SN Celebration Ale Clone Recipe?

[Zen_Brew]

Nice notes and good job. I'm glad you found a closer supply of the real SNCA.
I did a slightly modded version of Tasty Mcdoles about 6 months ago that I put next to a real one and I thought it was pretty darn close. I'd share the recipe but it is in beer smith on the hard rive of a dead laptop that I haven't gotten around to pulling the drive from yet.

It was my third or fourth attempt at it, although the first two maybe shouldn't count, as being my favorite beer it was the first one I ever tried to brew, and then re-attempt about two months later. I know I didn't have my ferm temps in order yet, and I'm sure there were other process issues that I have gotten much better at.

Any ways, enjoy.

Cheers

 

[KingBrianI]

Just compared the clone to the real thing again with a buddy this afternoon. We figured out a few more things. First, the real SNCA had some centennial hop aroma this time around. And it seems like the hop flavor is mostly from centennial, not from chinook like I previously thought. So I'm going to reduce the 30 minute chinook addition and maybe move it closer to the beginning of the boil. I'm also going to eliminate the flameout cascade and add some centennial flameout hops. Maybe reduce the cascade dry hops as well. The biggest difference though is that the real SNCA is much more malty in both aroma and flavor. I'll mash at 154 instead of 152 the next attempt, and use british carastan malt in place of the crystal 55. I'll also up the carastan to 1.5 lbs and eliminate the carapils as previously mentioned.

 

[pernox]

I'm tasting my first pint of this after kegging on Tuesday and carbing over the last two days.

This is a fantastic, flavorful beer with a clean hop aroma and flavor that is very, very tasty. Even my first cloudy and not-quite-perfectly-carbed pint is getting me cranked up and excited.

And to close the earlier discussion, the corked bottle I saw was a SN Anniversary brew - not Celebration.

-edit- Pint #2 is better than #1.

 

[KingBrianI]

Attempt 2 at this clone will occur tomorrow. I've tweaked the recipe according to the side-by-side comparison with the real thing. I think this recipe should fix a few of the differences and get me even closer to a true "clone". The main corrections will be that this one should be maltier, thicker, more caramelly, less cascade-y and more centennially than the last attempt. Here's the revised recipe:

SNCA clone v.2

OG 1.066
IBU 65
SRM 9

6 gallon post-boil volume targeted

11.79 lb (5350 g) 2-row pale malt (86.31%)
1.87 lb (850 g) british carastan 34L malt (13.69%)

1.61 oz chinook @60
0.75 oz centennial @10
0.25 oz cascade @10
0.75 oz centennial DH
0.25 oz cascade DH

mash @ 154 for 60 min

water profile will be:
Ca Mg Na CO3 SO4 Cl
142 5 25 78 250 28

Which is a 9:1 SO4:Cl ratio as reported by SN's brewer to me
and a RA of 23, that should be perfect for a 9 SRM beer.

I've moved the flameout hops to 10 min in order to get some flavor from them and adjusted the centennial and cascade from a 1:1 ratio to a 3:1 ratio in order to get more centennial in the beer. I've also removed the 30 min chinook addition because after tasting the real SNCA, I didn't get any chinook flavor, only it's unique bitterness.

You'll also notice I removed the carapils, which I don't think belongs in this beer, and I used carastan malt, since I really dig its flavor and think it will bring that caramelly, malty richness to the beer that the first attempt was missing. And the extra malt, along with the higher mash temp should increase the body.

I think the biggest improvement will come as a result of my tweaked water profile. The more I experiment with high sulfate:chloride ratios, the more difference I find they make in hop-forward beers. I think high levels of chloride extract harshness from hops and that has plagued some of my hoppy beers in the past. A vegetal astringency is sometimes present that I'm now contributing to high chloride levels. Hopefully, this profile will provide that tingly, strong bitterness of SNCA while leaving behind any vegetal or astringent flavors.

We'll see how it goes. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Zen_Brew]

I think that is pretty close. I'll look forward to your notes. I am holding off on rebrewing an attempt on this until maybe late Sept early Oct or so. I am looking into buying a house which means all the lovely moving chaos, and I need to shrink the pipeline a bit in the short term. The benefit of course is fresh SNCA should be on the store shelves as my beer is coming into it's own.

FYI. The newest Brewing Network Sunday Session had the head brewer from SN on the show and he gave the official recipe portions for this beer late in the show. It likely needs some tweaks for a home system, but still pretty cool of him.

 

[KingBrianI]

FYI. The newest Brewing Network Sunday Session had the head brewer from SN on the show and he gave the official recipe portions for this beer late in the show. It likely needs some tweaks for a home system, but still pretty cool of him.

Wow, I wish I knew about that before! Thanks for the info, that was some good info. Looks like they target 11-12% crystal 60 with the remainder 2-row pale, as we already knew. I haven't decided yet whether I'll stick with the carastan or go with the c60 steve suggested. Looks like I was right in that chinook is only added in one bittering addition and all the flavor additions come from cascade and centennial. The ratio he said they used was 2:1 cascade:centennial, with equal additions at 10-15 minutes and flameout, and a small addition for dry-hopping. Hmmm, decisions, decisions. Do I change my recipe to reflect this info, or stick with what I had planned? It's a tough life, being a homebrewer.

 

[KingBrianI]

Alright, so I decided to do the recipe the brewer gave on the sunday session. Might as well since I have it now, right? Anyway, here's what it looks like for a 6 gallon batch at 80% efficiency. I've scaled the hop additions down from the 100 bbl batch he said they use but it wasn't giving me nearly enough bitterness, so I almost doubled the chinook addition in order to get the IBUs where he said they were. Everything else is scaled exactly to what he said they do at the brewery.

SNCA Clone (SN verified)

OG 1.068 -> FG 1.015
IBU 68

12.5 lbs 2-row pale malt (he mentioned they use canadian 2-row)
1.55 lbs british crystal 55 (he said c60, but also said british, which is usally 55L)

1.52 oz chinook @ 60 (directly scaled from his recipe it would be 0.77 oz, but that only gave me like 44 IBU for the beer)
1.24 oz cascade @ 10
0.62 oz centennial @ 10
1.24 oz cascade @ FO
0.62 oz centennial @ FO
1 oz cascade DH
0.5 oz centennial DH

He suggested mashing at 156 F!

Pitch chico yeast @ 62 F and let it rise and plateau at 68 F.

It's coming in over 10 SRM using that grain bill, so I'm pretty sure it's going to be too dark, but hopefully since it's the grain bill they use, the taste will be identical. Should be good!

 

[jmo88]

I just listened to this today and had some fun playing with the numbers. The hops are really heavily weighted toward the end of the boil. If you convert the hops to percentages, it makes it really simple. He gave the recipe for a 100 barrel batch and if you add up all of the hops, you get a total of 195 lbs used for the whole recipe. If you cut the weight of each addition in half, you basically get the percentages of each addition:

12.5% chinook bittering
30% Cascade/Centennial blend (2-to1 ratio respectively) at 15 minutes
30% Cascade/Centennial blend (2-to1 ratio respectively) at flameout
27.5% Cascade/Centennial blend (2-to1 ratio respectively) dry hop

Shooting for a IBU of 68 makes the numbers easy. The following gives you 67 IBU's using Tinseth. Of course the AA% of the hops can make a difference, but this should be REALLY close assuming you get the same utilization as Sierra Nevada.

1.25oz Chinook boil
3oz Centennial/Cascade 15 minutes
3oz Centennial/Cascade flameout
2.75 Centennial/Cascade dry hop

These numbers are really far from the two clones I've attempted. In my attempts I didn't try to get 1/3 of my IBU's from the 15 minute addition–plus use all that at flameout.

I can't wait to try this one soon.

 

[KingBrianI]

jmo, i thought about calculating it that way, but i decided to use the same amount of hops/gallon as SN, and just up the bittering addition to get the right bitterness. my calculations were like this:

100 bbl = 3100 gal

40 lb cascade / 3100 gal = 0.0129 lb/gal
0.0129 lb/gal x 6 gal = 0.0774 lb / batch
0.0774 lb = 1.24 oz

and so on for the other additions. I'm not sure if he stated the wrong numbers or what, but there's no way they get 68 ibu from the additions he listed. so my options were to scale up all the hops equally to hit 68 ibu, or just increase the bittering addition, which i had to do since i only had just enough cascade and centennial to do the recipe as written.

 

[jmo88]

I see what you mean. Getting 68 IBU for 100 bbl with the quantities he stated doesn't work. I didn't think to check it that way. They must have a way of getting MUCH better utilization than the typical homebrew setup, which makes sense. Raising the bittering but keeping the ratio of the later additions the same, like you have above, will probably work well.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Brian,

I'm excited to see updates/your results as they come in - i plan on throwing this one together this fall.

 

[KingBrianI]

Brian,

I'm excited to see updates/your results as they come in - i plan on throwing this one together this fall.

I think I'm going to pull a gravity sample this afternoon so I'll have an idea how it tastes then. Then I'll rack to secondary sometime soon if it is at a good gravity and add the dry hops.

 

[KingBrianI]

Flavor is spot-damn-on. This is MUCH closer than the last attempt. It's not just closer, it is SNCA. Mine tastes exactly like the real thing, even warm and flat, except that mine is slightly sweeter as it's still at about 1.020. I'm attempting to rouse and get it to attenuate a few more points but even if it doesn't....damn. This latest recipe is perfect. I don't even think it needs dry hops.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Brian, in your last iteration of the recipe, you've got the following hop schedule:

1.24 oz cascade @ 10
0.62 oz centennial @ 10
1.24 oz cascade @ FO
0.62 oz cascade @ FO
1 oz cascade DH
0.5 oz cascade DH

Did you intend for this to actually be?:

1.24 oz cascade @ 10
0.62 oz centennial @ 10
1.24 oz cascade @ FO
0.62 oz centennial @ FO
1 oz cascade DH
0.5 oz centennial DH

 

[KingBrianI]

Oops, you're absolutely correct. I just changed the original post to reflect the correct hops. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Kirbster]

Inquiring minds want to know Brian, how did this turn out? We are awfully close to the release of the '10 Celebration Ale.

 

[niquejim]

One more, and it tastes dead on

Re: Dean Larson's SNCA


It is a great recipe. This was the one recommended from Denny:

Size: 11.5 gal
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 210.65 per 12.0 fl oz
Boil: 75 minutes
Original Gravity: 1.063 (1.056 - 1.075)
Terminal Gravity: 1.016 (1.010 - 1.018)
Color: 12.5 (6.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 6.22% (5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 49.95 (40.0 - 60.0)

Ingredients:
24.0 lbs Standard 2-Row
2.0 lbs Crystal 60
1 lbs Carapils®/Carafoam®
2.0 oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
0.5 oz Chinook (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
2.0 oz Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
1.0 oz Cascade (5.5%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
1.0 oz Centennial (10.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
2.0 ea Servomyces - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
2.0 ea Whirlfloc Tablets (Irish moss) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min
2.0 ea White Labs WLP001 California Ale

Schedule:
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 0.0 m

00:34:09 Mash In - Liquor: 8.44 gal; Strike: 162.3 °F; Target: 150.0 °F
01:34:09 Saccharification Rest - Rest: 60.0 min; Final: 154.0 °F
01:40:56 Mash Out - Heat: 6.8 min; Target: 168.0 °F
02:25:56 Sparge - Sparge: 7.43 gal sparge @ 170.0 °F, 12.69 gal collected, 45.0 min; Total Runoff: 13.01 gal

Notes:
1 Tsp Gypsum 60 Min

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.0.30

Kegged another copy of this one today, as good as always

 

[KingBrianI]

Inquiring minds want to know Brian, how did this turn out? We are awfully close to the release of the '10 Celebration Ale.

I'm actually kegging it tonight. I've been waiting for a keg to open up and hoping it would attenuate a bit more in the meantime. Just took a gravity sample and sadly, it hasn't dropped since the last time.

The taste was really close the last time I tasted it. I would say this recipe will create something as close to the real thing as is possible using different equipment than SN. If it would have attenuated down to 1.016 or so, I'm not sure I could have picked out of a blind taste test with the real one. Unfortunately, this attempt is noticeably sweeter and I noticed some oxidation in tonights gravity sample. That is no doubt due to me rousing the hell out of it repeatedly trying to get it to attenuate down. The hop character has also dissipated some, and whereas my first taste test didn't need any dry hopping to match the real thing, it now needs some. It's still good though, and I will enjoy this keg. The extra sweetness won't be a problem once the outdoor temps drop and the slight oxidation doesn't detract too much from the beer.

I will definitely be doing this recipe again though. I had a rash of attenuation problems start at the same time as I started using an aeration stone with pure oxygen exclusively to aerate. I guess it wasn't getting enough O2 into solution for some reason. So now I'm back to shaking and using pure O2 to aerate and attenuation is back to normal. I think the next attempt will be just the thing to cure the withdrawal once this seasons SNCA runs out.

 

[Zen_Brew]

Brian. I have a thought or two on using pure O2 as I use it also. I'm not sure what your process is, but I will tell you my thinking and the process that has worked for me. If you think about the dynamics, just sinking an O2 stone and bubbling for a minute or so only exposes a limited amount of the wort to the O2 as it bubbles through the wort and then into the head space and out of the vessel.

I ferment in better bottles. Based on some stuff I have read, I drop the O2 stone to near the bottom of my carboy, then swirl the carboy in circles on a tennis ball while I am aerating. This gives a much greater volume of wort exposure to the O2 bubbling into it as well as picking up more in the head space due to the constant agitation. There is always new wort being exposed to the stream of O2 and the head space. I have gotten consistent good attenuation with this method.

 

[cactusgarrett]

This also matches what Jamil was saying during a Brew Strong podcast on aeration. The point of the bubbling is to get the wort on the top continuously exposed to oxygen by turning over the wort physically. The amount of oxygen dissolved at the point of bubbles is actually very minimal compared to what is required for "decent" levels of aeration. So, swirling to get the headspace's oxygen further into the wort makes sense, FWIW.

 

[VanHolton]

Alright, so I decided to do the recipe the brewer gave on the sunday session. Might as well since I have it now, right? Anyway, here's what it looks like for a 6 gallon batch at 80% efficiency. I've scaled the hop additions down from the 100 bbl batch he said they use but it wasn't giving me nearly enough bitterness, so I almost doubled the chinook addition in order to get the IBUs where he said they were. Everything else is scaled exactly to what he said they do at the brewery.

SNCA Clone (SN verified)

OG 1.068 -> FG 1.015
IBU 68

12.5 lbs 2-row pale malt (he mentioned they use canadian 2-row)
1.55 lbs british crystal 55 (he said c60, but also said british, which is usally 55L)

1.52 oz chinook @ 60 (directly scaled from his recipe it would be 0.77 oz, but that only gave me like 44 IBU for the beer)
1.24 oz cascade @ 10
0.62 oz centennial @ 10
1.24 oz cascade @ FO
0.62 oz centennial @ FO
1 oz cascade DH
0.5 oz centennial DH

He suggested mashing at 156 F!

Pitch chico yeast @ 62 F and let it rise and plateau at 68 F.

It's coming in over 10 SRM using that grain bill, so I'm pretty sure it's going to be too dark, but hopefully since it's the grain bill they use, the taste will be identical. Should be good!

Just a couple questions, because I will be brewing this this weekend:

Did you really mash at 156? Do you think that had anything to do with your 1.020 FG, or are you thinking it was strictly your aeration?

Also, is this recipe assuming 80% efficiency?

Thanks!!

 

[humann_brewing]

just got a 1st with my celebration clone based off of tastys recipe. I am happy, I wasn't even going to enter it.

 

[VanHolton]

I brewed this this morning, and I can't wait for it to be ready! When I went to the LHBS, they usually stock 2 brands of 2-row, and they were down to the last little bit of both. I ended up with 12 lbs of two row between the two brands, and topped off with 1 lb of golden promise (I'm at 75% eff, hence the additional grain).

Unfortunately, I didn't boil off as much as I did two weeks ago. It's been pretty mild weather up here in MN, and I ended up with 6.5 gallons rather than 6 so my numbers are a tad off. Also, my fermenter is really, really full. I put it in a swamp cooler to try to keep blowoff to a minimum, and rigged up a second rate blow off hose.

All in all, I was pitched and cleaned up by 10am! Color looks good so far, and the wort sample tasted great. I'll post updates as I get them.

 

[JeffBeck]

Any updates on this stuff, I'm curious about this recipe.

 

[VanHolton]

I'm going to bottle on Saturday, and I'll let you know how it tastes warm and uncarbed. I just dryhopped and took a gravity reading this past Sunday (3 weeks in primary) and it tasted good. Not as rich as the real deal, but maybe a carbed up, cold bottle will be closer in a few weeks. For what it's worth, my control beer was of the 2008 vintage. I plan on getting some 2010 to do a comparison when mine's ready.

 

[humann_brewing]

Any updates on this stuff, I'm curious about this recipe.

The recipe that I used is hopped up quite a bit more in flavor and aroma hops and also has some munich malt in it but made for a fantastic beer that I like better than Celebration if that is possible. Also one me a 1st place in a BJCP comp.

 

[JeffBeck]

Humman, Did you post it?

 

[humann_brewing]

Humman, Did you post it?

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 13.77 gal
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 11.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 77.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
19.10 lb Great Western 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 82.40 %
1.36 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.87 %
1.36 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.87 %
0.68 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.93 %
0.68 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2.93 %
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Chinook [11.00 %] (85 min) Hops 35.4 IBU
2.00 oz Chinook [11.00 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 6.7 IBU
4.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (15 min) Hops 28.5 IBU
4.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
4.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [StartYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 23.18 lb
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Saccharification Add 36.00 qt of water at 160.9 F 152.0 F
10 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F

 

[fuhmon]

Just picked up this years celebration ale at the store... I had forgotten how amazing this beer is for a winter ale. Was listening to a Jamil Show archive and they were talking about a SNCA clone and it got me super stoked to make one myself

 

[benver]

ok, I'll be that guy...
any chance of anyone having an extract version of this recipie?

thanks in advance