runningweird
Well-Known Member
does anyone have the results of this experiment? I have 5 gallons still in primary as I have been too lazy to rack it off yet.
Southern Tier Pumking Clone??
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mrames
Member
I'm not sure which recipe you used, mine follows, but I wasn't too pleased with mine. It tasted OK but was much darker that the original, was a pain in the butt getting the pumpkin sludge out of the primary and two or three secondary's, ended up with 3 gallons to bottle. If I were ever to do it again, I'd never use canned pumpkin.
Southern Tier Imperial Pumking Ale Clone
4 lbs American Crystal 10L Malt
3 lb Breiss Pilsen DME (60 min)
6 lb Briess Pilsen DME (30 min-late addition)
3 lb 10 oz pumpkin puree (2 1lb,13oz cans), (60 min)
1/2 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose-30 min-late addition)
1 tsp Cinnamon, (1 Stick ground) (10 min)
1/2 tsp Nutmeg, (10 min)
1/2 tsp Ginger, (10 min)
1/2 tsp Cloves, (whole cloves, ground)(10 min)
1/2 tsp Allspice, (whole allspice ground)(10 min)
2 tsp Irish Moss (15 min)
1 tsp Vanilla Bean (1 bean ground)
1 Vanilla Bean (Secondary only if needed)
5 oz Corn Sugar, priming, bottling
WLP002 English Ale Yeast
.5 oz. Magnum (Pellets 13.1% AA), 60 min
1 oz. Sterling (Pellets 6% AA), 10 min
Procedure:
Add Grains to 5.25 gallon of cold water, heat to 175° T1@175° 1745
Maintain 175° temp for 45 minutes T1+45 1830
Rinse grain with quart 175° water, bring to boil, add 3# DME & Hops (watch for boil over!) T2@boil 1910
Boil for 30 minutes and add 6# DME & lactose (watch for boil over!) T2+30 1940
Boil for 15 minutes more and add irish moss T2+45 1955
Boil for 5 minutes more and add hops and spices T2+50 2000
Continue untill all DME dissolved T2+60 2010
Finish boil for 10 minute T2+70 2020
Cool wort from 212° to 70° as quickly as possible T3@212° 2023
Wort at 180° T3@180° 2026
Wort at 140° T3@140° 2033
Wort at 100° T3@100° 2048
Wort at 80° T3@80° 2055
Put airstone in and rack wort into primary fermenter
Take SG reading and record. Pitch yeast and seal up
Notes:
Started with 5.25 gal water, ended boil with 5 gallon and a SG of 1.102 @ 84° nc. The wort was very thick because of pumpkin pulp, not practical to strain off so it went into primary, pulp and all, checked SG several times, starts out a 1.110 but settles in at 1.102 nc.
Southern Tier Imperial Pumking Ale Clone
4 lbs American Crystal 10L Malt
3 lb Breiss Pilsen DME (60 min)
6 lb Briess Pilsen DME (30 min-late addition)
3 lb 10 oz pumpkin puree (2 1lb,13oz cans), (60 min)
1/2 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose-30 min-late addition)
1 tsp Cinnamon, (1 Stick ground) (10 min)
1/2 tsp Nutmeg, (10 min)
1/2 tsp Ginger, (10 min)
1/2 tsp Cloves, (whole cloves, ground)(10 min)
1/2 tsp Allspice, (whole allspice ground)(10 min)
2 tsp Irish Moss (15 min)
1 tsp Vanilla Bean (1 bean ground)
1 Vanilla Bean (Secondary only if needed)
5 oz Corn Sugar, priming, bottling
WLP002 English Ale Yeast
.5 oz. Magnum (Pellets 13.1% AA), 60 min
1 oz. Sterling (Pellets 6% AA), 10 min
Procedure:
Add Grains to 5.25 gallon of cold water, heat to 175° T1@175° 1745
Maintain 175° temp for 45 minutes T1+45 1830
Rinse grain with quart 175° water, bring to boil, add 3# DME & Hops (watch for boil over!) T2@boil 1910
Boil for 30 minutes and add 6# DME & lactose (watch for boil over!) T2+30 1940
Boil for 15 minutes more and add irish moss T2+45 1955
Boil for 5 minutes more and add hops and spices T2+50 2000
Continue untill all DME dissolved T2+60 2010
Finish boil for 10 minute T2+70 2020
Cool wort from 212° to 70° as quickly as possible T3@212° 2023
Wort at 180° T3@180° 2026
Wort at 140° T3@140° 2033
Wort at 100° T3@100° 2048
Wort at 80° T3@80° 2055
Put airstone in and rack wort into primary fermenter
Take SG reading and record. Pitch yeast and seal up
Notes:
Started with 5.25 gal water, ended boil with 5 gallon and a SG of 1.102 @ 84° nc. The wort was very thick because of pumpkin pulp, not practical to strain off so it went into primary, pulp and all, checked SG several times, starts out a 1.110 but settles in at 1.102 nc.
this is what i used. I like it but next time i will put in the correct amount of sugar
mrames
Member
Our recipies are actually quite similar, your's has slightly more fermentables, slightly different spice amounts and add times. I am a grain/extract brewer by both necessity and choice. My biggest problem was the pumpkin pulp. If I were to use your roasted pumpkin, how/where would I add it in? The brew kettle? Would it break down into pulp and leave me with a mess again? In the primary as whole chunks? I really like the beer but not it mess the pumpkin makes of the beer.
Moody_Copperpot
Well-Known Member
You've gotta mash with the pumpkin, don't put it in the boil at all or you'll get pumpkin soup. I haven't tried this recipe exactly, but I brewed a VERY successful pumpkin ale and the pumpkin goes in the mash. You'll get that pumpkin flavor from the mash, trust me.
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runningweird
Well-Known Member
so I just cracked one of the bottles from my first batch. some caveats first: I didn't check my og when I made it, I just mashed and went. It smelled great in the pot, in the carboy and going into the bottles. after bottling I waited 4 weeks and cracked one open.
results: its good, sweet-I used 10 ounces of lactose and next time I will dial it back, low in carbonation but that may be because its higher in alcohol. It tastes like a quadruple with notes of fruit and pumkin.
I made a second batch of this and it is sitting in the fermenter right now, I just need more bottles in my stash to bottle it. with the second batch I hit my OG and it seems much thicker and higher in body.
would I make this again? with 10 gallons sitting around probably not, I will let it age and drink it once in a while. Its like a dessert beer at this point or one to give away near holidays. I will make more pumpkin beer, but probably something less sweet with more spice character. This is a great recipe and I thank those that worked on making it. my results are likely the result of my own error and I encourage everyone to give this one a try.
I will post the results of my next batch and successive tastings.
results: its good, sweet-I used 10 ounces of lactose and next time I will dial it back, low in carbonation but that may be because its higher in alcohol. It tastes like a quadruple with notes of fruit and pumkin.
I made a second batch of this and it is sitting in the fermenter right now, I just need more bottles in my stash to bottle it. with the second batch I hit my OG and it seems much thicker and higher in body.
would I make this again? with 10 gallons sitting around probably not, I will let it age and drink it once in a while. Its like a dessert beer at this point or one to give away near holidays. I will make more pumpkin beer, but probably something less sweet with more spice character. This is a great recipe and I thank those that worked on making it. my results are likely the result of my own error and I encourage everyone to give this one a try.
I will post the results of my next batch and successive tastings.
any more reviews on this one? i might brew it in a couple months
1. No pumpkin necessary
2. If you're shooting for a pumking clone, eliminate the cinnamon. Increase the ginger.
3. Mash very high (i.e., 160). No lactose necessary if you do this.
4. Don't be shy with the vanilla. I did 4 tsp extract per carboy. Or, 2 split beans.
ThomEHof
Active Member
When you say large pumpkin, can I get more details?
Seems like that time of year to revive this thread again. Really researching how to try and do this beer, and I'd love to hear an update from those of you that posted last year.
What would you do differently? Were you happy with your results? Are you trying it again this year?
Let's talk pumpkin beers again.
What would you do differently? Were you happy with your results? Are you trying it again this year?
Let's talk pumpkin beers again.
Definitely use candied ginger, not the others.
I love Pumking. I've attempted to clone 3 years in a row. I am getting close (just had one of this year's clones last night). Can't wait to do a direct comparison.
Here are the keys (IMO).
Here are the keys (IMO).
- Either mash at a high temp or use lactose. Need to keep the FG up a bit. Also, needs that residual sweetness that pumking has.
- Use very little cinnamon. I think I went with that 0.12oz recommendation from earlier in this thread (or elsewhere).
- Lotsa vanilla.
- Lotsa ginger.
I used dry ground ginger (spice rack) and vanilla bean originally. At the end of fermentation, I did a taste test and decided to add more of both.
So I then added a bunch of candied ginger (that I already had), as well as some real vanilla extract.
So I actually spoke with someone at ST last night. He didn't give me specifics but told me that they use an alcohol based spice mixture of Cinnamon, Nutmeg, and cloves. He told me that he's heard of people having success on a smaller scale making a tincture using 151 and their spices. He said it's all added after it ferments out.
I know he's not telling me the WHOLE story because there is certainly vanilla in this beer. But cool that he shared some information.
I know he's not telling me the WHOLE story because there is certainly vanilla in this beer. But cool that he shared some information.
i spoke with the head brewer last year and my info is quite different, but my clone attempt was horrid.. i believe it was way over spiced. He was VERY VERY VERY reluctant to give any information but never mentioned anything about doing a tincture and he also said add at the last 10 mins of the boil.. i guess take my advice and what lodovico said with a grain of salt or something.. not sure what to believe on this beer 
they just wont talk much.
they just wont talk much.Did any of you that added canned pumpkin or canned pumpkin pie filling end up with what literally looks like a pumpkin pie on the top of your fermenter? Mine has been in primary for 10 days so I decided to take a reading. I took off the top and had to poke down through about a half inch of pumpkin sludge to get to the beer.
And I'm talking thick sludge. Not like sediment floating in beer. Sludge. It did not taste like I expected. It's only down to 1.020 but I was shooting for a high OG. I haven't had an infected beer in 4 years of brewing, but I'm wondering what's going on with this or if it's normal for all of the pie can additives to collect at the top like this.
What do you think?
And I'm talking thick sludge. Not like sediment floating in beer. Sludge. It did not taste like I expected. It's only down to 1.020 but I was shooting for a high OG. I haven't had an infected beer in 4 years of brewing, but I'm wondering what's going on with this or if it's normal for all of the pie can additives to collect at the top like this.
What do you think?
ThomEHof
Active Member
Going to brew this next week-end, but have an off topic question.
Anybody have a Southern Tier Krampus recipe.
Anybody have a Southern Tier Krampus recipe.
i spoke with the head brewer last year and my info is quite different, but my clone attempt was horrid.. i believe it was way over spiced. He was VERY VERY VERY reluctant to give any information but never mentioned anything about doing a tincture and he also said add at the last 10 mins of the boil.. i guess take my advice and what lodovico said with a grain of salt or something.. not sure what to believe on this beer
No, I'm really confident in the info I received from ST. I've been friends with this guy since high school and he wouldn't be leading me astray. I'm positive that this is how they add their spices. Specific amounts would be helpful, but he didn't have that information last time we spoke.
Tasted my attempt last night when I racked to secondary and I'm pretty disappointed. Granted, I just added the tincture but I think this is going to miss the mark by quite a bit. It finished where I wanted it (1.018), but we'll see how it rounds out when it sits on the spices for a bit.
Just made my attempt Friday.
OG 1078
IBU 35
SRM 7.5
mash 155F
US-05 slurry
13 lb Maris Otter
1 lb homemade biscuit Maris Otter
1 lb Carapils
4 lb oven roasted sweet potato (150F for 1hr to convert starches, then 350F for 1 hr) in mash, then boiled in grain bag for 90 min
.5 oz magnum 90 min
1 oz Tettnanger 5 min
10 min:
.5 tsp Cinnamon stick ground (real cinnamon!)
.75 tsp ground organic ginger
.25 tsp fresh ground nutmeg
.25 tsp fresh ground cloves
2 vanilla pods soaked in vodka for 10d in 2ndry
spice tea from above soaked in vodka for 10d in 2ndry (**If necessary**)
I went a bit different than the posted recipes. Firstly I feel that the beer is a lower SRM than the posted 8.8. For such a big beer I found it to be a very light orange thus went with carapils over dark crystal. Went with MO malt, b/c that's what I had on hand and will likely make a better beer than blander domestic 2-row.
I think the secret to any spiced beer is to use the best, freshest spices. Try and find real cinnamon. 99% of cinnamon in stores is a bark that mimics cinnamon. Real cinnamon is much more brittle than the fake sticks, and the aroma of real cinnamon is fare more subtle aromatics than the "hot" bark. I literally went to different health food stores smelling ginger, and picking the nicest one. One smelled hot and I picked the most aromatic one. Ground nutmeg deteriorates quickly, while fresh pods will be full of oily aromatic goodness.
The smell out of the blow off is gingerbread cookie.
I will update in a 6 weeks.
OG 1078
IBU 35
SRM 7.5
mash 155F
US-05 slurry
13 lb Maris Otter
1 lb homemade biscuit Maris Otter
1 lb Carapils
4 lb oven roasted sweet potato (150F for 1hr to convert starches, then 350F for 1 hr) in mash, then boiled in grain bag for 90 min
.5 oz magnum 90 min
1 oz Tettnanger 5 min
10 min:
.5 tsp Cinnamon stick ground (real cinnamon!)
.75 tsp ground organic ginger
.25 tsp fresh ground nutmeg
.25 tsp fresh ground cloves
2 vanilla pods soaked in vodka for 10d in 2ndry
spice tea from above soaked in vodka for 10d in 2ndry (**If necessary**)
I went a bit different than the posted recipes. Firstly I feel that the beer is a lower SRM than the posted 8.8. For such a big beer I found it to be a very light orange thus went with carapils over dark crystal. Went with MO malt, b/c that's what I had on hand and will likely make a better beer than blander domestic 2-row.
I think the secret to any spiced beer is to use the best, freshest spices. Try and find real cinnamon. 99% of cinnamon in stores is a bark that mimics cinnamon. Real cinnamon is much more brittle than the fake sticks, and the aroma of real cinnamon is fare more subtle aromatics than the "hot" bark. I literally went to different health food stores smelling ginger, and picking the nicest one. One smelled hot and I picked the most aromatic one. Ground nutmeg deteriorates quickly, while fresh pods will be full of oily aromatic goodness.
The smell out of the blow off is gingerbread cookie.
I will update in a 6 weeks.
Ghoststrider
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Bonesey:
1) What kind of yeast did you use?
2) Your "Spice Tea", is that just a duplication of the spices you used in the boil?
I was thinking about doing a pumpkin this week but was going to try a decoction with the pumpkin in that instead of in the boil.
*to anybody* I was going to do 10 gallons, one to keg and one to bottle. I intend on using ale yeast for primary and secondary and then just add lager to the second batch for bottle conditioning. Does anybody know of a good lager yeast to use just to carbonate? I have access to most White Labs and Wyeast brands.
US-05
spice tea was close to original mix with a bit less cloves (they are potent!). I will add a bit at a time if needed.
Yeah, don't boil the pumpkin unless it's in a bag or you'll loose like half your beer. I went with sweet potatoes for several reasons: more sugar PPG, in season vegetable, and more taste than pumpkin (hopefully).
spice tea was close to original mix with a bit less cloves (they are potent!). I will add a bit at a time if needed.
Yeah, don't boil the pumpkin unless it's in a bag or you'll loose like half your beer. I went with sweet potatoes for several reasons: more sugar PPG, in season vegetable, and more taste than pumpkin (hopefully).
bulldogbrit
Member
Ive tried 5 times to clone this thus far, the use of canned pumpkin (2-3 lbs) in both boil (soup - nightmare - dont do it) - added to primary, again dont bother unless you enjoy watchin half a batch of your beer turn to soup, and in the secondary (ditto). My conclusion - its not happening with anything from a can in a home set up. As mentioned before in this thread you loose too much of the good stuff, but you do get the flavor. I havent tried baking it which might be a way to go regards preventing the soup problem.
The closest Ive got is through playing with an Octoberfest extract kit with 2lbs of Amber Candy Sugar, Safale 05, pumkin pie mix in the secondary (1/2 teaspoon with Vodka), and additional ginger powder (1/4 cup from the local Indian market store added to the boil). My apologies for offending any purists out there by the way. I didnt add Vanilla to the secondary /or bottling and I suspect this will make all the difference (as might lactose for sweetness). It wasnt sweet enough but it did have the body and content (7.4%).
Im now considering the use of Pumpkin extract oil rather than cans but not sure how this will add if anything to the pumkin pie mix spices. Now you mention it I dont get cinnamon in the original which has JUST NOW come out for the year in my area (so using pumpkin pie mix might be a problem here).
The idea of using cubed baked pumpkin also interest me, but Im not convinced this does anything other than qualify for the use of 'organic' in the title.
What doesnt interest me much though, is paying $9 for a bottle of the real deal
As an aside - if any of you venture to the old country, pick up a bottle of Blandford Fly - its the closest thing I can compare to Pumking as a great dessert beer with wonderful ginger tones (but without the pumpkin).
The closest Ive got is through playing with an Octoberfest extract kit with 2lbs of Amber Candy Sugar, Safale 05, pumkin pie mix in the secondary (1/2 teaspoon with Vodka), and additional ginger powder (1/4 cup from the local Indian market store added to the boil). My apologies for offending any purists out there by the way. I didnt add Vanilla to the secondary /or bottling and I suspect this will make all the difference (as might lactose for sweetness). It wasnt sweet enough but it did have the body and content (7.4%).
Im now considering the use of Pumpkin extract oil rather than cans but not sure how this will add if anything to the pumkin pie mix spices. Now you mention it I dont get cinnamon in the original which has JUST NOW come out for the year in my area (so using pumpkin pie mix might be a problem here).
The idea of using cubed baked pumpkin also interest me, but Im not convinced this does anything other than qualify for the use of 'organic' in the title.
What doesnt interest me much though, is paying $9 for a bottle of the real deal
As an aside - if any of you venture to the old country, pick up a bottle of Blandford Fly - its the closest thing I can compare to Pumking as a great dessert beer with wonderful ginger tones (but without the pumpkin).
Your comments are exactly what I've been aiming for (see my comments earlier in this thread). I've got a decent clone right now and I waiting for Pumking to become available down here to compare (probably this week).
very little / no cinnamon, lots of vanilla, lots of ginger, possible lactose (or mash high). (I don't use pumpkin at all, as I don't want to fiddle with that, so I might technically be cheating a little, but if I can achieve my cloning attempt then I don't care)
governorkc
Well-Known Member
when you add ginger why are you using ground ginger? fresh ginger has a lot more flavor and some of you had said that the ginger flavor was lost.
just curious. I'm gonna try to make one of these soon.
just curious. I'm gonna try to make one of these soon.
bulldogbrit
Member
For me - the same reason I wont add real pumpkin from here on in - mess, wastage, utilization. Of course I should be scientific about this, perhaps brew a base beer and then experiment in gal jugs with different measures / spices / organics versus oils versus powder. But then the wife would likely divorce me.
OK, challenge accepted.
OK, challenge accepted.
