeping in whipped cream vodka for 2 weeks now so hopefully that will add a nice touch. I mashed a box of graham crackers also but got a pretty low OG. It was supposed to be 1.083 but I got 1.070. I am hoping this number drops drastically to get a nice abv going.

Let us know how it turns out

 

[hopmonster2189]

Just brewed a similar recipe up today (not trying to exactly clone southern tier as I've never tried the pumking) so it should be pretty darn swell in the fall. My first pumpkin ale! Thanks to HBT for all the pro advice

16 lb Marris O.
1 lb c-60L
0.5 lb victory
44 oz canned pumpkin (roasted at 350F for an hour then included in the mash)
Mashed around 152

1 oz magnum @ 60

@ 5 min I added 1 tsp fresh ground cinnamon, 1/2 tsp ground ginger, whole cloves, and fresh ground nutmeg.

Used washed 3rd gen 1056 from a 2L starter

OG was 1.087 for about 5.3 gals

Started 2 vanilla beans in some bourbon couple days ago so I'll add that when I bottle in a month or two.

Only other comments are USE rice hulls, I forgot to get them and draining my mash tun took an eternity! It's gonna pay off though my post boil taste showed great promise.