Sign of Infection?

[rodwha]

After a couple of weeks I’ve noticed that if I pry the top and let it sit for a minute some of them will slowly build a little ring of bubbles that tend to slowly grow. And I’ve now noticed these little kruesen rings in the bottles. A sign of infection?

 

[Cro Magnon]

Hey did you use DME as priming sugar by any chance? I'm still a complete noob but I heard if you use DME to prime, it will form a krausen ring on top....kind of like a mini-version of your fermenter. I may be misunderstanding your problem though..

 

[AJinJacksonville]

How does it taste?

How long did you let them condition?

Is there a layer of dead yeast on the bottom of the bottle?

 

[rodwha]

I did not use DME to prime. I use cane sugar.

They taste fine, and not all seem to do this. I tossed my old bottles and started over again less than a year ago, but had a batch with floating cranberries turn to serious gushers just after Christmas. Those bottles are still in the mix. I clean them with OxyClean.

My typical routine is to ferment at 65* for a week, pull it and let it sit at room temp (75*) for 2 weeks before I bottle (this was dry hopped for a week). After bottling they condition for 3 weeks before I put some in the fridge. They may have sat for another two weeks in the closet before I opened one and let it sit before I poured, which I don’t usually do, but do now to see.

Yes, their is yeast sediment on the bottoms of the bottles.

These hit FG and some (anticipated 1.011 and observed 1.006, though these were dosed with ghost pepper extract using 50/50 Everclear watered down) so it couldn’t be too much additional fermentation, though sitting for 3 weeks should have given plenty of time to finish I’d think.

Checking my notes I bottles these on 7-9 so I’m guessing this is just getting started. I decided to put the rest in the fridge a few days ago in hopes of slowing it down. I hate wasting beer.

 

[AJinJacksonville]

Hmmmm...do you cold crash prior to taking it out to rest before bottling? Is there visible stuff floating in the beer when you go to bottle? And you're sure the bottles were thoroughly cleaned/sanitized prior to bottling (not insulting your intelligence or methods-but just trying to rule that out). I can tell you that on bottling days (now I'm usually just kegging) I've come across some bottles that still have gunk from last time or whoever gave them to me. Those usually go into the recycling bin.

 

[rodwha]

It just dawned on me that my measurement of 1.006 was prior to adding the extract (added it after reading the hydrometer).

I do not cold crash (I hate jacking with the STC-1000 settings).

I cannot say whether or not there were flow ties in this, but I’ve certainly seen some in prior batches, along with really crazy stuff, so seeing things no longer bothers me that much.

Not taken as an insult . I am 100% certain each bottle is scrubbed with OxyClean prior to being put up, and I use a slightly stronger than suggested Star San soaking and for much longer than the 60 seconds they state. I like to be more than certain this side is taken care of. They do sit on the bottling tree for up to hours prior to bottling though.

Like you, if I find stuff in the bottom that’s been sitting in the bottom, they get recycled.

 

[AJinJacksonville]

After initially setting up the ITC-1000, that's the only thing I've messed with is the actual temp setting...haha. Once you do it a couple of times, it's like riding a bike.

I'm going to look through a few bottles of mine sitting in a pantry that I haven't touched in awhile to see if there are any such rings. The only things I could think of would have to do with incomplete fermentation...so the yeast had what was left and the bottling sugar...and they went back to work. But not enough to cause any bottle bombs. But if you're saying the FG was on target, it shouldn't have caused that much to happen where it would leave a ring.

 

[rodwha]

Yeah, I have a hard time believing they weren’t finished fermenting.

And honestly I guess I can’t say they taste right either. I bought a couple of pounds of HBC-342 hops as they were discontinuing them. I’ve made melon-like pale ales and loved them so I tried an IPA. It didn’t end up super hop flavorful as I figured. And adding the ghost pepper extract may well be tainting the flavor. To me it comes off murky tasting and then the hit of spice.

I made his little brother (unfortunately in the same fermenter) right after. I decided to cut the time back to 2 weeks by 2 weeks so as to hopefully reduce any time the taint has to become noticeable. Outside of not being as strong and not containing the pepper extract it is somewhat similar (used a fair amount of cane sugar to thin the body). At that time I’ll be able to better tell if this one tastes off or not maybe.

 

[Cro Magnon]

Sorry to digress...I'm really interested in the floating cranberries! If you could point me to another thread if you have more info up would be great!

 

[Cro Magnon]

Also curious....the gushers you mentioned..how many weeks were those sitting for and how many volumes did you prime for? Also how do you know the difference between a bad 'gusher' (as a sign of infection) and a normal, healthy carbonation/overflow when you open a bottle?

 

[rodwha]

Also curious....the gushers you mentioned..how many weeks were those sitting for and how many volumes did you prime for? Also how do you know the difference between a bad 'gusher' (as a sign of infection) and a normal, healthy carbonation/overflow when you open a bottle?

I’ll look back and see if I created a thread on that. What are you interested in just in case I can’t find anything?

I generally ferment all of my <8% beers for 3 weeks and condition them for another 3 weeks. I can’t say for sure how long it took them to seriously gush, but I’d venture to guess maybe another 3 weeks at best. I’m talking pop the top and within seconds it’s beginning to reach the mouth of the bottle.

This was to be a Christmas IPA so it would have been the typical 2.4 volumes.

I’ve never had a bottle overflow that wasn’t an issue. They should spew. However I never used to pop the top and allow it time to possibly gush. Now I’ve been watching for a couple of seconds to see what happens. A normal beer shouldn’t do much more than produce a little ring of bubbles at best from what I understand.

 

[rodwha]

Sorry to digress...I'm really interested in the floating cranberries! If you could point me to another thread if you have more info up would be great!

Thought I had since using cranberries or spruce tips were new to me:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/cranberry-and-spruce-tip-ipa.671226/

 

[Cro Magnon]

I’ll look back and see if I created a thread on that. What are you interested in just in case I can’t find anything?

I generally ferment all of my <8% beers for 3 weeks and condition them for another 3 weeks. I can’t say for sure how long it took them to seriously gush, but I’d venture to guess maybe another 3 weeks at best. I’m talking pop the top and within seconds it’s beginning to reach the mouth of the bottle.

This was to be a Christmas IPA so it would have been the typical 2.4 volumes.

I’ve never had a bottle overflow that wasn’t an issue. They should spew. However I never used to pop the top and allow it time to possibly gush. Now I’ve been watching for a couple of seconds to see what happens. A normal beer shouldn’t do much more than produce a little ring of bubbles at best from what I understand.

AH man....thanks a lot for offering to help a fish out...I'm sorry..I feel like this is a hijack of your thread!

Well basically two things:

1) With gushers - From what you described a healthy carbonation should be...as long as the bottles weren't vigorously agitated, then if they gush, they are probably infected? Cos I was wondering how you'd know the difference but then, if you KNOW your beers have been sitting still in your cupboard with no way to be agitated, and if they still gush then...infection?

2) I live in a really hot climate....like 45 C at the peak of summer...It's about 35C now. So,other local homebrewers told me to just leave the bottles to carbonate for a mere 3-4 days...and it's worked so far (this is purely for carbonation purposes.....not taking into consideration flavour development etc) What are your thoughts on this? Is is fine or should I still leave it for 3 weeks regardless of the climate?

 

[bracconiere]

now i'm wondering.....is this normal? poured out of a keg at 8 PSI, with 12' of 1/4" beer line.......

and damn, i wouldn't be worried about bubbles, that glass looks really clear to be in that much light! you trying to make heinekien?

 

[rodwha]

AH man....thanks a lot for offering to help a fish out...I'm sorry..I feel like this is a hijack of your thread!

Well basically two things:

1) With gushers - From what you described a healthy carbonation should be...as long as the bottles weren't vigorously agitated, then if they gush, they are probably infected? Cos I was wondering how you'd know the difference but then, if you KNOW your beers have been sitting still in your cupboard with no way to be agitated, and if they still gush then...infection?

2) I live in a really hot climate....like 45 C at the peak of summer...It's about 35C now. So,other local homebrewers told me to just leave the bottles to carbonate for a mere 3-4 days...and it's worked so far (this is purely for carbonation purposes.....not taking into consideration flavour development etc) What are your thoughts on this? Is is fine or should I still leave it for 3 weeks regardless of the climate?

I’m not too concerned about any hijacking

Yes, my understanding is that if they are gushing it’s likely an infection unless they’re just way over carbonated.

Your second question is one I can’t say I know the answer to, but what I do know is that the warmer it is the faster things develop. It’s why I put the rest of my beer in the fridge hoping it would slow the progress down, assuming these are indeed infected.

Most people don’t use the timeframes I do. But I’ve had an IPA taste very much like a common one for the first week and some, but then completely changed. And I’ve tried 2 beers to see if I could make something lower gravity and simple ready within 31 days for those times you’re told there’ll be family coming. What I found was one was good enough but not quite mature and the other, a honey wheat, was not so good and needed more time. These were simple recipes and I’ve all too often read of people claiming a beer like that should be ready sooner than that. I’ve not observed this. I’d rather have my first beer ideal and ready, especially if I might be sharing it. I say that and yet this next beer will be given just 31 days...

 

[rodwha]

now i'm wondering.....is this normal? poured out of a keg at 8 PSI, with 12' of 1/4" beer line.......

View attachment 693041


and damn, i wouldn't be worried about bubbles, that glass looks really clear to be in that much light! you trying to make heinekien?

It’s not thin, it’s just the LED lights. It’s likely a Sierra Nevada bottle.

 

[rodwha]

So is this not necessarily a sign of infection?

 

[Cro Magnon]

I’m not too concerned about any hijacking

Yes, my understanding is that if they are gushing it’s likely an infection unless they’re just way over carbonated.

Your second question is one I can’t say I know the answer to, but what I do know is that the warmer it is the faster things develop. It’s why I put the rest of my beer in the fridge hoping it would slow the progress down, assuming these are indeed infected.

Most people don’t use the timeframes I do. But I’ve had an IPA taste very much like a common one for the first week and some, but then completely changed. And I’ve tried 2 beers to see if I could make something lower gravity and simple ready within 31 days for those times you’re told there’ll be family coming. What I found was one was good enough but not quite mature and the other, a honey wheat, was not so good and needed more time. These were simple recipes and I’ve all too often read of people claiming a beer like that should be ready sooner than that. I’ve not observed this. I’d rather have my first beer ideal and ready, especially if I might be sharing it. I say that and yet this next beer will be given just 31 days...

Thanks a lot that helps a lot. I guess I should at least factor some reduction in carbonation time because of the hot climate. I guess beyond that it will have a lot to do with the style, as you mentioned. Whatever little brewing I've done so far has been ready sooner than whatever I've been told...again probably the climate. But then again, I have no reference to judge whether it would have been BETTER if I had let it ferment and/or bottle condition longer. Thanks a lot anyway. And hope your beer turns out infection free!

 

[Cro Magnon]

Ok I noticed something similar today in my stout which has been sitting in bottles at room temp for 1 week. Not eactly a krausen ring but a 'cloudy' ring at the liquid level, along the sides of the bottle...It was too slight so the moment I picked up the bottles the beer washed it away. It's a stout so too dark to tell if anything is wrong. Any thoughts?

 

[rodwha]

Hmmmm... That I could not say. I’ve actually not paid much attention to what things look like in a long time. I’ve seen funky stuff and all was well and normal.

 

[Cro Magnon]

hmmm...guess it should be fine...not big enough of a symptom to be worried about, as far as bad signs go I suppose.

 

[rodwha]

I’ve had some beers that would acquire a dried fruit-like flavor after about 3 weeks. The best I could come up with was aeration. I’d often lose interest after it became noticeable. I set some aside for SWMBO to cook with in the pantry. She forgot them and way later opened one, which gushed. Might an infection produce a flavor like that?

So here I am drinking another one of these recent beers that slowly foam in the bottle and I can’t say I really detect a difference between the others, but then the heat is fairly pronounced (not overly burning) and so I wonder if it’s masking flavors. It’s acting as though it’s just over carbonated, but I’ve not had this happen before, and always give a good stir after siphoning. I’m perplexed...

I tossed my old buckets and got spigots ( I still them up above the trub line) to do away with siphoning, though I still have the old bottling bucket.