Single Vessel, All Electric, NS, NC Brewery

[CamelToeJoe]

Keg dimensions

Height of keg 23.3 inches
Diameter of keg 16.1–17.15627 inches

Pelican Sky Pots

82 quart 18.75" d X 17" h
102 quart 18.25" d X 21.25" h
122 quart 21.25" d X 19" h


55 gallon drum

23"d X 35" h

So half a keg would be about the same as the largest pelicansky pot. It even looks like a keg would fit in the pots also. Either way would work. I would rather use a keg than the basket. Seems a lot easier to fabricate.

I might have a new project to do. I really like the fact of being able to pull the false bottom out of the slit in the keg and the grains drop out the bottom into a trash can. Then just spray out the keg slip the screen back in and add your hops to the boil, Couldn't take 5 mins to clean.


And with a keg, it would displace more water, driving the height of your water a few more inches higher in the vessel, ensuring more grains get exposed.

 

[ScubaSteve]

A keg would be really difficult to drill all those holes in....that stainless is thick! I think if you plan on doing huge batches, a keg might work, but if you plan on cutting it in half/doing smaller batches, then it's probably easier/more aesthetic to just use a basket with uniform holes and a handle.

 

[CamelToeJoe]

take the keg... Cut a 6-7 inch round hole in the bottom for a drain.....put a complete false bottom inside the keg. DONE one hole cut. No holes drilled.

To get real slick.... Cut a slit 3/4 around the bottom of the keg so you can slide the screen in and out of place... The easy dump method... Slide the FB out and the grains fall out the bottom.

I am not talking about cutting a keg in half.. But the 55 gallon drum.

if you mash with a keggle you have a FB... Cut a hole under the FB. When you lift the keg the FB holds the grains... The wort drains out the hole into the 55 gallon/pot.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Okay....so I've been toying with Sketchup, and I'm starting to get the hang of it. It is an awesome program for our hobby...a picture speaks a thousand words, so here's a few:

The uprights will be collapsible and the whole winch can be dropped down for storage or a lower profile if necessary. Overall, the rig should be about ~6ft tall and collapse down to ~4 ft. It will be 2 feet wide and ~2-3 ft deep.

I'm still figuring out the plumbing, but it will probably incorporate a 20 gallon kettle with 3/4" bottom drain, and a little giant pump.

Any thoughts?

I've seen B-K's 120VAC countertop style rigs, and though I still want to be able to do 10gal batches, I think this could be scaled down very easily and cost a lot less $$$. It definitely has my wheels turning.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Looks awesome. Great ninja. How tall is he? He looks like he is 6' 6", you must be tall.

Sweet

 

[ScubaSteve]

Ha, I'm 6' but a ninja can blend into any environment I had issues scaling the figure...the rig itself is right at 5'...of course there will be some variance in real life due to casters, plumbing requirements, etc. I figure it's pretty self explanatory, still a work in progress. My concept I'm building this rig around is to be able to do EVERYTHING the bigger rigs can do, but with a single vessel and minimum cleanup.

 

[BoilerInSoCal]

Steve,
That is pretty sweet. I was compiling my parts to do a JKarp style countertop system (but with a toolbox pump + controller)...and then stumbled onto this thread. I really like this idea. However, I am one of those who only have 120V, and really, I only want/need to do 5 gal (or less) batches...because I like variety, but am the only beer drinker in the house.

I am wondering, what size kettle/basket combo do you think would work best for 5 gal batches? The basket in the 62 qt. would have plenty of room for any gravity beer, but my concern would be that for smaller gravity brews, the grain might not go low enough in the kettle to mash properly. On the other hand, the basket that comes with the 44 qt. might not be large enough for bigger beers.

Maybe I should consider adding a second 2000W element, doing 8 gal batches, no chill, split into 5 gal Winpaks, ferment one, and save the other for a few months? Doing this three or four times would give me a nice variety rotation. Hmmmm.

Sorry for going a little OT there. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Not OT at all....I've been thinking along the same lines. You could essentially do what I describe above, only smaller. I'm not sure what pot would be best....Bakins mentioned using a similar system...maybe he might comment on his experience. My calculations have the basket in the 62 qt Bayou Classic at 9.75 gallons. That gives you some flexibility. You'd have a few inches dead space at the bottom with any size pot, but you'd need it for the element anyway. I guess you could go with the 44qt basket and add DME for the biggest of beers. I think your limiting factor is the 120VAC, as you won't be able to boil more than ~4 gallons....but I'm thinking 4 gallons might be perfect for fermenting in a corny and using a spunding valve to self carbonate, then transfer under pressure.

Lots of ways to go about this. You could go small and brew more frequently with available 120VAC (cleanup MUST be simple or this will become a chore), or you can go bigger but you need 220VAC. I have 220 for my stove and in my laundry room, so I'm thinking about going big with an 80-100qt pot. From now on, I just can't move into a house that doesn't have 220

 

[Ace_Club]

I really like this idea and have been perusing the net looking at different parts. I especially like the bottom dump valve idea but am wondering how you are going to install it? It would be nice to have it a weldless fitting (since I don't weld), but that would mean you would need to somehow make the bottom of the BK concave so that it would drain as much of the wort as possible.

Any thoughts?

 

[wyzazz]

Just a thought but you could use a Sanke keg, turn it upside-down, and attach a 2" tri-clover fitting to it for the dump valve. If you like the idea of using a keggle that is.

 

[ScubaSteve]

You could go the sankey route, or you could silver solder a half coupling into the bottom. I plan to do the latter. You want it flush with the bottom, and a weldless fitting will stick up a bit. One concern I have is with the laminated bottom of the pot, which has an aluminum core....I think the silver solder should stick to the stainless on either side of the bottom, but I'm not sure. Alternatively, you could use JB weld and just wipe the edges for a clean install. That stuff will withstand the temps, and should be leak free as long as you're not beating the plumbing up.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Just a thought but you could use a Sanke keg, turn it upside-down, and attach a 2" tri-clover fitting to it for the dump valve. If you like the idea of using a keggle that is.

I have 3 sankes, and my first instinct was to use what I already have, but I don't know that there is a big enough basket that will fit down there. All the 60qt ones are ~17inches wide, while a keg has a diameter of 15-16 inches. You'd have to custom fab something, or use a bag....which will require a bit more maintenance than a solid metal basket.

 

[wyzazz]

I have 3 sankes, and my first instinct was to use what I already have, but I don't know that there is a big enough basket that will fit down there. All the 60qt ones are ~17inches wide, while a keg has a diameter of 15-16 inches. You'd have to custom fab something, or use a bag....which will require a bit more maintenance than a solid metal basket.

Maybe just fab up a frame for the basket and then use the Swiss Voile fabric or a SS Screen around that frame? It would be like the steamer basket only slightly less solid and get slightly more flow through the basket. Maybe even make it out of some sort of small rigid SS tubing.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I figure you'd have to do something like this, as I haven't seen any "narrow" baskets. They're all short and fat, like the pots. You could probably score a turkey fryer pot for cheap and drill it out.....I'm pretty sure they will fit down in a keg. You could also look at copper or SS sheet, and fab a basket out of that.....

EDIT: Looks like a 62 qt bayou classic basket is 14" in diameter and should fit inside a keg if the top is cut wide enough. The basket is somewhere around 10 gallons in volume.

 

[wyzazz]

I guess there's a million and a half ways to approach this, none of them are right or wrong.

I'm planning on making a single vessel system based on your ideas, so when I gather the parts I'll report back and start a thread to outline my progress.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Hey all- Check this place out: http://www.anysizebasket.com/Default.aspx

The baskets are a little pricey (mine was ~$140 and fit down in a keg, 14"x18") , but they're quality. You can get them custom made to your dimensions in 304 SS.

I already have kegs and large pots, so I would actually save money from having to go out and buy a whole new vessel with a basket, mesh, etc..

 

[wyzazz]

Nice! If you order let me know how you like it!

 

[scratchypants]

You guys have seen this, right?

 

[wyzazz]

Yup, lots of dough for that one though.

 

[newkarian]

Check this out. Dont know how much theyd cost though.

http://www.eysters.com/baskets.html

 

[ScubaSteve]

Yup, lots of dough for that one though.

Amen to that. It's nice, but it's still the same basic design we're talking about here. A pot, basket, and a pump. A BCS-460 is way more capable than the simple PID/timer unit the Speidel uses, and even if you added swagelok and triclover fittings, and used a blichmann boilermaker, you'd still be at about 50% of the cost of a Spiedel. To each his own, I guess.....for me a big part of the fun of brewing is learning new things and building stuff.

One thing I noticed about the Speidel, is that it has bolts on the side of the basket...they hold it up on a flip-down "rail". You could potentially eliminate the winch.

Funny thing is, the Aussies had this same discussion 4 years ago! :http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11046

 

[ScubaSteve]

There's some cool (but way overpriced) European systems on this page: http://www.brouwland.com/setframes/?l=&to=http%3A//www.brouwland.com/shop/product.asp%3Fcfid%3D28%26id%3D2547%26xin%3D%26src%3Dpump%26dt%3D21&shwlnk=0

Like us, it looks like the Europeans are using 2000w elements for their 5 gallon countertop systems. That 200L Speidel Braumeister looks more or less like what B-K and others have been thinking about in terms of the hoist.

*I wonder if it's possible to make a countertop 8-10 gallon system? How would you integrate 2x2000W elements in a streamlined way? Would you have to plug the unit into each side of the kitchen and have a mess of cords? I think it would be cool to still use 120VAC but go a bit bigger than the SIMPLE and CB20......

 

[scratchypants]

Yup, lots of dough for that one though.

Compared to the JerBrew spreadsheet, not that much more.

I'm all for designing and building your own system. I derive as much pleasure from tinkering with equipment as brewing and drinking beer. It's the acquisition of components that drives me batty. Being up here, it means either a 3 hour round trip to some specialty store or getting nailed with shipping/duty/brokerage.

The Speidel would certainly get a good bit of my attention if was to go this route.

EDIT: I just reread the spreadsheet, the $1500 total includes $500 worth of non-related brewing equipment. So yeah, about $1000 cheaper. Still, sourcing the parts, labour, and the real likelihood of me f'ing something up...

 

[ScubaSteve]

Yeah, it's time consuming and can be a PITA to build something yourself. I think Speidel needs to knock about $1000 off their system before people take them seriously. $2000 is a lot of money, and you're really just buying a large pot with a burner and PID. As an example, most of us build our own kegerators because the price of a commercial kegerator is ridiculous, they are pretty simple to make, and the results are great.

Anyway, that's all I'll say about that. Moving on.

The Aussies were trying to figure out how to "bling up" a BIAB setup and turned me on to this:

 

[wyzazz]

Now you sound like Yuri!

 

[cyberbackpacker]

scubasteve and others, check out this thread in the classifieds: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/custom-mash-tun-161223/#post1861136

It may be a GREAT solution to this; and my idea for the inner "basket" use a 1/4" sankey with the bottom completely cut out and a sheet of perforated stainless steel welded to the bottom.

The dimensions of the 1/4 keg would fit with room as far as diameter, and the height would leave the 1/4 keg at almost the exact same height as the main vessel.

These are all just quick thoughts but I see lots of possibilities here!

EDIT: and if the bottom of the 1/4 keg were removed, the yield would be in excess of 10 gallons, and over 13 if you went to the top of the keg (welded handle holes closed, have wire screen/mesh covering them).

 

[ScubaSteve]

Interesting. So you'd use the black wheeled mash tun as your BK? It would probably work, I'd just want to see how the plastic holds up for the boil......

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Yes, my thought is to use the black mash tun as the BK. I would not use the wheeled base that comes with it; I will construct my own.

The vendor is supposed to be checking with the engineer, and if it is supposed to hold up to boiling temps, I am going to pull the trigger on one and try it.

After some measuring and rethinking, I think if I am to try this I will actually use a 1/2 barrel sankey for the inner "grain cylinder" as speidels call it I believe. Using a 1/4 sankey would require too much welding for someone that will have to farm that part out-- i.e. meaning me.

Using a 1/2 barrel my thoughts are to cut off the top and bottom at the welds. This will leave a perfectly intact cylinder only requiring the perf sheet false bottom to be welded on-- no holes to fill-- and yield just a bit under 13 gallons (12.9... gallons).

This development has me quite excited, but I am reserving judgment until I see the specs in regards to boiling temps.

If that doesn't work out, I may still pull the trigger and simply use it in the same manner as described, except in a brutus 20 type setup instead, and just use it as a direct-fired electric MLT.

 

[wyzazz]

@cyberpacker - let us know what is said about the boiling temps, if it holds up I may just pick up 2!

 

[cyberbackpacker]

If it is good structurally at boiling temps and maintains FDA goodness, I will be picking up one and maybe even if it cannot maintain structural integrity.

Regardless, I will let you all know what I find out.